I followed Bowers’ lead and took the crude Meirs-Briggs personality test. Here is how Bowers and I differed.
- Introverted- Me: 44, Bowers: 67
Intuitive- Me: 62, Bowers: 88
Thinking- Me: 38, Bowers: 1
Perception- Me: 11, Bowers:33
I don’t know what the numbers really mean, because we both came out as INTP’s, or ‘Architects’.
Explanation below the fold.
Architects need not be thought of as only interested in drawing blueprints for buildings or roads or bridges. They are the master designers of all kinds of theoretical systems, including school curricula, corporate strategies, and new technologies. For Architects, the world exists primarily to be analyzed, understood, explained – and re-designed. External reality in itself is unimportant, little more than raw material to be organized into structural models. What is important for Architects is that they grasp fundamental principles and natural laws, and that their designs are elegant, that is, efficient and coherent.
Architects are rare – maybe one percent of the population – and show the greatest precision in thought and speech of all the types. They tend to see distinctions and inconsistencies instantaneously, and can detect contradictions no matter when or where they were made. It is difficult for an Architect to listen to nonsense, even in a casual conversation, without pointing out the speaker’s error. And in any serious discussion or debate Architects are devastating, their skill in framing arguments giving them an enormous advantage. Architects regard all discussions as a search for understanding, and believe their function is to eliminate inconsistencies, which can make communication with them an uncomfortable experience for many.
Ruthless pragmatists about ideas, and insatiably curious, Architects are driven to find the most efficient means to their ends, and they will learn in any manner and degree they can. They will listen to amateurs if their ideas are useful, and will ignore the experts if theirs are not. Authority derived from office, credential, or celebrity does not impress them. Architects are interested only in what make sense, and thus only statements that are consistent and coherent carry any weight with them.
Architects often seem difficult to know. They are inclined to be shy except with close friends, and their reserve is difficult to penetrate. Able to concentrate better than any other type, they prefer to work quietly at their computers or drafting tables, and often alone. Architects also become obsessed with analysis, and this can seem to shut others out. Once caught up in a thought process, Architects close off and persevere until they comprehend the issue in all its complexity. Architects prize intelligence, and with their grand desire to grasp the structure of the universe, they can seem arrogant and may show impatience with others who have less ability, or who are less driven.
Albert Einstein as the iconic Rational is an Architect
Here is what we’re supposed to be doing for a living:
The most reserved of the Rationals is the Architect (INTP). They store huge amounts of information in their heads and can analyze problems with great insight. They are often drawn to professions where they can be their own bosses, such as optometrist, plastic surgeon, neurologist, or scientist. They may become lawyers, architects, or financial analysts. Many are found in the higher levels of academia in such fields as archeology, chemistry, philosophy, or mathematics. They may show a strong creative bent as a musician, inventor, or photographer. Some restore antiques or old cars. Says Don, “I like having my own business as an optometrist. I am constantly reading about new advances in the field. My work must be of the highest quality. My reputation has caused many patients to come to me because they have problems that were not solved by other treatment professionals.”
The drive towards constantly increasing their knowledge base and being highly competent is what gives Rationals a sense of personal satisfaction.
Architects are the rarest form of ‘Rationals‘ which is itself the rarest personality type.
Rationals don’t care about being politically correct. They are interested in the most efficient solutions possible, and will listen to anyone who has something useful to teach them, while disregarding any authority or customary procedure that wastes time and resources.
Rationals have an insatiable hunger to accomplish their goals and will work tirelessly on any project they have set their mind to. They are rigorously logical and fiercely independent in their thinking — are indeed skeptical of all ideas, even their own — and they believe they can overcome any obstacle with their will power. Often they are seen as cold and distant, but this is really the absorbed concentration they give to whatever problem they’re working on. Whether designing a skyscraper or an experiment, developing a theory or a prototype technology, building an aircraft, a corporation, or a strategic alliance, Rationals value intelligence, in themselves and others, and they pride themselves on the ingenuity they bring to their problem solving.
Rationals are very scarce, comprising as little as 5 to 10 percent of the population. But because of their drive to unlock the secrets of nature, and to develop new technologies, they have done much to shape our world.
I suspect that a high percentage of bloggers are INTP’s. I suspect an even higher percentage are Rationals of some sort or another. It’s been my experience that bloggers, as a general matter, find it:
“difficult…to listen to nonsense, even in a casual conversation, without pointing out the speaker’s error. And in any serious discussion or debate [they] are devastating, their skill in framing arguments giving them an enormous advantage. [Bloggers] regard all discussions as a search for understanding, and believe their function is to eliminate inconsistencies, which can make communication with them an uncomfortable experience for many.
This feature of the Blogging Personality Type may help explain why we tend to fight so contentiously with each other, even as we generally share the same principles and goals.
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Ratings:
Extraverted 33
iNtuitive 38
Feelings 50
Judging 22
Even more than the other Idealists, Teachers have a natural talent for leading students or trainees toward learning, or as Idealists like to think of it, they are capable of calling forth each learner’s potentials. Teachers (around two percent of the population) are able – effortlessly, it seems, and almost endlessly-to dream up fascinating learning activities for their students to engage in. In some Teachers, this ability to fire the imagination can amount to a kind of genius which other types find hard to emulate. But perhaps their greatest strength lies in their belief in their students. Teachers look for the best in their students, and communicate clearly that each one has untold potential, and this confidence can inspire their students to grow and develop more than they ever thought possible.
In whatever field they choose, Teachers consider people their highest priority, and they instinctively communicate personal concern and a willingness to become involved. Warmly outgoing, and perhaps the most expressive of all the types, Teachers are remarkably good with language, especially when communicating in speech, face to face. And they do not hesitate to speak out and let their feelings be known. Bubbling with enthusiasm, Teachers will voice their passions with dramatic flourish, and can, with practice, become charismatic public speakers. This verbal ability gives Teachers a good deal of influence in groups, and they are often asked to take a leadership role.
Teachers like things settled and organized, and will schedule their work hours and social engagements well ahead of time-and they are absolutely trustworthy in honoring these commitments. Valuing as they do interpersonal cooperation and harmonious relations, Teachers are extraordinarily tolerant of others, are easy to get along with, and are usually popular wherever they are.
Teachers are highly sensitive to others, which is to say their intuition tends to be well developed. Certainly their insight into themselves and others is unparalleled. Without a doubt, they know what is going on inside themselves, and they can read other people with uncanny accuracy. Teachers also identify with others quite easily, and will actually find themselves picking up the characteristics, emotions, and beliefs of those around them. Because they slip almost unconsciously into other people’s skin in this way, Teachers feel closely connected with those around them, and thus show a sincere interest in the joys and problems of their employees, colleagues, students, clients, and loved ones.
Mikhail Gorbachev, Oprah Winfrey, Pope John Paul II, Ralph Nader, John Wooden, and Margaret Mead are examples of Teacher Idealists.
I especially like the romance description …
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."Once came out as a Healer (INFP), and the 2nd time as a Mastermind (INTJ).
Which is kind of funny in that I am an Engineer by trade (if I had to have picked, I would have chosen INTP or ENTP just based on the description).
The questions are vague enough that you end up having to interpret what they mean. In some circumstances I might answer one way, and in others I could answer differently.
Hey – you and me are both Idealist Teachers! No wonder I feel a kinship there!
Another teacher! I wouldn’t have guessed it, but the skills are quite handy in politics;-)
YOUR TYPE
E N F J
Strength of the preferences %
100 62 38 11
And Johnny Depp! Kewl!
Reagan – not so much.
A further, often underemphasised feature of the type is the tendency to spend time blogging when they’re in friggin’ Italy. Unplug, unplug, unplug. Take a break. Recharge. Rest those overdeveloped blogging muscles.
We had this discussion (in play, because obviously a pack of rationals don’t place all that much trust in this sort of analysis) over on ET at one stage.
It strikes me that most of the worst fights are between the more rationally incliner and the more emotionally inclined, or between people living in different universes on a topic: when framing differences are unrecognised they’re an insurmountable problem. Our classic ET version is the nuclear debate, where many anti-nuclear people have a completely different set of underlying assumptions than the more pro-nuclear or agnostic people. It means that you just end up talking past each other and getting all frustrated because it sounds like you’re having a discussion but you’re not.
If it makes you feel any better, I’ve already had a wonderful breakfast, walked several miles along the lakefront, and have taken over 100 photos.
I’m also writing this from my perch over looking the lake. And I’m waiting for a certain someone to get done with work obligations so we can venture off and do whatever.
Kiersay and Bates write about ending the pygmalion project, which is our normal tendency to project our personality dynamics on others and expect them to change to suit us. Yes, I thoroughly agree that different personality types fight, and this is largely because they can’t understand ‘how’ the other sees the world the way that they do rather than ‘what’ they see the world to be.
This is the most common personality/behavioral fallacy — IMHO.
I happened to type as an INTP (Architect) this time, but I usually type as an INTJ (Mastermind).
Results vary over time and with the form of the test. I’ve previously been reasonably close on the Judging/Perceiving index, which, as I recall, relates to a need for closure. I guess I’m a little more anal-retentive on some days and need to have more order.
I won’t pretend to understand the MBTI, although it is in my area, so to speak — psychology. Another test, the Strong-Campbell, is often used, too. The Strong-Campbell has some empirical support, as personality types correlate with job occupations. It’s not as simple as wanting to be a doctor and answering the questions with doctor-like answers, since the actual way doctors answer isn’t obvious. Certain personality types are happier in certain occupations, and this is what the empirical evidence shows.
http://luna.cas.usf.edu/~mbrannic/files/tnm/svib.htm
There are newer editions of “Please Understand Me,” by Kiersay and Bates, and I recommend it for a more thorough discussion of the topic of the MBTI personality test. Old editions are good, too, and many used book stores carry this book.
I see that there is a distinction between the Meyers-Briggs personality index and the work by David Kiersay. It’s explained here:
http://users.viawest.net/~keirsey/difference.html
Another Architect here. 100 12 62 44. Though I tend to think of myself as more like the third rate carpenter who builds the house without any plans and then wonders why the walls aren’t exactly square.
Overview.
Oh my God. I have had a type change over the past few years. I have always been an INFP which seemed to fit nicely with my avocation as a shamanic healer. Now, though, I am an INFJ, the Counselor. Linguistic ability, feel for poetry, psychic skills–hey, this is apropos for an urban shaman also. Maybe, this is why I seem to be specializing in relocating lost souls from the environments in which they are trapped to the regions where they actually belong.
I have had some heart warming successes with haunted houses, offices, battlefields, holocaust sites and even living human beings whose health has just gone to hell because of a possessing spirit which has taken up dwelling within their psyche or for want of a better word, their soul. Even veterans who have picked up these spirits in combat, particularly when our guys have slain the enemy but, inadvertently, acquired a very determined and avenging ghost. Too bad my reach is so limited but the VA is not knocking down my door.
I like my new type; guess, I’ll keep it.
The more magical moments in life the better.
I’m pretty sure I’m a INFJ. I feel your pain then I tell you how you screwed up.
You are:
moderately expressed introvert
moderately expressed intuitive personality
moderately expressed feeling personality
moderately expressed judging personality
I finished looking up the rest
Guardian<sup>TM</sup> Portrait of the Protector (ISFJ)
We are lucky that Protectors make up as much as ten percent the population, because their primary interest is in the safety and security of those they care about – their family, their circle of friends, their students, their patients, their boss, their fellow-workers, or their employees. Protectors have an extraordinary sense of loyalty and responsibility in their makeup, and seem fulfilled in the degree they can shield others from the dirt and dangers of the world. Speculating and experimenting do not intrigue Protectors, who prefer to make do with time-honored and time-tested products and procedures rather than change to new. At work Protectors are seldom happy in situations where the rules are constantly changing, or where long-established ways of doing things are not respected. For their part, Protectors value tradition, both in the culture and in their family. Protectors believe deeply in the stability of social ranking conferred by birth, titles, offices, and credentials. And they cherish family history and enjoy caring for family property, from houses to heirlooms.
The last Guardian type is the Protector (ISFJ). This is the Guardian least likely to seek positions of leadership since they may feel uncomfortable in the lime-light. They are often seen as the people who do whatever is necessary to keep things running smoothly. They do their best to prevent problems.
That test, by the way, yielded different results for me than the way I usually score. Can’t remember exactly how, but other people had that experience too.
I’m INFP, by the way.
I’m INFJ
Introverted 44
Intuitive 75
Feeling 25
Judging 1 (a “1” in anything has to suck, right?)
Exerting influence behind the scenes…Like DICK CHENEY?!!1!?
1% of the population? I always knew I was weird — a FREAK, one could almost say! GAH!
They’ve got it partly right: I can seldom tell how I do anything.
Your one just indicates that you’re near the middle on the Judging/Perceiving index. Look at the neighboring type, the INTP, since you’re very close to that.
Here’s a little on the Judging/Perceiving characteristic.
Here’s mine:
Your Type is
ENFJ
Extraverted 22
Intuitive 75
Feeling 50
Judging 22
I came out an Idealist Teacher. I like the sound of that! (~2% of the population, so while not as rare, we’re not common, either).
I came out as an INTJ this time. I usually switch back and forth between INTJ and INTP.
Introverted 89
Intuitive 62
Thinking 75
Judging 33
I’m a Mastermind. I like that. 🙂
we need another test for online personality tests. An 89 on introverted? Pah!!
I know. That surprised me too.
I don’t really like Meyers Briggs because I think its categories are too restrictive.
I’m not at all introverted if I’m with people I know well or if I’m with people who are like-minded and are talking about things I’m interested in or in a situation I feel I can control. And even though I’m introverted at my core, I do all kinds of things that introverted people aren’t supposed to do. I don’t like large crowds but I do them and I do them fairly well as long as I’m not too tired. And I’m a great actress and can pretend to be what people think is extroverted as long as it is for a short period of time.
People are far more complicated than Meyers Briggs testing shows.
I wish you would stop blogging and focus on the important things in Italy. Did you have gelato today?
Everyone is trying to make me feel guilty for blogging.
Hey, I had a great breakfast, I went for a long walk and took pictures, I did my photo blogs, went and had a great lunch and read a book for a couple of hours, took a two hour nap, and I’m just waiting for CG so we can start our evening.
It’s not like I’m tethered to my computer. I’m sitting on my balcony, enjoying a 1664 and taking in the view. Plus, you guys enjoy the attention.
Now, what to have for dinner?
Well, I just looked up the local cuisine:
I’ve never had tripe soup. Let me know how it is.
well, if you ever get around to visiting, we’ll go hunt down a perfect bowl of menudo.
hmmm, it’s a cure for hangovers. Sounds like a fun trip. 😉
No need to feel guilty. I think it’s another one of those personality/preference issues. Or a “how we’re wired” issue. I find that a change of scenery can often cure my writer’s block. So personally, I consider it to be a good thing.
I read expanded info on Jung’s introvert-extrovert which offered more clarification. This has more to do with the internal and external worlds and stimulation. Introverts tend to find much that interests them internally, whereas, extroverts find needed stimulation with interactions with people.
Shyness is something else again.
It is not surprising that the number of people who have responded are more introverted considering the medium, as it is not the full blast of stimulation that face to face interactions provide. In a way, introverts get both tired from the active engagement with people and overstimulated, needing to unwind after a social event or lots of time with people.
That’s really good stuff. This is a perfect description of me:
I’m not particularly shy. But I require a lot of alone-time. A LOT. More than the average person, it seems. And I always have to regroup after being around people. But as long as I know that “alone time for myself” is in the schedule, I can be very social.
If I get into situations where no one will let me be alone – I create it anyway either by withdrawing into my own thoughts or becoming really crabby so no one wants to be around me. :)I’m usually not aware of what I’ve done until after the fact.
Yes, I was just thinking of posting on that, Tampopo. The meaning of extroversion/introversion has been confused with shyness. Actors are often introverts, so performing in front of an audience is compatible with introversion — surprisingly.
Questions related to crowds, as I recall, reveal introversion/extroversion. Introverts tire from personal interactions whereas extroverts are energized by them.
Being more of an introvert, I like the “porch light is on but nobody is home” description of extroversion (which is disparaging, of course). Extroversion can seem like shallowness to an introvert, since their interaction occurs on the surface. On the other hand, introverts can seem like brooding, self-centered, anti-social types to extroverts, who interpret that behavior according to its meaning in their own personality dynamic.
Actually, it makes perfect sense – introverts are most comfortable with written communication. In effect, in reading an introvert’s written communication you get inside of the normal defenses and actually see their true self, the self that they (we) normally keep shielded from the outside world. I would expect that the more introverted the individual the more expressed their online personality would be, i.e. the quieter they are in person the louder they’d be online. It would definitely make for an interesting study if anyone around here is actually qualified to do such a thing (I only stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last week).
I don’t know whether I consider this test to be any particular indicator of the “real” me or not, but here’s what I ended up with:
Your Type is
INTJ
Introverted 22
Intuitive 25
Thinking 1
Judging 11
On the other hand, 1% thinking sounds sorta like me.
I’m a
* moderately expressed introvert
* moderately expressed intuitive personality
* moderately expressed feeling personality
* slightly expressed judging personality
In other words, a counselor type:
Whatever…
Um…the sun’s coming in and out over here in Mad City. It’s muggy but very windy.
Then I got this one, The Healer:
Your Type is
INFP
Introverted 44
Intuitive 50
Feeling 38
Perceiving 11
I think I like both The Healer and The Counselor.
I suspect its not unusual to flip to and fro between very slightly expressed tendencies such as your perceiving versus judging. Don’t know about you, but I find that some of the questions in Myers-Briggs tests are very hard to answer – as in I could go either way. I’d guess that a different answer to only two or three questions might make the difference between a low score on each side.
I loved taking these assessments when I was a pshych major at University and I still get a kick out of them.
This one is about as right on as it gets for me! LOL!
As referenced in those famous persons that are also INFP. . .I seem to be in wonderful company. I also would never presume to be in their company.
I have long been aware why I drive you Rational types totally bonkers. . .it just makes sense doesn’t it?
Hugs
Shirl
I was wondering if the “Rationals” or “Logical Thinkers” actually behave any more logically or rationally as anybody else.
I find Colman’s comment upthread most perceptive: thinkers and feelers talk past each other. So what appears a discussion isn’t really. I wonder if discussions can be moderated in a way or set up somehow to accommodate both to better engage and understand each other. Maybe there is a temperament type best suited to do that? Or a translator of some kind?
People are amazing 😉
Well, of course, me being the touchy feely idealist, it seems to make the “rational” realists fairly uncomfortable that although I recognize their “logic” and perfunctory ways of things, they seem to have no clue where I am coming from. Or they have a very strong need to tell me how wrong I am. Personally, this type of discussion doesn’t bother me. I don’t have a need to be right. I would like to be heard, but even that is okay if they don’t want to listen to my perception.
It is quite challenging at times to explain to the “realists” what it is I am actually trying to say. I’m getting pretty good at analogies these days. . .LOL!
We are all amazing and interesting and I hope one day soon we will be able to play together in a more complementary and productive way even learn to have fun together. . .the odd balls and the solid steady types.
These seem to change for me every few months. I don’t believe I’ve ever been an ISFJ before, and reading the first paragraph of the description, it’s fairly clear this thing read me wrong this time:
I mean, how fucking off is THAT? I don’t need to be NEEDED — I need to be LOVED! By EVERYBODY! Needed??? Fuck that. I HATE being needed.
As for THIS:
… very much bound by the prevailing social conventions, their form of “service” is likely to exclude any elements of moral or political controversy…
Uh, was I on meth when I took the test?
I’m taking it again. because either this test is wholly unreliable or I have multiple personality syndrome — and I haven’t come home with a strange tattoo to date.
Protector is the sub-section of the Guardians, to which I supposedly belong.
Just took it again and came out the same.
Weird.
ISTJ.
Ugh, very introverted. Moderately expressed sensing, thinking, judging. I’m going to live up to this result and go hide away now.
Every time I’ve taken this, I’m either ENFJ or INFJ. This reading makes sense, because lately I’ve had a ton of events where I’m in a large crowd, so my inner-introvert has needed attention
Your Type is INFJ
Introverted – 22
Intuitive – 62
Feeling – 50
Judging – 56
Manny, you once wrote the Meirs-Briggs is culture-bound. When I read that, I wasn’t sure in what way. Is it the test or the temperament interpretations or something else that causes you to consider it limited culturally?
this must’ve been awhile ago because I can’t remember what context we were chatting about when it came up, or it’s Friday and my fried is brain’d 😉
Your Type is
INFJ
Introverted 33
Intuitive38
Feeling 50
Judging67
Counselor as are others, here.
Hi everyone.
Hmmn. I took the test and found ENFJ – strongly Extroverted, and very mild tendencies towards intuitive, feeling and judging.
I’ve taken these tests a number of times over the last twenty years, starting off as an INTJ with mild introvert score and moving to mildly extroverted after a few years.
I suspect that the move to feeling rather than thinking in the third indicator (which I think measures how you perceive things) has accompanied some unlocking of my emotional side. I’ve thought that I react more emotionally since having children, but was interested to talk to another 50yo man recently who said he thought it was a product of aging.
Hi all INFJ’s and INFP’s you are the salt of the earth, and as the commentaries say, very rare types indeed. Also, don’t worry about those rationalist folk; they never will understand you.
Just go with the flow, do what feels right, swim without clothes, write a poem or two, sing, dance, rejoice.
Listening to that new CD “I’m Not There” and having an OBE (out-of-body experience). [Be back in a minute.] “Goin’ to Acapulco” and “Knocking on Heaven’s Door” are, well, divine. I love Dylan’s music.
A guy could get lost in the glory of her eyes.