I don’t know how much you read Daily Kos, but Markos has been calling for his ranks to ‘leave everything on the road’ in an effort to win every last available seat in Congress. The Arizona Republic characterizes his attitude as having the “unseemly scent of wild-eyed vengeance.” Markos has raised over two million dollars for House and Senate races.
I have been quietly uncomfortable with Markos’ tone as he asks for total decimation of the Republican caucus. I haven’t said anything because I agree with him, totally. What the Arizona Republic, and other conservatives, need to understand is that the hunger for justice can easily bleed into a hunger for revenge. And Bush, Cheney, DeLay, and Santorum have left Washington DC as one giant crime scene which, come January 20th, should be literally festooned with yellow police tape. But it won’t be.
There is too much complicity on the Democratic side. There are too many denizens of the Village that value forgiveness (in the name of nonpartisanship) over the law and the Constitution. Barack Obama has too many big problems to tackle to get sidetracked with a truth and reconciliation project. Bush and Cheney should have been impeached. They weren’t, and they almost definitely will not be. That means that our only real source of justice is at the ballot box on Tuesday. Election Day is the day when the American people can pass their verdict on the crimes, corruption, and incompetence of the Bush administration and of conservatism in general. Either the people send a loud and resounding message, or we’ll never truly let the world know that we understand what we let happen to our country on our watch and that we condemn it.
Most people have spent the last four years working hard trying to feed their families, save for college, make a little extra for retirement, and enjoy the little things in life. Others of us have spent the last four years, every single day, documenting the atrocities of the Bush/Cheney administration and the Frist/DeLay Congress, and screaming ‘No, No, No, that is illegal, that is immoral, that is a LIE.’ We know the crime scene better than anyone, and we thirst for justice. Martin Luther King Jr. said that the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice. That is the universal underlying faith of the blogosphere and the activist left. We know the crimes, but we also know the shortcomings of the bipartisan consensus in Washington. We know they are incapable of giving us the full measure of justice.
To be sure, the commentariat of the Beltway no longer argues with us. They have conceded that we were right all along. There were no WMD. The war in Iraq was a costly lie and a moral monstrosity. Guantanamo was wrong. Torture is wrong. We were being spied on. The Republicans are incompetent and corrupt. And Bush is the worst president ever. We have won the argument, but we will still be denied justice. And because we know we won’t get justice, our only outlet is to defeat those the Establishment won’t convict.
They should hope as many Republicans lose as possible. Perhaps then, our thirst will be sated.
And while you’re at it, give them a kick for the rest of us.
Well said Boo. There is only one point I question-
Bipartisan consus. You know that that doesn’t exist in DC.And that is why 60+ is so important!
That ’60’ number isn’t really all that important. When you have members like Ronnie Musgrove and Ben Nelson, you don’t really have 60 on many things. Lieberman gives us 60 on some things and denies us 60 on others.
As for consensus, Congress lacks it, but the people that make up the Village embrace it. It’s an odd disconnect that allows politicians to commit crimes in the name of National Security with near impunity.
Trust me, once you start down the path of vengeance the thirst will not be sated until there are no more enemies. And once the enemies are all gone you will look askance at wavering friends and turn them into enemies. Vengeance is like a narcotic, addictive, and if you play with it then it will soon own you. Be careful there – trust me, I know a few people with some unresolved grievances…
Thus my discomfort with the tone.
I don’t get your point– or is it a typo: “I have been quietly uncomfortable with Markos’ tone as he asks for total decimation of the Republican caucus. I haven’t said anything because I agree with him, totally.” How are you “uncomfortable” yet you “agree with him totally.” Are you only uncomfortable with his tone? If so, why? I don’t think “tone” is worth worrying about four days out… Can you clarify?
Well…while I completely agree with his argument and the vital importance of what he is doing and asking others to do, and I agree with all his reasoning, I don’t think talk of crushing, mauling, decimating, etc., is the best tone for what this project.
It’s about justice.
Absolutely. Just look at the Republican Party. They are a prime example. The can’t put heads on pikes fast enough right now to satisfy the blood seekers in their party.
Well said Oscar.
I wish I could say that I would be content with a landslide. But not. As you said, so many of the dems are complicit in the crimes. They weren’t just innocent bystanders, they aided and abetted the war, domestic spying, the economic crisis, the total lack of accountability.
Should the dems really take over I don’t see them rectifying any of their errors because I don’t think they see them as errors. It is going to take several election cycles to clean house if that’s even possible. As Christy at FDL keeps reminding us all, this is a marathon, not a sprint.
I’m looking forward to seeing what the next steps are going to look like in the netroots. We may be the only ones pushing for accountability and if we cant get it retroactively, we’re going to have to push for forward accountability. Our work has just begun. It’s going to be an interesting ride methinks.
As long as we recognize two things.
1. We will not have justice on our terms.
2. As Oscar notes, there is wisdom in some measure of reconciliation, but it must come with lots of Truth.
it’s the truth part that is so hard to come by. Now that the repigs have set the standard for obfuscation and the shredding trucks take over the next phase of the transition, truth will be hard to uncover. I have little confidence that the new administration will open the windows on either what has transpired in our names or what will happen going forward. They say sunshine is the best disinfectant. But I’ve lived in the pacific northwest and my guess is that’s the kind of climate we have to look forward to.
I wish I could share in the elation that so many will be feeling if/when Obama wins. Just not feeling it.
that in order to govern he has to be able to take the high road. Unlike Bush, he knows he will be governing us all and he need buy in from the people for some of the tough measures to come. Bush has damn near trashed every corner of the US and we are looking at the Aegean stables version of s**t.
But I would love it if he 1) clean out Gitmo first thing, 2) cleaned out DoJ next, 3) add 2 more judges to SCOTUS and appointed an hispanic woman and a black woman to that body (and it wouldn’t hurt if one of them were lesbian!) and finally finally finally sets independent prosecutors looking into the AGgate and asking where our money went in the Iraq conflict.
to say that the crimes have been REPUBLICAN crimes is itself an injustice; many Democrats were and still are in the vanguard of the warmongers and capitalist predators. In the Obama campaign the foxes are in charge of the henhouse.
The ills that beset the US polity, economy, and culture are not facilely defined as ‘Republican’ or ‘Democrat,’ they are more accurately defined as “consistent with Constitutional principles” or not.
would be a good thing. That would leave the Democrats as the party of the center-right and perhaps we could see the rise of a true progressive party in America.
I know. Probably not.
the destruction of REPUBLICAN party would not be a good thing, it would be an undiscerning, meat-axe approach to correcting the ills that infect the US.
The Republicans who formed small groups in strenuous opposition to bailouts spoke eloquently, intelligently, and in Constitutionally-correct terms. I believe commitment to Constitutional principles as the Founders perceived them, not as new Democrats or Gingrich Republicans bastardize the Constitution, ought to be the surgical line along which excisions ought to take place.
We are not really talking about the party but about its componants. Why should the NeoCons get to keep coming back into administration and administration and setting our course awry? Iran/Contra happened, but the NeoCons didn’t really get knocked down as they should (Bush41 pardoned a bunch!), instead we got them back and it has cost us trillions! Then we have the “trickle down” bunch, who never really cared if anything trickled down or not. They redistributed wealth upward, not just in this administration but in other repub administrations. Tell me honestly – do you think either of those are successful theories? Do you think we should continue to bleed out until we are dead?
You also write:
Perhaps those big problems that Obama faces could be solved with a little hardheaded justice. Not in the name of vengeance but rather in the name of probity.
Of honor.
Of warning to other potential miscreants.
I doubt…sadly, because I think that Obama knows and understands the depth of criminality that has been in power here for 8 long years…but I doubt that he will take strong steps to prosecute the worst of the criminals.
Not because of bipartisanship, not because he fears alienating the criminals within his own party (criminals and cowards both) but because that is not the sort of path that that has thus far taken him as far as he has traveled.
Doing so would actually be a masterstroke, like the conservative poker player who finally opens up and starts taking risks once he has amassed a substantial lead and proceeds to blow the rest of the table right out of the game. All he would have to do would be to hang one Ratpub out to dry…Cheney would be my own choice; he was born to take the villain’s role…and the word would be out.
The full power of a revitalized Justice Department, aimed at the crimes of Dick Cheney?
Fuggedaboudit!!!
The investigation would shine a bright light into all of the dark corners of this kleptocracy, and the American people would support the effort.
However…Barack Obama has gone along to get along all of his life, and I believe that he will continue to play hjs cautious game.
So it goes.
If wishes were horses, Dick Cheney would be pummelled by many a hoof.
So it goes.
Onward and upward.
In a typically deliberate and safe manner.
Later…
AG
[quote]Do not mess with this President. He means business.
[/quote]
To be fair, with the way he has run this campaign, I think the word is already out that he’s not someone to be messed with. With all hope, he will carry that over into the White House.
Nothing will happen while BO has Cass Sunstein as an advisor. Nothing.
One thing that troubles me a bit is that there seems to be an attitude in some Democratic quarters which sounds more like something my 10 year old nephew might say, “If I can’t have the shiny new bicycle for Christmas then I don’t want any presents at all”.
Obama most likely will not be a progressive’s dream as President. But after the last eight years, hey, I’m not going to complain if/when he triumphs over McCain and the GOP lizard brains. To use a football metaphor, this is the first drive early in the first quarter of what will probably be a very long and difficult game. I’m not going to believe the game is won if we march right down the field and score. But I’m certainly not going to ask that our points not be put on the scoreboard just because it likely won’t be the only touchdown scored in the game, by either team.
Be happy. Think of the alternatives. But don’t think that the work is anywhere near done.
Besides the ballot box, besides the overwhelming (well, hopefully) repudiation next Tuesday, I really would like to see one or two convictions of very high-level Bush administration appointees. I’m talking cabinet level or higher.
from Dissident Veteran for Peace: http://vfpdissident.blogspot.com/2008/10/voting-as-rite-and-beltaines-fire-on.html
Appreciate the tone of your response, Boo.
Since the blogosphere has done most of the heavy lifting since the Clinton Impalement, I would propose that we will now have to be in charge of the heavy lifting for truth and reconciliation.
It NEEDS to happen. Just because the Beltway wants to live in denial and delusion doesn’t mean that the rest of society can obtain sanity and sober reflection.
Kos had a good idea that, apparently, is heading in the direction of all great movements — mediocrity. It’s the same thing that happens to a mutual fund that starts making money…once it makes REAL money, REAL money shows up and chokes it to death until the fund managers have to close it to new investors.
Desmond Tutu did what he did because he was a healer, first, and a religious figure, second.
The healers need to take this one over, Boo. The angle we need to approach it from is one of psychological trauma, psychological abuse, destruction of the public commons for private gain, pathological lying, murder and the pathologies of excess wealth, privilege and power over time.
I think it’s clear that the leadership class will not turn the light on itself, so we have to. And it has to be a sustained and a sustainable effort — plenty of opportunity to expend all that negative, revenge-based energy into a sobering reconciliation and resolution to higher things.
We need to secure the Internet as a public commons that is beyond the ability of private interests to manipulate, distort or control. Once we have that almost complete, then we need to pick the bones of these carrion-men clean in the most methodical, satisfying manner possible.
There’s something to be said for the mercy of the proverbial gunshot to the head because it is far cleaner and healthier to simply entangle the prey in a web of its own deceit and consume it at one’s leisure.
I’m working through some thoughts on Bacon’s Ants, Spiders, and Bees; spiders weave their own webs of deceit, but the direction my thinking has been going is that the innocent most often get caught in the web, in fact, that’s the whole reason for spinning the web — to ensnare the innocent to aggrandize the spinner.
What a concept – healing by gun.
This morning I turned on my teevee to catch up on world events and heard this: “Get the facts at gun down Obama dot com” on CNN in Minnesota.
The horror! Is there a place in the USA where such things are left unsaid? Certainly not the internet, nor the frog pond. We are a very sick nation – last throes indeed.
I used to feel like Mme Defarge – but no more, think I outgrew it.
Not any more.
re 1. a. see comment downthread; our vote has been manipulated to the point that it only serves to make the people complicit in the evil acts of their leaders, much like the Bush admin. manipulated the UN into warring on Iraq.
I don’t believe in Justice, it’s impossible for humans right now. (I subscribe to Fairness as Process.)
My vote is revenge.
I don’t think the AZRepublic is part of the Village, but they are definitely conservative. There’s also language in that editorial that reminds me of small town protectionism of one of their own. They forget that the Phoenix metro area is bigger than Philly, though.
Kos has the AZ poll up. McCain is effing doomed.
i saw that, cackled maniacally, and forwarded it to all my friends and family who I’ve been harassing for months that think that McCain will win the state handily.
Saw somewhere that Obama is up 20% in my county. If that’s true, he has a real shot. We are the blue part of the state, and a state-level Dem has to run the margin up bigtime down here to counter suburbia in the Phoenix metro area to win. Of course, I also read that McCain is only up three percentage points in central suburbia, so he may really be doomed.
heh, good luck, my friend.
truth be told, i’m more excited at the possibility of a Dem takeover of the state house of reps. both chambers of the state leg are controlled by batshit insane members of the GOP. sheriff joe will probably be reelected, unfortunately, but if the tenor of the state capital changes, maybe things will improve.
First of all, let me say “Amen.”
Second, as to what the next administration can do or will do, I have what you might call a “meta-comment.”
Obama’s electoral victory, and even more his inauguration, will be major historic events. Not even so much because he will be the first black president, but more because of the contrast he will pose to the the last eight years, and even the last 28 years, of American history.
The very fact of his election, in all likelihood by a landslide, together with his “long coattails” in Congress, will set in motion what many have described as a “tectonic shift” in American politics.
There has been much talk of the Republicans continuing the dirty tactics of the campaign into what will resemble, or be even worse than, their constant harrassment of the Clintons. They will definitely do this, but to vastly less effect. No one but the 25-percenters will pay any attention to them. They will resemble the Far Right of the 1930s, llike Gerald L.K. Smith, etc. Very nasty, but unable to cause much harm.
People forget that there have always been wingnuts, what’s abnormal about the last 30 years is that they have been a major force in American politics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_L._K._Smith
You can’t get rid of them, but they will go back to the fringe where they belong.
What I’m trying to say is that, over all, the political atmosphere in this country will be very different from what we have become accustomed to over the past three decades.
Obama is someone who understands something that the Clintons just never did understand — how to get the power of an inspired constituency behind you. Whatever you think of the Clintons, they are “top-down” politicians. They beguile the electorate to get them into office; Obama has the support of the people that will help him carry out (to a large extent) truly popular measures.
Under these conditions, we really don’t know what this administration will be able to accomplish, but I expect it will be more than many people think, who are simply transposing the game of 1990s-2000’s politics into the next era.
I hope I’m not coming off sounding too starry eyed here. All I’m trying to say is that what Obama will have accomplished by the very fact of winning this election will be unprecedented, and even the yellow dogs and the Rahm Emanuels know they will have to adjust. The Washington game will not work in quite the same way. The precedent is the FDR landslide of 1932. This is at least part of the reason why so many Republicans are jumping ship now — they know the jig is up.