I am from NH and have been watching Presidential campaigns closely since 1960 – Yup I am an oldster. The support for Obama is completely baffling to me and I would appreciate honest reasons why so many of our young people support him (those under 35). I am not trying to be either snarky or to pick a fight. I would sincerely like answers to what I see are major character deficits. Here is my list.
1. Obama spends most of his time at large venues and on stages – speaking AT people, not WITH them. Yes, he has charisma, and is without doubt a great speaker. However, he avoids open town hall type venues, calls only on certain people he knows are pre-selected as safe or are wearing an “Obama” tee shirt.
Candidates will avoid directness with the general masses, to the degree that people “let” them get away with it – and that’s been true since the Roman Republic. If people insist that Candidates intermingle – then they would be forced to and that benefits “We the People” because we can see facial expressions and body language when candidates respond – both great indicators of character and willingness to SERVE “We the People”.
QUESTIONS – Doesn’t it bother our young people that he is not open to CONVERSATION and DIALOGUE with those that may not agree with him? Why does he always have to “hide” up on a stage as opposed to intermingling with people and taking ad hoc questions? Why do our young people accord him “rock star” adoration? Do young people now VOTE for president of the USA in the same manner they VOTE for the “Next American Idol”?
2.Obama does not do work assigned nor finish tasks. Obama has failed to convene a single policy meeting of the Senate European subcommittee, of which he is chairman. He made only one brief official visit to London, while on a travel layover on the way back from Russia. Since his sub committee involves NATO, our European allies are nervous, as described in this London Times Article
Obama was also charged with setting up an INDEPENDENT ethics Committee comprised of retired judges and former Senators Once again, incomplete and Obama just walks away.
QUESTIONS – America has had 7 long hellish years of a Photo-Op President who does absolutely nothing for the benefit of “We the People”. Are America’s young people satisfied with a person who talks a “great line” but never finishes what he sets out to do? What do these “incompletes” and failures tell us about his negotiating abilities, given that his entire premise is he will be “nice” to the opposition and they will agree to limits on their enterprises?
3. Loyalty to the Democratic Bases’ Values. Obama actively campaigned for Joe Lieberman in the Connecticut primaries. During the runup to the General election, Obama had one event in NYC , a days layover, and then another event in Boston. He could not go to Connecticut and spend a couple of hours saying some positive things about Ned Lamont the WINNER of the Democratic primary?
Obama consistently agrees with the Republicans on Social Security needing fixing. For millions of American Social Security is their ONLY income, especially among minorities and the elderly. Here are the statistics To follow any type of privatization plan of this insurance, would result in the slow genocide of millions of Americans. The answer is and always has been, raise the cap and put Social Security funds in a lock box, inaccessible for war funding, pork barreling and any of the other ways politicians like to spend OUR money.
And yes it is OUR money. The middle and lower classes pay 35-38% of their income in taxes. The wealthy receive their income as “capital gins” and pay only 10-15% of their earnings.
QUESTIONS: Do we want or need another president whose loyalties are to those the base disapproves of, or to someone who scorns Democratic values in place of Republican ideas? Is this the infamous and non workable “bipartisanship” or in reality, just capitulations to the mean old name calling Republicans? Are young people ready to dramatically alter their lives and go back to the 19th century paradigm of living with and caring for their elderly parents and less fortunate relatives?
4. Charlie Savage, Pulitzer Prize winner reporter for the Boston Globe, asked questions of all Democratic Candidates on Executive Powers The question on Executive Privilege was very telling.
Does executive privilege cover testimony or documents about decision-making within the executive branch not involving confidential advice communicated to the president himself?
Obama’s answer was also very telling (all emphasis are mine):
With respect to the “core” of executive privilege, the Supreme Court has not resolved this question, and reasonable people have debated it. My view is that executive privilege generally depends on the involvement of the President and the White House.
So Obama states that the Supreme Court has not yet made a decision, so HE will get to decide where the limits lie. What Reasonable people is he talking about?
QUESTION – Do we really want to continue down the road to Fascism, with this ridiculous “Unitary Executive” nonsense, which is nothing more than a new name for the Nazi concept of “Furherprinzep or Leadership Principle”?
5. Karl Rove type tactics. Obama is obviously a very adept wordsmith, which allows him to say nothing and everything in 5,000 different ways. This is not surprising for someone selected to be editor of the “Harvard Law Review”. But to even imply that Hillary caused Bhutto’s death is way over the top And then, there’s the type of attacks he uses on Edwards Also, his wife Michelle has been using “whisper” campaigns to talk about other candidates as CNN refers to here
QUESTIONS – Do we want to stay at the bottom of the sewer with more Karl Rove antics, or would we like to rise above the garbage that we’ve heard from the White House, DC pundits in the last 7 years? How many would prefer a serious discussion of the issues without the personality attacks?
These are not “whines” or nitpicks. Taken together, all of these things speak of characteristic qualities of someone not ready to be president. The reality is that America is a seriously wounded country, both image wise abroad and socially wise in our own country. We need a strong leader, who will not pander to illusions, that Republicans and our enemies will suddenly become enlightened. And if anyone really believes that Energy companies, Big Pharma, and the Health Insurance Industry are going to agree willingly to part with Billions in profits, they are truly delusional.
Ideology, or unmodified admiration of anyone, is a dangerous place when selecting a president. At a minimum, we should expect someone with integrity, a strong moral compass (I’m talking about a sense of right and wrong applicable to most 9 year olds), and a willingness to interact with people, to be up front most of the time and straight talking, without ambiguity. I also want and insist on someone with a strong respect for the law, so the criminals in the current administrations are held accountable for their numerous crimes against people and the Constitution. We have already had 7 miserable years of “neo Con” Ideology. We absolutely do not need any more ideology or “rock star” type worship from any quarter.
I offer this as an opportunity for Obama adherents to try to convince me otherwise using logic, not emotion.
The premise of your question is mistaken, in that a lot of older people caucused for Obama too. My parents are avid supporters. They read his book about his father, and were so impressed by his intelligence and insight they’ve been raving about him ever since. My parents are not young people! 😉
Obama has a much more solid record at his state level. He got some important lobbying reform legislation passed, and gained a reputation of being a guy who could work across the aisle without sacrificing his liberal record.
Here’s a guy who was the President of the Harvard Law Review, a really bright guy who transcended any perceived limitations of race to gain that position. He could have worked for any law firm in the country. But he chose a life of public service.
What has he been doing in the Senate? Working to get Veterans better healthcare.
I’m very disappointed in the quality of information about Obama found on blogs, so I’ve had to do my own digging.
He’s known for being a genuine peacemaker between opposing factions, for being someone who truly listens to others, who doesn’t try to impose his own opinions on others, who believes everyone brings something to the table.
I wish you and others who seem to have such negative impressions of him would investigate his record in more depth. Instead of a showboat, you’d find just the opposite: a workhorse who believes in first hearing all sides before making up his mind.
Believe me, the country could do much worse!
I don’t want a bipartisan peacemaker. I want someone who is going to fight for you and me.
Sometimes the best way to fight is to listen. You can persuade people more by listening than by telling them they are wrong. Try it sometime and watch the difference.
Benjamin Franklin made his points that same way listening and questioning. The neocons gained power with a no compromise attitude. Now we have two wars without end. I’d rather our candidate not emulate them. They are going to lose power because of the same reasons they gained power. Never back your opponent into a corner always let them save face. You’ll get a lot more accomplished.
BTW Grandma M this is a diary that needed writing especially in light of tonight’s Obama victory. His scrutiny has only begun and the pressure is going to ratchet upward now. The Dems need to really check under the hood.
Thank You I’ll be following this thread for the pros and cons. I need to know more.
Neo cons are abrasive jerks and I for one will not weep at their demise. They are like the behavorially challeneged in Public High Schools – bright at times, but woefully dumb when it come to making sense.
However there is something called REAL LEADERSHIP, that doesn’t mean “making nice” all the time, but listening, and then carefully explaining WHY that is not the path that will be followed.
Thanks Salunga.
Ben Franklin was an excellent listener and at the end, if he thought someone was full of B/S he had noqualms in saying it.
In NH there is an expression – “Godd gave you TWO ears and only ONE mouth – That’s because he expects you to do twice as much listening as talking”.
GOOD listening skills are an important part of communication, and also very hard to find in those who think themselve Very Important People.
It’s always important to listen and to respond in a way that let’s others know you understood. That’s called COMMUNICATION.
However, some of the drivel that is in DC, for example the brou ha ha, about rejecting Kwanza and Channukah, but embracing Christmas is ludicrous in the extreme. We not only should NOT listen to this – but to chastise those who take our money and waster OUR time on such nonsense.
Normal 7th graders don’t pull this crap.
I agree, as would Obama.
Don’t confuse listening and a desire for genuine bi-partisanship with capitulation and unnecessary compromise.
Lisa,
Actions speak louder than words. Look up Obama’s Senate record in Vote Smart and you’ll see that his definition of “Bi-Partisanship” definitely leans strongly toward capitulation.
Read instead the article in the New Yorker called “The Conciliator” to see that through smart, not cowardly, compromise, he was able to accomplish much.
Here’s the link. It’s a long article, but very interesting.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/05/07/070507fa_fact_macfarquhar
Agreed. There’s a lot to be said for compromise, but the problem we’ve had with the Dem leadership is an excessive willingness to compromise, sometimes on things that should not be open to compromise, like civil liberties, torture, etc.
I’m 37. My entire life has fallen within the bounds of the conservative culture war. I don’t have the least desire to compromise with the conservatives. I want to see them run out of the government and marginalized to such an extent that they cease to be a significant force in American politics. The “War on Terror” is a fraud, but the culture war is real, and I want to see a candidate who recognizes it as such and is prepared to bring us a decisive victory. I have no interest in a “uniter” who wants to unite us with people who think Rush Limbaugh and Michelle Malkin are worth listening to.
To be honest, I don’t know what kind of president Obama would make. That’s really the crux of my problem with him. I have no trouble imagining what kind of president Clinton and Edwards would make: Clinton would be a compromiser and Edwards would be a fighter. But Obama is a cipher.
I do know that compromising with conservatives is neither possible nor desirable.
Read the article at the link I posted above. I think you’ll get a better picture of what an Obama presidency would look like.
As long as it doesn’t look like a GWB/HRC Presidency.
My grandmother is 91 and she supports Obama. She was very moved by his convention speech. Just saw his victory speech and wow! I’m 48. 😉
Keep in mind a 21 yr. old has been watching Bush since the age of 14. A man that does not have a barren wasteland for a brain comes across very well. A leader who does not say uh, uh, uh between every sentence is the light after a cold dark night. Its a helluva start. This guy is electric I’m going to give him a chance.
Our countrymen have been brainwashed by supply side, trickle down, greed is good, poor is a sin, rich people tax cut bullshit for a long time. Leading them back to thinking like humans will take such a man as Obama. A person with soaring rhetoric to inspire. None of the others have this quality. People can believe in this guy. He is getting to me. I want to believe!
Hi Salunga
It looks like there is more of an age spread than I believed.
Do you honestly think that a tremendous ability * with soaring rhetoric to inspire* should be the PRIMARY ability of our next president?.
Were you, or your grandmother, ever close enough to Obama to ask the really tough questions, Like “what is your plan to soften the upcoming Recession and how will that affect the working class?” and then stand back and listen, not only to the words, but to watch the facial expressions, body language, and to tune in carefully to the tone used?
No…..I agree there is some vetting to do.
Lisa,
I have always truly enjoyed your comments.
However this comment They read his book about his father, and were so impressed by his intelligence and insight they’ve been raving about him ever since.
proves my point about Charisma and Inspiration being the primary focus – personality vs. ability- I responded in general to all the great comments here in another diary you can read.
There have been throughout history, Statesmen who have written great and inspirational books. Even Hitler wrote “Mein Kamp” and was also a fair to middling artist. Does this ability give anyone the the Character and Leadership abilities for our country in these really troubling times.
Believe me, I have dug deeply, and watched closely. Obama’s ability to charm is exceptional, but I believe you need much more than that for the major leagues.
You don’t get to be president of the Harvard Review on charm.
You get there because you’ve proven yourself to be both brilliant and fair.
No one is disputing the fact that Obama is VERY intelligent. Why do you fell a need to empahsis it so much? The entire intelligence quota of the Bush Administration would probably fit like the size of a glove on only one hand of the Dem candidates.
Partly because they are young people. They do not know in their gut how far the nation has fallen from the days of the great American Middle Class, because it was already being rolled back by deliberate government policy as they were growing up.
I agree! And having 2 grandsons near military age, reminds me daily of the fact that some how my generation failed our youngsters.
I’m sorry but I fear the kiss of death if Obama wins this nomination and it’s because not only does he have a bad voting record on trade and immigration (he is beyond open borders on this issue) but also he doesn’t have experience and his positions are not nuanced. Hillary, also a major corporate representative at least knows she is one.
I don’t know what they are voting on except star power, hype, some great sounding speeches.
Iowans vote on one thing above all else:
Authenticity.
When you see the candidates over and over, up close and in your neighbors’ homes, those who are authentic survive, and those who come across as phony do not.
The Iowans see something in Obama. It would be good if people stopped reading blogs for their opinions or just watching speeches, and did some of their own digging into his background.
He’s actually got more experience in public office than Hillary or Edwards, for example. He’s got a solidly liberal record. There’s a lot to like, which is not to say he’s perfect or anything else ridiculous. No candidate ever is!
Obama has more experience in public office than either Clinton or Edwards, and in fact beats their combined total in terms of years serving the public from an elected position.
Edwards, Clinton, and Obama have each served one U.S. Senate term.
But neither Edwards or Clinton have served in public office anywhere else.
Obama served in the elected government of Illinois for eight years prior to coming to the Senate.
Really, who has the most experience?
Being married to he President is not the same as making the deals yourself.
Winning lawsuits is hard work and admirable, but it is not the same as working with legislators to get bills passed.
Obama has the longest and most relevant experience of any of them.
Great observations.
And I checked ownership of some of the newspapers who endorsed Obama, and they are Republicans, with a stealth agenda.
Given just this, don’t you think that perhaps good old Karl Rove, may have called a few of his old “friends” in the newspaper business, because he found some really good dirt to use on Obama in the general?
What bothers me most is that people seem to have a knee-jerk, if not well-informed, opinion re Obama.
He may well be our candidate on the Democratic side.
Wouldn’t our time be better spent learning about and discussing his actual record, rather than speculating about that which we don’t know?
In this thread. Notice how they never really discuss the actual policy positions, the details or the funding…and yes the endorsements. That is not good. It’s the policy stupid that’s the real issue here and we need someone who understands global economic issues and how the agenda is to wipe out the US middle class. Right now we’re seeing the end of sucking the money out of the middle class which means we’re in real trouble.
Obama on insourcing is a corporate endorsed/funded candidate.
.
Will be the slogan this fall as:
in other words: recession lures after 8 years Republican rule and plundering the middle class, favoring the wealthy with trillion dollar tax breaks and spending a trillion dollar on an Enduring War for oil in the ME.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
I’ve been wondering the same thing. He’s OK, but pretty speeches only go so far. I don’t like the money he draws, or his free trade position. Maybe I’m just too old to trust a flashy young whippersnapper.
.
Cannot just be counted in years, see Salunga‘s grandmother above at age 91. As the years pass, let wisdom not slip by into cynicism, but keep in touch with the younger generation. Sure they dress different than our generation and listen to their music and have other interests. At the heart of their being, the youth are caring persons and are eager for change and thus HOPE.
This is what keeps mankind alive, Barack Obama has the talent to convey hope to his supporters and listeners in the crowd. He touches hearts.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
Or it could be the experience of hearing pretty speeches that never quite get anywhere. I like his speeches, but I hear a lot of platitudes without substance. What change? Which way does he want the country to go? He has promise, but I would rather have a few more years to watch him.
It’s interesting that Obama supporters often see Edwards as all show & no substance. I see a populist that recognizes the assault on the middle class. I want to see the corporationists challenged. Listening is important, but the corporationists have been the only ones listened to for some years now. It’s time for regular people to be heard.
Maybe it’s a matter of how you see hope. Do you see hope as fighting the corporationists? or working with them?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think we’ve had 4 presidents who were younger at Inauguration than Obama will be (47):
Grant – 46
Teddy Roosevelt – 42
JFK – 43
Bill Clinton – 46
Enough of the whippersnapper stuff, please, some perspective.
The whippersnapper was more a poke at myself than at Obama. Besides, it’s such a great word.
Kidding aside, age/experience is not that important. What kind of experience? What sort of judgement have they shown? Do they understand people who have a different life experience? Are they more style or more substance?
Experience and change are just slogans that can mean anything, or nothing.
No you are not too old, you are entirely correct -“pretty speeches” are GREAT entertainment – but what does it embody for what he will actually DO?
He was a community organizer in Chicago before winning his State seats, which he held for eight years before becoming U.S. Senator.
He’s got a long record to examine.
It’s surprising to me for people to ask what will he do? Why, what he has always done. Get things written and passed that benefit us. Help the poor. Protect our rights. Fight for lobbyist reform (he got a landmark bill passed in Illinois after a series of scandals there helped force the issue). And always, always listen to all sides before making up his mind.
We could do much worse, and have, for years.
In my experience, it’s always emotion that carries the day, not logic.
They choose him because they are idealistic and they love the possibility of the country being led by an African American and they want to be part of that history. Look at the way things are trending – young people are accepting of new ideas, like gay marriage and blacks being elected to high office in much higher numbers than older people are. Young people have watched old, white people fuck up the country and they want a change. It’s their world, after all.
Yes it wil be their world – and Its time they started thinking about HOW and WHAT they want that world to be.
I know my generation was too damn naive – then “busy” and boy did we ever screw up.
Because we don’t like Hillary and are tired of old white men fucking up the country?
without a permanent military base?
We also know he will expand the military:
This is what I call devious *Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq.
There are currently 55 Bases in Iraq, with at least 6 of those plus the green zone being PERMANENT
So exactly WHAT does Obama’s statement MEAN, since those “Permanent”, or as the Pentagon says “ENDURING”, bases already exist? Are we dealing with just semantics here?
because they are young. I was impressed at the end of the work day yesterday to see one of the younger(25 yr old) looking up what was going on in Iowa and asking if anyone knew what a caucus actually was? I trieds to explain it to her. I thanked her for caring and told her that no matter who she supported just vote.
The problem with the younger voters is they tend to not show up on election day. Look what happened to Kerry in 04 when he was counting on them.
Turnout for younger voters is always going to be low. It’s just the way it is; and I’m speaking from experience.
Unless you’re indoctrinated early, it’s just too hard to care for politics when you’re busy trying to get your life in order; school, job, starting a family, etc. It’s a hectic time. Once you settle in it is much easier to not only start caring, but to see how much of a fool you were for not realizing how much government affects you personally earlier.
But on the good side, younger voters are the most progressive voting bloc. Some will surely turn more conservative as they get older, but many of us are fire-tongued neo-hippie anti-corporatists all the way to the core 🙂
Many, many adults have no idea what that caucus thing is, as well. 🙂