Carrie Budoff Brown has a pretty good piece in today’s Politico that takes a look at the Netroots’ disappointment in Barack Obama’s FISA stance. It has quotes from Matt Stoller, Jane Hamsher, and Markos Moulitsas. It also has a quote from Dangerstein:
Dan Gerstein, a New York political consultant who supports Obama and former longtime aide to Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (I-Conn.), said Obama now needs to stand by his support of the bill, given Republican efforts to brand Obama as a “reflexive, partisan liberal.” “This is really an important initial test for Obama,” he said.
“People will be looking at this to see whether he has the strength and independence to stand up to his friends and a significant support base and say, ‘I think this is right, and I am going to hold firm in my position.’”
It’s no surprise that Dangerstein would try to cast this vote as some kind of test of political independence (and therefore courage) but that’s ridiculous. Here’s the best I can say for Barack Obama (or for Rep. Patrick Murphy, for that matter). Sometimes politicians have to make a decision on a vote. They may oppose a bill in its final form, even when there are parts of the bill that they think are important, or even urgent. And they may realize that the bill is going to pass regardless of what stand they take on it. At that point, they sometimes make a political decision that they’ll get more trouble for opposing the parts of the bill they don’t like than they’ll get credit for supporting the parts they do like. In other words, if they can’t stop a flawed piece of legislation, they have little incentive to open themselves up to criticism for not supporting the good parts of the bill. This is politics, and we all understand that no one likes to take a hit for no good reason.
But contrary to what Dangerstein is asserting, these are not examples of courage or independence. They are examples of raw political calculation. And there is a problem with this specific case of raw calculation. The FISA bill is different from run-of-the-mill bills in two major respects. First, in granting retroactive immunity it does something irrevocable. Congress cannot come back later and undo immunity. Second, it cedes vast new spying powers. Congress could revoke those spying powers in the future, but it is unlikely to do so. For these two reasons, and because the bill defines the scope of the Fourth Amendment by weakening it, the FISA bill has some bedrock principles associated with it. It isn’t the type of bill that you can easily make political trade-offs on. Even if you know the bill is going to pass, you should go on the record against it. That’s why this is accurate:
The Netroots will be watching Thursday as the Senate considers the bill — and whether Obama simply casts his vote or whether he takes a strong stand in a floor speech.
Obama has already disappointed us by both his stance and his rhetoric. It’s clear that he made a decision to try to split the difference by opposing retroactive immunity but supporting the overall bill even if it includes retroactive immunity. Unfortunately, that’s a ship that has sailed. But Obama can partially redeem himself by laying out some kind of plan to revisit the spying powers aspect of the bill after we get the Inspector General reports that are mandated as part of this bill. He should go even further and promise that the passage of retroactive immunity will not prevent the public from learning what actually happened during Bush’s term with unwarranted electronic surveillance. He should support a Congressional inquiry next year to learn what would have been learned in a court of law if immunity had not been granted.
Then he should say that we will revisit the FISA law once we have a better understanding of the facts. I know we are all disappointed, but if Obama makes these promises, it will be a lot easier to swallow this capitulation and it will reincentivize the Netroots to work for his victory.
If we get the sense that Obama is following Dangerstein’s advice, that would be very bad.
Unfortunately, that’s a ship that has sailed.
nope, it can still be stopped. Obama can still be persuaded to do the right thing. All donations must stop, all volunteer efforts must stop, and people have to let him know why they are stopping.
Anything else is selling out the fourth amendment. Obama will find a way to walk this back if the pressure is sufficient.
This is not just coming from netroots, it is also coming from Slashdot and other directions.
People aren’t falling for the national security scam.
But sadly, most of Obama’s supporters aren’t blog followers and don’t have a clue this is even happening.
But sadly, most of Obama’s supporters aren’t blog followers and don’t have a clue this is even happening.
We only have power when we have big numbers on our side. And we don’t have big numbers on our side at all.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/26/123524/000/764/542332#c10
Yesterday a new group was created at BarackObama.com: Senator Obama, Please Vote Against FISA
When he first announced his support of the bill, I wrote an email to friends suggesting that online organizing/social network tools can – and should – cut both ways.
When we are happy with out candidate, by all means, we should be more than willing to express our support.
On the other hand, when our candidate disappoints, we should not shrink from offering full and frank criticism of where he went off the rails.
More than any candidate that has ever come before, Barack Obama has engaged the people of this country. A central campaign plank is his promise to open government up and involve more people. FISA may provide us with the perfect test of these new tools.
This morning, I did not have a my.barackobama.com account. A friend emailed me the link to the group and within 60 seconds, I had an account and I was part of the group.
Here’s the link: Senator Obama, Please Vote Against FISA You know what to do.
Please note what this is not.
This is not a “not one dime” diary.
This is not a “well, that’s it… I’m taking the bumper sticker off my car and not volunteering at the polls” diary.
This is not a “Well, I’m staying home in November” diary.
In fact… This diary, I believe, calls on you to do exactly what Barack Obama has called on all of us to do when our government disappoints: involve ourselves and work to change the outcome.
So please… ask yourself “What would Barack Obama want me to do?”
Then go do it.
oh please, this is just a way to use our opposition to FISA abuse to support a candidate who is selling out the fourth amendment. You don’t have to join a damn group to contact the campaign and let them know you care about the Bill of Rights.
True enough Alice, but I joined the group anyway, just to increase the pressure.
But I grow increasingly skeptical about the meaning attached to any email, telephone call or other contact.
I believe that they are simply ignored.
Come to his “unity” event and protest.
There will be TONS of media there. Can you imagine if supporters were there carrying signs saying “Obama – stop FISA” in big numbers?
He is trying to use his SUPPORT for this bill to change the meme that he is the “most liberal senator in the Senate”
It’s a mistake. He’s losing the netroots, at EXACTLY the time that he needs us.
Our enthusiasm pushed him past HRC. Out enthusiasm is letting him get away from the Public funding system.
Without us, he is a lesser candidate.
He is trying to use his SUPPORT for this bill to change the meme that he is the “most liberal senator in the Senate”
Maybe
or maybe he knows that he is going to be the next President and he wants these expanded powers.
if that’s true then he merits my support even less. I’m voting for president, not autocrat.
And if Obama wants those powers for himself, I hope he’s impeached.
Well, there is no way to know for sure, but I don’t feel like giving someone the benefit of the doubt when they propose to take away my fourth amendment rights.
I know, that’s why i’m not voting for Obama anymore.
Wait, you want McCain to win?
I was never easy with Obama as the Democratic candidate and what he does on this FISA abomination will determine whether he will get my vote. My Congresswoman has already lost my vote because she supported the FISA capitulation, and I’m betting that Obama will as well. If you keep settling for the lesser of two evils you’ll always be stuck with evil.
If you don’t stop choosing between the lesser of two evils, you WILL get the more evil option.
That should have read DO. If you DO stop choosing.
But voting for the lesser of two evils means that you approve of evil. I’m done voting for bad Democrats, because they’re just as bad as republicans.
looks as if feingold has been successful in, at least, getting the FISA vote delayed until after the 4th of july recess:
so the O-man’s got a bit more time to reconsider…any bets?
teh kabuki kontinues.
And it gets us moe time to let him know the disaster — on every level — that he’s flirting with.
I can at least understand a politician making an unpleasant political calculation — a deal with the devil, if you will, a chance to live to fight another day, blablabla. Not admirable, but understandable.
What really makes me sick about Obama’s apparent FISA cave is that he no longer seems to be a smart politician. It appears that all his rhetoric about change and a new kind of politics was just that: words as tools to get what he wants, devoid of meaning in themselves. He seems not to get that those words, whether he really meant them to or not, did create a new kind of political ecosystem. His remarkable upset win was historic in many ways, not least that it happened because of a remarkable wave of trust and enthusiasm that has not been seen in many decades.
The forces that propelled him to victory are powerful but fragile — the huge dedicated crowds, the sense of hope among the young, the black, the progressive — they can all blow away overnight like a cloud of smoke in a gust of wind or like a giddy spell . And he will have nothing left. His advisors have obviously looked at the demographics and decided that his primary supporters can be ignored and betrayed in the expectation of thereby winning the middle. Their stupidity, their non-understanding of their candidate’s position, may well put McCain in the White House. It’s a pretty easy equation: Change does not mean pandering to Bush and his cronies. Obama is way smart enough to get that, so it’s hard to see his behavior on FISA as anything but calculated political betrayal of both his base and his principles.
It ain’t quite over yet, and maybe Obama will still surprise us. Or he may join the sorry ranks of Dems who snatched defeat from the jaws of victory because of their compulsion to pander to the very worst Americans we have.
Yes, it could all go up in smoke. I don’t think he realizes this, at least not yet. Maybe he will see his Hillary Clinton moment looming on the horizon and save himself from himself: once invincible is not always invincible. The present growing confusion, maybe even desperation, of the majority of people in the country is obviously playing out in Congress. They can’t get this FISA/immunity thing out of the way soon enough. But they won’t succeed. Obama needs to realize that the pas de deux between him and Mrs. Clinton is over. I now see the Clinton family as a stone around his neck. He has accepted the bargain out of calculation—something like ‘shut them up and get the votes’—but it won’t work because they are not going away. You might think I’m rehashing old grudges and conflicts. Well, I’m not. Clinton’s place in all of this will only change and recreate itself down to the very day before the election. Which Democratic senators were not present the cloture vote (I think it’s called that? Four: Kennedy and Byrd are sick, Obama and Clinton are in their bloom. It looks like Obama is going go dish up a very sneakily refined agreement with the old guard of the Democratic party. I still can’t believe that McSame is actually going to get the Republican nomination. Call me a conspirator. The toothy smiles they’ll exchange in Unity tomorrow night will surely be blinding, as the bride and groom meet. I hate all of this.
If all the claims about how Clinton still isn’t on board with Obama have any truth in them, she’s been handed a golden opportunity. Get up in front of the Senate, give a rousing speech on the life-or-death threat to American liberty, and join the filibuster.
The buyers’ remorse and self-flagellation that Obama supporters like myself experience will give her a good shot at becoming president when McCain doesn’t seek a second term.
Well, there are many other Democrats beside Obama and Clinton. This whole thing just keeps goin around in circles as if the primary is still going on. In 2012 do you really want to go back to the Clintons? Really? Now Obama won’t let them go. They are going to cause crap between now and the GE. Count on it.
No, I don’t want to go back the the Clintons. I’m talking from the standpoint of strategic possibilities. If Clinton does want to put a banana peel in Obama’s path, the best thing she can do is go to the Senate and take the stand that Obama has apparently weaseled out of. Buyers’ remorse is a powerful thing.
The SCOTUS ruling on Exxon did an interesting thing this week. It took a block of fiercely independent people who live and work in Alaska, most of whom are Republicans and have always stood up for themselves and asked for govt to just get out of the way; and it gave what should have been theirs to Exxon in a giant move of corporate welfare. AK is a pretty strong red state but the Exxon ruling is going a long way this week to change that. Alaskans get it.
Next up, the telecoms. And if my inbox this morning is any indication, there’s a whole lot of people outside the blogosphere who just realized that the Rep have dealt out corporate welfare pretty freely these past 8 years and when they hear immunity, they think Exxon and when they hear FISA they wonder why Bush is wiretapping them and not capturing UBL.
So if you’ve ever watched that program ‘Dangerous Jobs’ and you’ve seen those crab fishermen, well, they’re not the only fishermen who are tough and proud and this week they ALL pissed.
Then let’s all vote for McCain. Or, how about Nader.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
You forget the don’t work,don’t contribute, don’t promote, don’t vote option.
Down to its essence.
The leftiness sniper brigade.
You are a self-fulfilling prophecy.
And who is the prophet?
Yup.
Good work, guys ‘n gals.
GREAT work.
McCain is already coming on.
Watch.
AG