Make your predictions. How many progressives will vote for the bailout? How many Republicans?
Update [2008-9-29 14:12:25 by BooMan]: Fasten your chinstraps. The Bailout Bill failed in the House. The DOW is down over 600 points.
About The Author
BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
Dennis Kuchinich is in his element and I’m beginning to wonder with all the push back from the street if Pelosi will get her votes.
That’s true.
How many Act Blue/Blue America progressives are going to vote for this mess? I’m not sure.
GOP? I’m betting less than 60. The 100 votes aren’t there.
Are my eyes deceiving me on this little MSNBC window, or did this just fail to pass the House 229 against, 205 for?
You are correct – as is your little TV box. And the Dow plummeted 700 points, too. Whee!!!! It’s inching back up a bit now, though.
DOW was down before this vote…no cause and effect yet.
Down on news of the mere possiblity of failure. Now down over 700.
Seems to have stabilized…I’m not hearing reports of bankers jumping out of windows.
It really pisses me off when the Kudlow’s of the world tell us why the markets are down…I call BS when I smell it.
Who knows why the markets do what they do? If you did, you wouldn’t be commenting on it on a blog called BooMan, that’s for sure.
I think people fail to understand: this is not the U.S. in the 1930’s. More like France, 1789.
As soon as it became clear that the bill was going to fail, the Dow dove from about 500 to 700. I watched it happen. Seemed like a cause/effect to me?
Here’s a cause and effect:
10:30 DOW down 700+ Perhaps because of a flawed bill
2:30 Bill fails, market rallies to -500
Seems perfectly plausible to me – but who knows?
I agree. Kucinich, Kaptur, Sanders, and a fair portion of the rest of the Progressive Caucus are standing up against what amounts to another public looting of the treasury — only this time they’ve got inadvertent support from the GOPhers, who are ideologically opposed to any form of socialism and are fighting their own party’s leaders on this.
the strangest of bedfellows
its like watching japanese girls have sex with eels
Yeah. Almost as weird as seeing the Dems jump in bed with Bush. Pelosi and Bush joining together to ram home this bill is too much. Haven’t they learned?
Weird times.
You’ve seen that?
someone is not a porn aficionado
Hey! I live in the Sixth District of Minnesota. Here “porn” is putting peanut butter on your lefse.
I had to look up “lefse.” I hoped it was a euphemism for something sexual. Alas, it is merely flatbread.
I am never moving to Minnesota.
I couldn’t even make a guess. To me this seems like something progressives can support as long as the final version is not quietly sabotaged. But the decision, as always, will be based on political calculation. Too many people are still enraged (and rightly so) over the original Paulson proposal, so pols will have a hard time convincing them that what’s on the floor now is much different.
I suspect the Repubs will fall into line as they almost always do. If not, Pelosi has to stick to her guns and let the bill go down as promised.
depend what you mean by “progressive”.
Kos has Chaka fattah as a supporter, and maxine Waters may be on board too. They’re progressives, right? So that’s two…
A definition seems to be in order here.
How many “progressives” are even in a position TO vote for it?
List your group of progressives in the Congress and we can start from there.
AG
Wow. Fun to watch the Dow drop to -700 on the day when it became clear this wasn’t going to pass. W
.
Effects everyone on Mainstreet, jobs, sales, revenues, taxes and simple credit. Interest rates will go through the roof, the economy will stall and unemployment jumps higher. Not a fun day at all … greed and opportunists in Congress. No one today takes responsibility, complete lack of leadership. Wait a few years for the rise of another Adolf Hitler. In Austria the extreme right parties got 30% of the national vote yesterday. Happens to be Hitler’s birthplace … coincidence? Within a decade you would think fondly of GWB in comparison.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."The people in opposition to the plan aren’t listening. Nearly all of what I’ve seen and read is US-centric, which if continued leads directly to where you’re pointing. We are so . . . parochial.
That’s no fun. It’s No joke. Your income is at stake even if you are retired. Banks are on life support.
Well…Congress has really put themselves in a spot now. Where do they go from here?
Nobody knows.
Wall Street looks like the House of Blue Leaves scene from “Kill Bill”: Guys in suits bleeding all over the floor.
The markets hate uncertainty, and we’re as about as uncertain as we get.
One of the reports (MSNBC? AP?) had the House reconsidering. No time line/date.
Wall Street would do well to step up to the plate and begin offering up participation from THEIR end to fix this. I refuse to fall for their ‘we are without means’ here.
And as for the interest rates, it’s not unreasonable to read that the credit hoarders have decided to wait for the more profitable money that will be filling their coffers once the American people take the hit for them. Why give credit today when you can receive profitable credit after the bail?
Been hearing rumors that the Dems will adjourn subject to recall and begin putting together a package of their own, rather than hanging some baubles on the administrations package. They’ll have to do it pretty fast though.
I’d be pretty surprised, and, quite frankly, disappointed if there was no Plan B, C, and D.
Disaster capitalism at it’s finest hour.
Um…I am anything but pleased about this and I agree with you that’s it’s no fun and no joke. I suppose I should have added a </sarcasm> tag? I guess I was in shock from the stupidity of the folks who blocked this.
Sarcasm and badly attempted humor are what keep me sane these days. Next time, I’ll be more explicit.
The only upside, I suppose, is that the Dems will get to craft a better bill and they will have the votes to pass it. No sarcasm intended here.
I knew it was sarcasm of the Atrios “whee!” variety.
What’s happening today is sickening, and cause for black humor.
Thanks. I felt like I was in trouble.
Tensions are running high, and with good cause. I know I haven’t been sleeping so well lately.
Imcredible.
I leave for errands and all hell breaks loose. The vote failed
Reconsider you idiots. Dow dropped 700 points now at 460
The stock market’s pusher didn’t come through with more dope.
Barney Frank just said that they’re going to look at the reaction of markets before deciding how to proceed.
It’s ironic that congressional Republicans have less contempt for voters than Democrats do.
It’s time for the Democrats to start acting like grownups and start working on a proper plan, one that fixes the financial sector as opposed to just putting off a meltdown, as this plan does.
I’m sorry this is harsh, but that’s bullshit.
These stupid fucking wingnuts got us into this mess, and now they’re throwing a goddamn tantrum? They are not noble! They are not patriots. They are fucking us because of their crackpot ideology.
This bill is the “slippery slope to socialism?” Also from theNYT: Representative Darrell Issa, a Republican, said he was “resolute” in his opposition to the measure because it would betray party principles and amount to “a coffin on top of Ronald Reagan’s coffin.”
You mean to tell me that they will risk fucking up our economy even more than they already have–from obliterating regs to killing Glass Steagall–because of their stupid fucking Reagan worship??? And that’s being applauded??
No. No!! AFAIAC, this is the bullshit they started in 1994–fucking own it.
I agree that part of the reason they voted against the bill is their stupid ideology. But voter sentiment also had something to do with it. This could be a turning of the time, as David Sirota claims.
I probably hate Republicans just as much as you do. But what bothers me more at the moment is that Bush is DONE, so that there is no reason to back any plan of his.
I’m sorry. I should probably calm down.
:<)
I have so many reasons I’m angry about this. I’m mad that people decided to get pissed about this now. I’m mad that Code Pink gets covered now when it’s about three of them.
I know this is no time for blame, but I am so tired of being run by morons and people who continue to fall for the okey-doke but then turn around and have the temerity to be pissed until I can’t stand it. And just reading this “socialist” bullshit from the very rethugs who caused this mess is more than I can abide.
I don’t know what’s going to happen. But this does not look good. At all.
But I tell you this for damned sure: for all this rethug “socialism” talk, they got pensions. I am worried about the people who don’t.
This problem has been brewing for some time, and it’s not just the crisis in the financial sector. There’s a lot of wingnuts out there, both in Congress and in the country at large. Wingnuts are called wingnuts because that’s what they are: they are irrational. No democratic social order can survive when such a large portion of the population has such irrational beliefs.
The main problem with the Democrats is they don’t want to admit that the Republicans are crazy. Instead, they want to work “in a bipartisan way”.
I’m afraid I don’t know what to do about this. If things get bad enough with the financial sector the elites will force a real solution, but things will have to get quite a lot worse before that happens.
Congress cannot, nor should it, promise to keep to the stock markets at a certain point.
Democrats are fools to promise to keep the stock market inflated. That’s what they are promising with this bill. Sure, the markets will rise by about 700Billion, just as they did the day after the bailout was announced, but this is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
The stock market will go down because it needs to go down. The market is finally realizing what the credit markets have been hinting out for a year–we are entering a long and deep recession and paying the bill for decades of irrational exuberance and conservative meddling.
Democrats might as well lift the laws of gravity.
DOW isn’t worth more than 8000 anyway.
They hang the man and flog the woman
That steal the goose from off the common,
But let the greater villain loose
That steals the common from the goose.
The law demands that we atone
When we take things we do not own
But leaves the lords and ladies fine
Who take things that are yours and mine.
The poor and wretched don’t escape
If they conspire the law to break;
This must be so but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law.
The law locks up the man and woman
Who steals the goose from off the common;
And geese will still a common lack
Till they go and steal it back.
I will be totally honest: like our esteemed Glorious Leader and his Esteemed Glorious Gut, I am nowhere near 100% qualified to opine on the bailout. I can try to educate myself as best i can, but then I have to trust my gut.
As much as Booman is trusting his gut to support the bailout, I am trusting mine in opposing it.
That said, I wonder if there isn’t a greater issue overshadowing the entire debate and that is “who in their right mind trusts ANYTHING BushCo has to say?” I don’t mean that snarkily either: a number of politicians on both sides of the aisle have been rolled by Bush, several times. Iraq; tax cuts; NCLB.
Booman, although you are concerned that your readers aren’t taking these dire warning seriously, I don’t think the blame can be heaped on them: after all, they’ve been hearing nothing but bullshit, utter steaming bullshit of the rankest order, from this administration for 8 frikkin’ years. Democrats especially have watched their own reps and senators roll over for Bush, only to see those reps and senators made to be fools for rolling over.
The fact is that there is a well-earned dearth of trust in the DC establishment. Since when have they been right on ANYTHING in the past 8 years, democrats OR republicans?
Again, not saying this to be snarky: after 8 years of government not doing its job and worse, blatantly lying to the people, the people no longer trust the government to do its job.
Suggest you read the 106-page bill, and not the crib notes. A “bailout”? Hardly.
In return, I suggest you do some remedial reading comprehension classes, because your comment has nothing to do with anything I’m saying.
The particulars of the bill aside, I don’t think our leaders have the political capital to get this done. It’s been squandered badly, whether it was the lies that got us into Iraq or the decision to take impechment off the table.
The people have lost faith in their leaders.
Please. You’re really going to try to sell this snake oil?
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/congressional-charade-changes-in.html
It’s a total bailout. You guys always pretend like you got some good deal from Bush. And you suckers always get punked. Always.
Why should we believe the biggest losers in the history of legislative democracy? The Democrats? They’ve been owned by Mr. 28% these last 8 years. In fact, they are less popular than Bush and Cheney! Because you guys always fall for the conservative trick and then pretend that you’re not bought and paid for punk ass bitches. That’s your job. To get punked by Bush and then act like you are really standing up to him but he just drove such a hard bargain and you guys just tried really, really hard to stand up to him but you couldn’t blah blah blah. Legislatin’ is hard work.
You got PUNKED by Bush. Again.
Glenn recongnizes the dynamic. http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/29/bailout/index.html
All of America recognizes you guys are Bush’s bitches. You have only convinced yourselves that you have spines. The rest of us see right through you like a cheap suit.
I’ve been taking these dire warnings seriously for about a year. I’ve been frustrated as the Bush administration has blown smoke up our ass and simply told us everything is fine (the economy is doing great. U.S.A. #1) while the Democrats have focused on silly character based campaigning and basically ignored this issue.
Now that Bush has detonated his financial terrorist bomb we we have political retards running in at the last minute because they live in perpetual fear of the Worst President Ever. They are so easily manipulated and have terrible “gut” instincts.
Since we are all going on our “gut” instinct, and because Bush and the Dems have avoided these topics the last year, whose gut do we really trust?
Well, I do know one thing: there is one simple lesson we should have learned over the last 8 years:
If Bush is holding a gun to our heads and demanding we do something we should 1) not do it, or 2) do the exact opposite.
So my “gut” tells me we should present a 1 trillion dollar bill to Wall Street to compensate Main St. for the losses we are suffering because of their action.
I wonder if Mittens will keep saying that McCain was responsible for the bailout deal now that it has been defeated?
GOP presser: Dems are to blame The Jewish holidays will intervene.
Today Dennis Kucinich and my representative, Mean Jean Schmidt, voted the same way on this bill.
“Worlds are colliding”
Man, I need some alcohol right now.
Ahhhh…..Muchas gracias mi amigo!
I needed that.
How could any progressive vote for this? Anyone who votes for this is by definition a right-winger. It’s an absolutely abominable plan that would devastate the American economy and the American people. Thank god it failed.
The few million Americans who aren’t idiots, or morbidly obese, or both, should now seriously consider go joining the Amish.
Worth a read for the way it connects the dots & makes sense of it all.
Bottom line: The system is f***ed any which way you look at it. You can go into denial or accept that a new way must be found. Europe might be doing just that.
I wonder how many Republicans were short selling the Dow today. I think Pelosi, should just let the markets fall and defund the Iraq war.
Love my wife for keeping us in the money market funds. Now the question for us is, was that good?
I really hope the nation doesn’t tailspin into a deep depression. We just don’t have another FDR around to get us out of it. Well, then again, FDR didn’t get us out of it, did he? I would be pleased if the Congress would extend unemployment benefits or ordinary workers as a minimum gesture. The CEOs will do well, golden parachutte or not. Only rich men and a few rich women get to be CEOs these days. It is a requirement of the job.
Exactly.
And most Americans are not in the stock market. Most are in social security though. Remember how 8 years ago Gore was advocating responsible action: putting our surplus into a “lockbox” to ensure that social security would be there for the American people. But we let Bush give that money away to the rich in tax cuts instead. And almost went all in the stock market with Bush’s privatization scheme.
We need to focus on the basics. Shore up social security. Protect pensions. Protect bank deposits. Make sure insurance companies follow through on their promises–we can’t let them gamble their funds by overleveraging. We need a working wage and worker protections.
The stock market is gambling and the gamblers should not be protected by people that didn’t gamble–like you.
Good for you for being a conservative and safe investor. We don’t need to take money away from you to give to reckless gamblers that are already rich.
Agree.
Thanks for the sentiments.
When the next plan is put together, can we have some economists work on it? Maybe, we can even start with our elite ones, like our nobel laureates. After all when we built the first atomic bomb, we used the best nuclear physicists the planet had. I know Sarah and the rest of the coven don’t much care for the best of anything, but, I think we should get serious about solving this economic thing.