You can watch the Rules and Bylaws Committee live on CSPAN. James Roosevelt is discussing Florida now.
About The Author
BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
Roosevelt is explaining why the committee imposed a 100% penalty when the rules only mandated a 50% penalty.
Essentially, they were worried that a 50% penalty would be insufficient to deter other states from also violating the Feb 5th rule.
Roosevelt notes that it was the Florida Democratic Party that determined it would be logisitically impossible to have an alternative election. In other words, it was not the Obama campaign’s obstruction.
Florida DNC member Jon Ausman is presenting the Florida party’s challenge to the sanctions. He’s got 15 minutes to make his case.
Any idea when we get a decision?
sometime after 3 pm, I think.
I predict that at 3:00 PM, Hillary will need a drink.
Ha, I always have trouble figuring out which way the momentum’s going when the debate is lawyertalk. But I hope you’re right.
I think she already had it.
my diary is right here – A drink before you go.
no that’s more than drinking…maybe a a drink spiked with painkillers…
That was very presidential, no?
I predict she is already already having one in her coffee.
May need to add an hour to that with all the applause time.
Weather channel just announced a Tornado watch for DC (and that’s beffore Hill has her first drink)
Boo, do you have a guess as to how long this will take?
Okay, the Florida party is conceding the fifty percent penalty for pledged delegates but wants full voting rights for all DNC members (superdelegates).
They have a pretty good argument that the DNC’s Charter says that all DNC members says all DNC members ‘shall’ be delegates to the convention.
Yeah, I think Jon Ausman’s got it right on superdelegates. That seems a fair read of it.
Huffpost A deal with Florida was reached before this meeting
I just woke up…and I still need to go get coffee. I guess I’m going to have to record this.
Chuck Todd’s point that the dilema here is how does DNC sanction pledged delegates but not super delegates. Youch, this guy is good and points well made.
Chuck Todd is brilliant. He’s been lightyears ahead of everybody in the news business this year.
Bill Clinton said at end of April 2008, the solution for this dispute: Seat half the delegates.
Senator Bill Nelson is speaking now.
Nelson can’t get past the emotional stance, no facts, no arguments. Not helping to distill this all down to working circumstances to go forward. He sounds great, just like his hero Hillary but the emotion is stale.
Yes, exactly.
All he is, is a baboon. He is not one of my favorite senators. I actually detest him most of the time. He is one that is easily swayed to the republican ways of thinking.
I really hate Bill Nelson’s article. It’s entirely based on emotion. How is the vote in Florida fair to Obama? He makes no effort to answer that question.
Nelson is a tool. I could’ve told you that long ago. And people actually want to consider this goofball for Veep?
He would be a much stronger advocate for FL if he just once acknowledged the voters that chose not to vote.
Oh good, now he’s raising the victim volume…we tried over and over but no one helped us and the Rep forced us to deny Florida voters representation.
I believe the right thing to do is to split Florida’s delegates evenly and totally disregard the outcome of their rogue election. Whether they give them half votes or full votes is immaterial under that scenario.
But, in the interest of peace, I’m fine with a 50% penalty. Now, they can strip half the delegates or they can take away half their voting power. Stripping half the delegates would make the result a near tie, which I think is the fairest compromise.
I think they should give each delegate half a vote from Florida, and then split Michigan 50/50, also giving each delegate half a vote.
What do you mean a TIE? could you explain that to me
As I understand it there are two ways to split the Florida vote in half. The first is to give each delegate a vote that counts as .5 with relation to everyone else’s vote. The second is to give every delegate a full vote, but cut the number of delegates in half. So if you had a CD that started out with Clinton getting 5 delegates and Obama 3, you could end up with that same CD being split 2-2 because of the way the vote percentage came out.
It’s all kind of complicated but as Chuck Todd just said “Only in the Democratic Party could half not equal .5” 🙂
Yeah. If they strip half the delegates then the district-by-district allocation of delegates will wind up giving Clinton a much smaller margin of victory than if they seat all the delegates and then take away half their voting power.
The difference is that Clinton currently holds something like a 38 delegate advantage. Halve it and she picks up 19. But if you strip each district of half its delegates then the allocation changes.
A 4-2 split will become a 2-1 split, taking away two net delegates from Clinton.
So, she’d wind up with a much smaller margin that way.
In the interest of peace, we can acknowledge an election took place and the Clinton won it. In the interest of fairness, we can limit the gains she makes out of an unfair election. That’s compromise.
I believe she’d net 19 under those rules, right? Or is that the one in which she nets 6 that Chuck Todd was talking about? Either way, that’s fine.
In the interest of Democracy we must respect counting every vote but equally as a Democratic Party we must demand accountability and the necessity of consequences.
My worry is the same as it’s always been — if we just slap their hands and say “Bad state committee! Don’t do that again, OK?” it’s an open invitation for every single state committee to move their primaries up into 2011, because nothing will happen if they do.
The way to resolve the issue is to get some kind of plan in place waaaaay before 2012. Not only penalties for states that move their primaries and a means for resolving the situation in Florida (where the Repubs were in the driver’s seat) but also to help to rotate various states who want to vote earlier to take turns equitably.
I suspect if Obama is elected in November that there won’t be such a big deal in pushing primaries forward with an incumbent in the White House.
Even in fog-shrouded Pacifica I need to spend some of my Saturday outside and away from this. I salute those of you watching this and will check back from time to time. My guess is that both delegations will be halved. It will be a kind of 55-45 breakdown for Michigan in Clinton’s favor. Don’t think it’s particularly fair or representative, but it ends the misery.
Sigh. I’m turning this off. Clinton’s people are turning this into a joke with their irrational emotional appeals.
Amen. This is nauseating considering they and their candidate agreed to the sanction.
Well the whole thing is cuckoo seeing as how Ickes agreed to the sanctions before they ever held the damn primary, and here he is on the committee now.
I just want to see the end of this inane line of talking points with my own eyes, yaknowwhatimean?
and candidate Clinton said these states would not count, but when it suits, she’ll throw away the rule book.
Steve Jobs has nothing on Hillary Clinton when it comes to the Reality Distortion Field.
Boy ain’t that the truth. The difference is, in one of those people it’s seen as an admirable or at least benign thing.
True. One is a living-god-like figure in technology. The other is a soulless hack.
Go Wexler!!!!!!
Indeed. I turned it back on when I saw he was going to be speaking. Wexler ate his Wheaties this morning.
and the 19 delegates for Hillary are a drop in the ocean of delegates she needs. LOL
Well, that’s the big burrito right there. Whatever happens can’t throw this thing back into contention.
Omir, I am still waiting for your latest video LOL
Impatient, aren’t we? 🙂
Oh sweet, Wexler responding to Ickes. Gotta say, this being live on a Sat is the best thing they could do to start unifying the party. Wexler is going down as strong without strongarming. Makes my heart go pitter pat.
Mr Rickie is an asshole and got caught. LOL
Wow. Wexler just stole Ickes lunch money.
OOps I got his name wrong LOL
Hmmmm . . . Michigan proposes a 69-59 split (good) but wants everyone to have a full vote (bad).
Bad, but I could live with it.
I suppose I could too if I had to, but I still hate to see them get away with just a hand slap.
Same here. The right penalty in Michigan, in my view, is to split delegates 50/50, thus making it irrelevant.
Can I just say we need to elect some better people to DNC. I see a bunch of weenies.
We certainly need to throw Harold Ickes off.
NO to full seating. That is total bullshit.
I will check back later. I am off to work at Obama Headquarters to prepare for the Texas Convention. LOL
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