I just want to say, because everyone is focusing on Sarah Palin, that Joe Biden turned in a really superlative performance tonight. The last time a Democratic vice-president (or vice-presidential candidate) decisively won a debate was when Al Gore bested Ross Perot in a debate about passing NAFTA. NAFTA.
Joe Biden had his biggest moment and his biggest responsibility in this campaign tonight, and he was outstanding. If the worst happens and somehow McCain wins this election, I don’t want to hear anyone say that Biden didn’t pull his weight in his debate.
Clearly he won. He was excellent. The problem is she didn’t EPICly implode. Many(most?) of her answers would have been EPIC FAILs if spoken by anyone but her, but the bar was set so low that all she had to do was display a 3rd grade mastery of English and she appeared successful.
Sadly the terrible interview moments we’ve all been laughing about for the past 2 weeks helped her tonight, in a sick and twisted way.
unless Palin doesn’t do any more interviews with real reporters, we have more Palin gaffes to look forward to. She survived tonight because Ifill asked predictable, awful questions and never challenged Palin for specifics. How many times did Palin answer yes or no and then change the subject? Ifill was terrible; I seem to remember her being pretty bad 4 years ago too. Bring back Jim Lehrer.
Palin may have stopped the bleeding just a bit, this might be the catalyst to even the polls out a bit, but she will only provide McCain with bad news from now on. More gaffes, Troopergate, etc.
Bring back Jim Lehrer.
Lehrer is a tool and way worse than Ifill. Lehrer was the stupid part of the original MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour. That PBS allowed the NewsHour to continue with Lehrer alone (who cannot even speak standard English) shows what a depraved corporate lackey PBS is.
but Lehrer has the best moderator the last three or four election cycles hands down. Impartial but generally tough about trying to get some specifics.
Ifill let Palin get away with non-answers the whole night.
Joe Biden was magnificent tonight. When he choked up talking about his son, I teared up too. Palin, of course, was clueless. God, what a klutz she is but the Senator from Delaware did the Democrats proud.
Many times I wanted him to turn to Sarah Palin and say “Why don’t you drop those GOP talking points and answer a question for once? You think that during negotiations with Putin or Sarkozy you can just spout memorized lines and think that’ll get the job done?”
Or maybe: “Who are you to question Barack Obama’s patriotism, or his love for our troops? He’s visited the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. He’s been to Walter Reed. He worked to pass the new G.I. Bill, which by the way John McCain opposed. Go ahead and discuss our policy issues, if you even know them beyond these memorized talking points, but don’t question the character of my friend and running mate.”
These would have been the true equivalent of “You’re no Jack Kennedy.” But I understand why Biden didn’t put the smack down in such a direct manner. It all comes down to Sarah Palin being a woman, and the Obama campaign not wanting to risk any criticism of being patronizing or mean.
Personally, the way Palin was attacking Obama, I would have encouraged Biden to put the smack down. But I figure he didn’t want to to give the Republicans an excuse to cry foul. Still, it would have been wonderful to see.
Sure, it would have been satisfying, but far more satisfying that he clearly won.
It wouldn’t be just the Republicans. If Biden had been anything less than over-the-top courtly, we’d have been hearing squeals all over the place from lipsticked pigs of the Ferraro/Rothschild breed.
Superlative? The Biden I saw was dour, unsmiling, and didn’t look in the camera as Palin did. He mumbled, bumbled, and audibly sighed. During the last hour he came alive a little bit, and had a few moments of quality. Is that the best he can do with a generation of TV experience?
Meanwhile, Mooseburger held her own, in her bullshitting way, despite not making any fucking sense whatsoever, and manifestly being some chess pieces short of a set.
Biden should have destroyed her from a rhetorical as well as a rational point of view. He managed the latter, but so do most Democratic contenders. Rational dialectic isn’t generally decisive in US elections, no?
I think that Joey’s charms might be somewhat lost in translation, just as Palin’s are for most Americans. Biden has a very focused appeal.
Palin’s charms are completely lost on me.
As for Biden’s charms, that is as it may be. I am not looking for charms, but for substance, and Biden had substance while Palin, predictably, lacked it completely.
No, I agree with you, Booman. I think his performance was superb. He could have come down on Palin hard, but I think it would have been to his detriment (not that it wouldn’t have been viscerally pleasing to liberals and progressives). The right-wing spin-machine would have gone into overdrive ramping up the pity party for “poor put-upon Sarah” and the ground that has been gained in contrasting her vapidity over the past week with the solid messaging of Obama/Biden would have been jeopardized.
Biden did what he needed to do, and he did it well.
“Biden should have destroyed her from a rhetorical as well as a rational point of view.”
In the face of nasty snarling McCain, Obama is a gentleman. Biden is a gentleman as well. No need to get nasty because this is a new game. The blogs will take her apart. Once the truth is pointed out, MSM will then repackage it into the 24/7 news-cycle. This is where the damage is done. Biden did what he was supposed to do.
how many times did biden look directly at the camera and count off the lies palin was telling about mccain’s record?! i thought he spoke directly to the camera at several key points in the debate emphasizing and re-emphasizing his points.
At the end, I think that Gwen should have risen up, crutches et al, and put that Palin brood to bed! Pronto! ENOUGH!
and the analysts at free republic weigh in:
doesn’t get any simpler than that, does it?
but despite the bluster, a very spooked and desperate wingnuttia drew an audible sigh of relief tonight.
mccain just wasted another big scheduled opportunity to move his campaign forward in order to once again shore up the base, not that he really had any other choice. he’s down to two big chances at getting the not-so-straight-talk express out of the ditch it’s in, unless outside events turn in his favor.
Partisans are going to believe that their person won. What do the undecideds think?
McCain surrenders Michigan…
I couldn’t watch the entire debate, but one miscue I did get from Papa Joe was the bit about legitimizing Hamas and how he and Obama warned against that. That’s going to make things a bit difficult if the parties sit down and talk.
Hurria, you flashed in my mind when I heard that bit.
Ohhhhh – I missed that part. I was late leaving work, and was only able to hear/watch the last 20-30 minutes or so. Anybody got a link or even a transcript?
Not sure that Gore won that NAFTA debate.
That pretty much sums it up.
That is FABULOUS!
Biden showed himself to be someone who could step into the Oval Office without missing a beat. Only a genuine hard-core nihilist could say the same of Palin, especially while the debris from the current dumb bomb in chief is still raining down around us.
I’m beginning to wonder if we might end up getting a kind of reverse Bradley Effect, where hard-core Republicans finally face the reality they’ve kept suppressed, and decide they can’t bring themselves to enable this sorry moron to take control of the nation’s future, no matter how “cute” and folksy and wingnutty she is.