What are the chances?
Senator Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania, was in Islamabad with Rep. Patrick J. Kennedy, Democrat of Rhode Island, on a previously scheduled trip and preparing to meet Ms. Bhutto at 9 p.m. Thursday night when the news of the bombing broke. They watched the news unfold on television in their hotel, with initial reports that she escaped injury giving way to confirmation of her death.
Assassination follows the Kennedy family around in an uncanny way.
There are a lot of things at stake in Pakistan and, unfortunately, I have been disappointed by what I’ve heard from every single politician today, save one. Sen. Chris Dodd was on Countdown with Keith Olbermann tonight and he showed very sound judgment. Pakistan cannot go ahead with its elections, yet the Bush administration, Edwards, Biden, Obama, Clinton, and the Republicans all advocated that they do. Not Dodd. Dodd sensibly called for a delay so that Benazir Bhutto’s party can regroup.
I understand why the players wanted to express support for democracy in Pakistan, and also why they wanted America to speak with one voice. It’s critical that America discontinue its reliance on Musharraf, and we need a legitimately elected partner if we are ever going to make progress in tamping down terrorism from the region. But there is no reason for Pakistan to go ahead with the regularly scheduled elections. Nawaz Sharif’s party will boycott and Bhutto is dead. The elections would be meaningless and add no credibility at all to the government.
Here’s something else to think about. Naturally, everyone is telling Musharraf to permit an international investigatory team to enter Pakistan to ascertain what happened and who is responsible for the assassination. Of course, this is unlikely. Either directly or through neglect, Musharraf is suspected of complicity in the murder. He is going to keep control of the investigation. And it shows how deep our problems are that we don’t particularly care whether Musharraf had Bhutto killed or not. If we discovered that he did, it would not be in our interests to let anyone know that. Basically, we are so reliant on Musharraf that he can murder his political opponents with impunity, even when those political opponents are our allies. Why is this?
The first reason is that we are reliant on Pakistan for our (and NATO’s) supply lines to Afghanistan. To a lesser extent, we’d like their assistance and cooperation in hunting down bad guys on the border and tribal regions.
The second reason is their nuclear stockpile, which we rightfully will not allow to fall into the hands of anyone sympathetic to the cause of al-Qaeda.
For both these reasons, the nation will go to war to prevent the dissolution of the Pakistani state. India is also prepared to take preemptive action under certain circumstances. The Natural Resources Defense Council has researched possible outcomes of a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India (h/t to Alice). And here is what they have to say about one probable scenario:
NRDC calculated that 22.1 million people in India and Pakistan would be exposed to lethal radiation doses of 600 rem or more in the first two days after the attack. Another 8 million people would receive a radiation dose of 100 to 600 rem, causing severe radiation sickness and potentially death, especially for the very young, old or infirm. NRDC calculates that as many as 30 million people would be threatened by the fallout from the attack, roughly divided between the two countries.
Besides fallout, blast and fire would cause substantial destruction within roughly a mile-and-a-half of the bomb craters. NRDC estimates that 8.1 million people live within this radius of destruction.
Most Indians (99 percent of the population) and Pakistanis (93 percent of the population) would survive the second scenario. Their respective military forces would be still be intact to continue and even escalate the conflict.
The Soviet Union lost roughly 20 million people in World War Two. That number of people could die in two days if the nukes start flying on the subcontinent. It’s hard to exaggerate how important stability is to the region. This is not a place to roll the dice on elections like we did in Palestine, Lebanon, and Iraq. Elections that bring stability are good. Elections that have no legitimacy or that lead to civil war are bad and should not be pushed for flawed ideological reasons.
There are short and long term strategies that need to be thought out and combined insofar as possible. Our long term policy has to be affordable in dollars. And it has to involve rolling back our forward basing strategy that has led to so much blowback. Yet, in the short-term we have troops in harms way in Afghanistan and we must do all we can to keep Pakistan’s nuclear weapons from getting into the wrong hands.
In the long-term we need to share more responsibility for non-proliferation and we can best protect ourselves by not causing incitement. No one is going to take a loose nuke and detonate it in Olso or Montevideo. That’s because Uruguay and Norway don’t base their troops in 144 countries and invade other countries on false pretenses. We must stop making people want to kill us if we want to be safe.
But, in the short-term we do not have the luxury of changing our basing strategy…we need to keep a powder keg from going off that could easily require a military draft and total mobilization of the country, and that could, with some bad breaks, result in a nuclear shooting war costing tens of millions of people their lives and doing severe damage to environment.
I think it’s obvious that we need to get our troops out of Iraq as quickly as possible.
These are just some initial thoughts from a guy who warned you that things might come to this.
Terrifying is the word. China may get involved along it’s border, too.
But what if that is not Cheney’s true goal? Increased terrorism and instability over there creates a justification for never-ending war (profiteering too) and further justification for
hard-line dictators– ahem – unitary executives both there and here who will give business to the multinational corporations and also keep all of us little people living in fear in order to keep their parties in power. It’s a win-win in their minds.The problem is that this Cheney mindset is so foreign to any decent human being that we try to convince ourselves that their plans to introduce “Democracy and Freedom” were well-intentioned in the first place. Some of the more jaded might think that these plans were designed to fail and thereby “prove” that concepts like these are impossible in that “savage part of the world, with their crazy religion, etc.”
I read something over at Digby’s pad today where she referenced an older WaPo article that showed Pakistan policy matters were being diverted from the State Department and directly to the OVP. I am not surprised.
And in case people aren’t “jaded enough,” go see “No End In Sight.” It’s available for free viewing at Google Video.
It is difficult to see from here whether or not we should postpone elections. The election wasn’t postponed will Wellstone died, nor was it in Spain after the 3/11 bombings.
In a parliamentary system, the elections can go on without the leader of the party. It may even boost support for Bhutto’s party as a show of support.
What delegitimizes the election is that the other opposition party is threatening to boycott them, and many do not trust Musharraf to run free and fair elections.
Let us assume for the sake of argument that Musharraf is complicit in this assassination, he does not want the elections to go forward as he is uncertain if the results will be good for him. Now he can postpone the elections because of this national tragedy and he gets what he wants in terms of an eliminated opponent and postponed democracy.
Would you advocate for postponing our election if there was an assassination or terrorist attack in the late days of October 2008? If they were postponed would you have confidence that they would be rescheduled?
Let’s not compare this situation to a domestic one.
We would like a nice pro-western prime minister that is popularly elected. In no other country I can think of (within Islam) is that a possibility, but in Pakistan it is (was).
That’s gone now. Musharraf would love to have the elections because his party will basically be the only one on the ticket. Pushing him to have them is idiotic. But then our politicians are idiots.
Your examples are irrelevant. Pakistan is currently a dictatorship, so postponing the election won’t change anything for the worse. We cannot risk either an election that results in a government that will cut off our supply line or that is untrustworthy with their nukes. Nor can we risk anarchy. And we can’t let anything happen that could risk intervention from India (or, conceivably, Israel).
In other words, our interest in elections is quite limited. In this case, the election was poised to help us so we were encouraging it.
Principle has nothing to do with anything in this situation. This is a potential disaster of unprecedented proportions and we have to deal with it in a brutally realistic way.
Still…our medium range interests remain to promote elections, which should favor moderates.
But if we forget who runs Pakistan and who wants to run it, we’ll find ourselves in a situation so dangerous that even you might volunteer to garrison Karachi.
Well, if
are you saying that he’s nuts and that even with only his party on the ticket he’ll lose??
Because unless you’re saying that, then this
doesn’t make sense.
If having the election means he’ll be elected and in charge and if not having the election means he’ll stay in charge – the end result is the same isn’t it? So why not have elections?
If our interest is to postpone the elections so that we can make sure that our chosen candidate (someone who will be a pro-western prime minister) wins – who is our chosen candidate now? How long will it take us to figure that out? And when will he/she be ready to actually WIN an election? If not for a couple years – again, why not just have elections and let him win for the time being?
Musharraf isn’t on the ticket.
He doesn’t win or lose, his political allies win or lose.
Step back for a second. Why are they having these elections at all? It’s because the Western Powers are concerned that Musharraf is not a stable ruler. We want to confer some legitimacy on him. The idea was to force him to have these elections, which would weaken him in the sense that his allies would lose, but would strengthen him through added legitimacy and a new power sharing arrangement.
If they have the elections and only hardliners and religious nuts win, it won’t grant any legitimacy and it won’t improve the situation in any way.
The whole purpose of the elections has been lost.
Remember, nothing can happen in Pakistan that the army doesn’t approve. They were willing to agree to elections (unless they’re behind the assassination) but they reserve the right to overturn any election they don’t like.
Musharraf wouldn’t mind being forced into holding elections because his allies would win and it would get us off his back for a little while. But we have no legitimate reason to want elections right now. Yet, all the politicians say otherwise.
What is the risk to us if they hold elections?
we have an interest in an actual free and fair election that will probably empower people that might be considered centrist Republicans (chamber of commerce, small business, educated, social liberals/moderates). We don’t have an interest in an election that elects Pakistani nationalists (think Curtis LeMay), religious fundamentalists (think armed and suicidal followers of Pat Robertson) and that has zero legitimacy with the people.
We have one overriding interest in Pakistan…stability. The stability is needed to sustain a working relationship so that our troops in Afghanistan are not put at risk, so that we can hunt for bad guys, so India doesn’t freak out, and so the nuclear stockpile is in safe hands.
We don’t want an election that empowers our enemies, nor one that causes internal instability, or civil war, or that makes India jumpy.
The risks of a bad election are almost unimaginable. Nuclear war…for one.
Fortunately, no one in Pakistan wants or expects an election right now.
I think my question was more along the lines of “What is the risk that if an election occurs it will be a bad election (for us)?” And I mean bad as opposed to simply not productive.
Again, this comes from your statement that Musharrif would love to have elections. I’m assuming from that statement that you think that he thinks it would not be a bad election (for him).
My thought on the politicians in the U.S. pushing for elections is this: If you are a serious contender for elected office you have to be consistent. If you are going to pretend to the public that a military dictatorship is a democracy then you have to pretend to the public that you think elections should go on, no matter what. Then you act Really Sad when they don’t happen. What you really think isn’t relevant to the charade.
I know that sometimes my emphasis on the process of politics clashes with your emphasis of on-the-ground reality – but both are important. I don’t believe there are going to be elections, nor should there be elections. But I understand from a process point of view why all Serious presidential candidates have to call for them. Because none of them has taken the time to really talk about the problems of Pakistan in this election and a few days before the Iowa caucuses is not the time to start confusing voters who don’t follow these things. Sad but true.
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Pakistan’s new Supreme Court has – as expected – dismissed the final legal challenge to the recent re-election of President Pervez Musharraf. The move clears the way for the general to resign as army chief, as promised, and be sworn in as a civilian leader.
President Musharraf is widely believed to have declared the 3 November state of emergency in order to purge the Supreme Court that he suspected was about to rule against his re-election, says the BBC’s Barbara Plett in Islamabad.
● Pakistan General Election News 2007-2008
● Election Commission of Pakistan
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
The point of comparing the situation to a domestic one is to ask ourselves what we would want if we were Pakistanis.
Musharraf’s party would not be the only one on the ticket Butto’s party would also be on the ticket. It seems that the PPP does not have any heirs apparent, but the party itself is still intact if grieving.
From The Guardian:
My thought is that if elections were to happen soon, then the PPP would emerge victorious. That would trigger a struggle for control of the party, but also severely weaken Musharraf’s grip on power. We have been pushing very hard for these elections, I have trouble letting the dictator off of the hook because an assassination occurred. I think that the most relevant analogy is the Spanish elections they went as planned and the progressives won.
In the next few days we will find out what is best for Musharraf by seeing what he decides to do. My guess is that he will postpone the election in hopes that his opponents’ power will fade.
we don’t want to weaken Musharraf, but strengthen him. Have you missed the whole tenor of U.S.-Pakistani relations?
Luam, you seem to be under the misapprehension that anyone gives a shit what is good for Pakistanis. The only interests being considered here are American ones.
“The only interests being considered here are American ones.”
Sadly, this is true. In the narrowest sense of the word.
It does not matter what policy choice is made: Blowback is inevitable. The (narrow) context in which the choice is made is what causes this.
I am under the probably mistaken belief that the average reader of this blog cares what happens to Pakistan. I also believe that the long term best interests of the US often align with increased freedom and democracy abroad.
It we are talking about our interests, then I am not convinced that they align with the President of Pakistan’s as closely as they align with the people of Pakistan.
I also think that saying they should have elections is a good negotiating strategy. I am also glad that many of our politicians are on record as saying that they should hold elections despite terror. That is a good thing in case, god forbid, something similar happens elsewhere.
Chances are Musharaf will not not be willing to risk elections but by us calling for them, it strengthens our case for pushing for them again later. I fear that they may be indefinitely postponed or strategically postponed until his opposition is at its weakest. The latter is a common tactic in nations with parliamentary government where the party in power can decide when elections should be held.
Sharif is next. Musharraf is no fool. He can’t afford to let the ol’ gravy train from Uncle Sam stop…so he “welcomes” the return of the old guard under intense U.S. pressure…always with the aim of handling it (his opposition) once they’ve arrived. I can just see Musharraf nursing a whiskey and chuckling that “we will pin it on the islamists.”
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See my new diary – After Bhutto, A nation in crisis
and The Rise of the Neo Taliban
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
Bush has said that he is bereaved and shocked. Most of the candidates vying for sound-bites have said that they are shocked and bereaved. Not a peep from the Secretary of State?
If Mushy is so damned important to prop up and Pakistan is increasingly unstable and nuclear war (on someone else’s timetable) is a possibility, then surely our diplomatic team ought to utter some expression of sympathy and concern as they head towards the airport.
Was Bhutto herself Muslim? If so, she’d be buried by sundown rather than having a coffin laid out where lines of mourners could turn into an ugly mob. Since “martyrdom” is already spoken of, the sooner emotions get channeled into something other than vengence, the better. Aren’t high level diplomats supposed to offer counseling and statesmanship at such times?
Even if Condi herself is still shoe-shopping or trying out dominatrix gear or taking refresher piano lessons, she can still have a spokeperson convey her regrets and that a team of advisors is being gathered to help keep the region stable.
Otherwise, getting our armed forces out of Afghanistan might be a lot messier than it should be.
Even the dumbest crooks know to have a getaway car waiting, the route analyzed, and a meeting place set up in case things go wrong. Condi isn’t dumb.
I was wondering that too. Where is Condi the Incompetent? We haven’t seen or heard from her in what seems like ages, and you’d think they would at least trot her out for this event. She is still our nominal Secretary of State, right? She was our National Security Advisor at one time too…and now she’s just AWOL.
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“And so the intelligence community had let it be known that they had some interesting new leads about what might have happened in the Iranian nuclear program on the weaponization side.” And I want to just emphasize this was about weaponization, not about the enrichment and reprocessing and not about the missile program, but that they had some interesting new leads, but that those leads needed to be pursued, followed up, they wanted to do a careful analysis, and then when that careful analysis was done, it was presented to the National Security principals. That wasn’t very long before the NIE was made public.”
Nuclear Fallout: Bush’s Iran Debacle
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
Booman wrote: “Pakistan cannot go ahead with its elections, yet the Bush administration, Edwards, Biden, Obama, Clinton, and the Republicans all advocated that they do. Not Dodd. Dodd sensibly called for a delay so that Benazir Bhutto’s party can regroup.”
And further down he wrote: “we want to strengthen Musharaf”.
I say: WTF do you, Booman, know about what Pakistan can, or cannot do? In a moment of clarity, you will admit: practically nothing.
And I say: When will the US learn to stay out of Pakistan’s internal affairs? When will the US learn that it is the occupation of Afghanistan and the “War on Terror” that is creating a situation where US support has become a mark of death? I say: Yankee, stop poisoning the well and go home! And that goes for you too Booman!
Think about it: just because you are American you feel it is a legitimate activity for you to daydream about the security of “the world” and to breathlessly advocate and opinionate about a country which is (a) not yours and (b) you know know practically nothing about.
Not that you are alone. Oh no, you have such varied and wonderful company. You wank, they bomb, but you go hand in hand.
This tells me: American Imperial Hubris is alive and well. The learning curve remains flat.
(Don’t take this personally Boo…).
Blowback-C Johnson. Read it!
Where Have All the Flowers Gone?- Listen to it!
is laudable. Getting people in power to advocate it will not be easy. I can here the cries of “appeasment” coming from the moronic rabble.
I’m not sure what it is you’re suggesting for the short term. Keeping the “powder keg” from going off is, I believe, not our place. It might have been a job for the UN, but nobody’s seen them lately. Our direct intervention would be seen around the world as more American force being used to protect American interests in other people’s countries.
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Left blogs on fire, read Larry Johnson
According to Senator Obama’s spokesman, David Axelrod:
“Obviously, one of the reasons that Pakistan is in the distress that it’s in is because al-Qaeda is resurgent, has become more powerful within that country and that’s a consequence of us taking the eye off the ball and making the wrong judgment in going into Iraq.”
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."