A blogger named Ed J posted the following comment on a Booman post (The Liberal Craving for Partisan Language) regarding President Obama’s choices regarding how he talks about what he is doing.
I’d like [Obama] to explain why this is…”necessary and will benefit the country”:
Obama Widens Missile Strikes Inside Pakistan
By MARK MAZZETTI and DAVID E. SANGER
Two strikes targeted a militant network that seeks to topple the Pakistani government but has not had a major role in attacks on U.S. troops.
I’m fearing nightmares in which Obama clears brush on a Texas ranch.
My answer to this comment follows.
(I’ll give you a hint…it’s about the real world as opposed to the lefitness dream worlds in which so many bloggers seem to live. Bet on it.)
You’d like him to explain it to you, eh Ed? I will explain it to you instead. (President Obama’s a little…busy now.)
Until I actually experienced a few weeks in North Africa recently I did not realize the depth of the hatred that is building in the Muslim and/or Arabic world for the United States and Judeo-Christian/Greco-Roman Western Civilization in general. It is already more deeply ingrained in the population than was opposition to the U.S. in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War. (I was there for a while, too. You can smell things like that on the street if you have developed a good enough nose.) A great deal of this viral surge has to do with the power of the media. Just as is the case in the U.S., the media makes up the vast majority of the people’s so-called minds in those countries, and in the Muslim world these media are either blatantly trying to impose Western values upon the population or equally blatantly preaching anti-Western hatred. The hatred is winning, mostly because the westward-leaning stations are simply regurgitating the same crap that works in the West but looks ludicrous in the face of conditions in the Muslim world. What possible connection to Law and Order or CNN News can be felt by a working class or below Egyptian or Pakistani living in relative poverty under a fierce and vicious military dictatorship? (Remember…we exported prisoners to these places so that they could be tortured by real, highly experienced experts in the field.) Please. It’s ludicrous ion the face of it. But some finger-shaking mullah exhorting the people to follow Allah’s (supposed) way against The Great Satan even if it means martyrdom? Hell…that’s music to their ears.
So it goes.
The viral spread of this hatred has already reached epidemic proportions no matter what you may hear from pacifists and apologists of other sorts in this culture and there is not a goddamned thing that we can do about it except try to back offa their feed trough and continue to set up defenses in case the backing off is not successful in halting the ongoing rush to jihad.
There it is. Like it or lump it.
Notice that Barack Obama has aged about 10 years in the last few months?
Check it out.
He has seen the naked truth of the matter, perhaps for the first time. People have walked into his office and laid it all out for him. Bet on it. Not ideologues…pros. Professional trouble watchers on any number of levels, probably mostly people who were not allowed within a mile of Preznit Butch for fear of queering the ongoing multi-trillion dollar Iraq hustle . We are now caught between a number of rocks and an equal number of hard places. We are caught economically AND militarily, the result of 60+ years of misgovernment. The alarm bells are going off on the bridge of the USS Titanic and the Captain is beginning to realize the seriousness of its position.
And he is doing what he can to both buy some time and lessen the seriousness of the multiple impacts that are still to come.
You write:
Two strikes targeted a militant network that seeks to topple the Pakistani government but has not had a major role in attacks on U.S. troops.
That is utter bullshit. The so-called “Pakistani government” is a jury-rigged construct that is held in place by military force and functions (at least partially) as a creature of Western forces. The equally so-called “opposition” is trying to bring it down so that they can run the country as a totally anti-Western construct, and if you think that such an eventuality doesn’t potentially mean more dead Americans then you have your head so far up your ass that you are mistaking your polyps for Katie Couric’s new hairdo. (By the way, if this thing goes nuclear those dead Americans could quite possibly include you and your loved ones out there in Topeka or wherever the hell you think that are living. )
Obama as Bush?
I think not.
He may be many things and not all of them good, but he is NOT an ignorant, powerless Cheney-run figurehead. He is a hands-on president and he will be hands-on for another four years minimum if of course some segment of the PermaGov does not decide to take him out first.
Get used to it.
He has been handed a nearly impossible job and he is doing what he can to bring us through this crisis. He has the lives of millions balanced in his hands and he is most obviously a good-hearted man.
I do not envy him.
Don’t pile your shit on top of his load. It is liable to be the turd that breaks the camel’s back.
MAN I am growing to dislike the leftiness clone world!!!
Later…
AG
Please make sure that you are not targeting your own feet.
Thank you and good night.
Sleep well.
AG
.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates “turned the old way of doing things on its head.”
“Instead of immediately denying civilian deaths, which deeply angers Afghans and with good reason, he said the U.S. will instead immediately investigate, make apologies and provide amends where appropriate,” she said.
The U.S. released photos of Ryan talking with Afghan elders and embracing a mourning man.
On the other hand … Bush Afghan detainee policy upheld by Obama
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."You say these “trouble watchers” that were not allowed near Bush are the reason Obama is bombing the “militants” exactly as Bush did.
Does that make sense in your world?
Bush was a stopped clock that happened to be correct once in a while.
For all the wrong reasons.
Say what you will about Obama…he is no stopped clock.
And consider his options in the case of Pakistan.
A nuclear power completely controlled by an enemy many of whose adherents believe that total jihad against the godless west is literally God’s will?
Pakistan makes Iran look like Sweden in terms of potential threat level.
Bet on it.
AG
Why the half-stepping parroting of Bush’s candy assed approach of a missile here and a missile there?
If the threat is real, Obama needs to invade the country and bring about regime change. If it isn’t, he should get the fuck out.
What he’s doing now is increasing the hatred of America which you decry without producing any tangible results.
A la George W. Bush.
I’m not going to argue here that missile strikes in Pakistan are making us safer because I don’t really know and I can see many ways in which they may not.
However, your statement that if elements in Pakistan are a threat then we should invade and bring about regime change is just a flat-out ignorant statement.
For starters, the problem in Pakistan is that there is no government control of the tribal regions where these strikes are taking place. You can change the regime in Islamabad a hundred times and you won’t solve the problem. Secondly, the overriding reason why there are terrorists that want to kill us in the first place is that we do things like dictate to Muslim people who their leaders will be and invade and dethrone those that get out of line, or orchestrate coups against them. If a missile strike is going to rile people up, how much more an invasion. Third, with what army and what money do you expect Barack Obama to invade and occupy Pakistan if there is indeed a threat emanating from there? Even if invasion were the safest course, resources are too thin to do that right now and other measures would have to be taken. Again, I’m not saying missile strikes are helping because I have reason to believe they may be counterproductive. But your argument against them is not a good one.
It would produce exactly what we HAVE produced in Afghanistan. My point is that the Bush approach was counterproductive two months ago and it’s counterproductive now. We need to reclaim the worldwide support which we had following 9/11/01 and lobbing missiles into yet another country is not going to bring that about.
from the sounds of this one, it appears (emphasize ‘appears’) to be the cost of doing business, i.e., a little favor for the folks in Rawalpindi. We do one for them, they look the other way when we do one for ourselves. Regardless, I don’t have enough information to know what these strikes are accomplishing. I share your concerns, but not your certitude.
.
PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AFP) – A suicide bomber ran into a crowd of mourners at the funeral Friday of a slain Shiite Muslim leader in northwest Pakistan, killing 30 people and triggering riots by enraged mobs.
Witnesses told of horrifying scenes after the explosion rocked Dera Ismail Khan, a town with a history of sectarian violence on the edge of the Sunni-majority nation’s restive tribal areas.
“The head and a foot of the suicide bomber has been found at the scene. The bomber appeared to be 20 years old with a beard,” he added.
The bombing came two weeks after 35 people died in a suspected suicide bomb attack against Shiite worshippers in the Punjab town of Dera Ghazi Khan, in what was one of Pakistan’s deadliest sectarian attacks.
“The government must stop the genocide of Shiites in Dera Ismail Khan. They are killing us, attacking our houses and do not spare even our funerals,” said Hussain from hospital.
Troops took control of Dera Ismail Khan and imposed an indefinite curfew. Residents shut themselves in their homes, closing all shops and businesses, police said.
≈ Cross-posted from my diary — Sharia Imposed on Tribal Pakistan in Taliban Peace Deal ≈
● Shari’a Deal Could Give Pakistani Judges Unprecedented Power
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."If he could do so and win…an impossibility as has been proven by the Iraq debacle…that might be a good idea.
But he cannot.
There is no ‘winning” in that sort of effort. Eventually the occupiers are outnumbered and outgunned, and there you are back to the original three other options.
!-Bomb ’em back into the Stone Age. (And let the nuclear Pandora once and forever out of her box.)
2-Do just what Obama suggests…tactical strikes and diplomacy. (Which of course includes diplomacy’s its inevitable partner, covert action.)
3-Total withdrawal…which would essentially mean total withdrawal from all non-U.S. affiliated areas of the world. I actually think that this is the ultimate strategic aim of Obama, but it cannot happen until this nation is once again pretty much energy independent. The power vacuum that a move of that sort would create if done in a sudden manner would be filled by forces that are actively hostile to the U.S. for either ideological and/or economic reasons, and the resultant hike in fuel prices would crash the system.
Thus we are lift with #2.
The middle path.
Which is Obama’s main style of competition anyway.
And there we are.
So it goes.
AG
“tactical strikes and diplomacy” were a team.
You have apparently led a very sheltered life.
AG
if I had a higher opinion of your intellect.
Make believe you do respect my intellect.
Just for fun.
Tell me how you came to the conclusion that diplomacy and military action have not been the two hands of survival on every level of human life throughout the history of humankind from the individual right through tribalism and on into the greatest powers that have ever existed here.
I’d love to know.
AG
When the ship’s headed for the iceberg, it’s a bit too late to complain about the rash of petty thefts on the Lido deck.
we’re all being distracted, arguing over the Durand line…AF-Pak. Sure, when the Pakistan event occurs — inevitable — the bunker won’t save us.
But until then, mid 2011, the real threat is here at home class warfare triggered by those financial WMDs aka derivatives that brought down the system. The Santellis’ Class War and greedy Bank of America.
When is enough enough from these heartless SOBs??
Guess with their shares under $2 and looking for another TARP handout they’ll grab every penny.
It’ll be a long time before the recovery says Volcker.
Face it, America is done. Over roasted.
.
Accident gare de l’Ouest (Paris) le 22 Octobre 1895
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."I knew where it came from.
Does that mean that you think the image is not a proper one to use as an illustration of the current U.S. clultural and economic train wreck?
Just askin’…
AG
.
No underlying issue, just interested in what must have been a major news headline in that era (1895) of a speeding locomotive that crashed through the railroad station in Paris. The locomotive was US made (Westinghouse), however no right wing issue here as the Montparnasse station is on the left bank of the Seine in Quartier Latin and near the Sorbonne University. Paris’ heart for liberal issues, change and revolt.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."Utter fucking “bush doctrine=bama doctrine” MIC supporting PNAC bullshit propaganda.
WOW.
Paranoia much?
All them dark skinned peep out to get us, huh? Preemptive kills are agood thing.
What part neo-con have you been hiding from us, AG?
Dude, you done jumped the shark.
I told you what was going to happen a year ago. Obama and Hillary Clinton are both owned by the same interests. Those interests are not the same ones that owned BushCo. If you missed the real story of the Plame outing/yellowcake saga, here it is. That was one part of the story of the left and right wings of the PermaGov competing for dominance. Another part of the story? The dominance of the Dems in electoral results since 2006. The “left” won. It ain’t going to get any leftier or Kucinich/Paul etc. would have been given positive media play during the primaries instead of being dunked as thay were.
Neo-con?
Hardly.
A realistic observer of what is going down?
In AND out of the country.
Yup.
Sorry that you don’t like it.
A lot of mafia guys like Italian food.
So do I.
Does that make me a mob guy?
Get real.
AG
And there is the heart of the difficulty right there. To back off we would have to give up our claim for the control of Middle Eastern oil resources, which we will never, ever do until we are close to being “energy independent.” But until we reduce our energy usage by something like 80%–remember, President Carter was ignomiously bounced from the White House in 1980 for much less drastic proposals–energy independence will remain a mere crack-head dream.
So will we end up being nuked because we refuse to stop driving around in our cars all the time?
It is actually more complicated than that. More likely, we will ultimately be allowed to implode.
Still, it is the course we have committed to, and price we are willing to pay.
You are right Gaianne. The U.S. has no shot at seriously reducing its dependence on motorized, road-based transportation for individuals and goods. Maybe it can do so by 20% or 30% over a decade or so, but no more. The infrastructure change that would be necessary to achieve a change of that magnitude would be impossible to pull off. It can however seriously reduce the amount of energy needed to fuel that style of transportation both by the use of new technologies and by mass transit solutions, and it can also make other energy necessities more efficient…heating, cooling, manufacturing, lighting etc. A percentage point here, another there? They all add up. I believe that this is the long-term strategic goal of the Obama administration.
Tactically, however…there are so many obstacles in the way of the achievement of this goal that it looks almost as if it is an impossible =dream.
Gotta start somewhere. Energy reforms at home coupled with a strong presence against foreign enemies appears to be Obama’s tactical choice in this area, but other problems…economic ones particularly, both in terms of the economy itself and the natural resistance of hugely powerful corporations to any changes that even temporarily reduce profits…work against that tactical decision. And so does the resistance from the left, the insistence on “peace” at any cost even if that peace threatens to produce a potential collapse of the system that would result in much more violent results both for the world and for America.
We have to remember that Obama was hired to run and protect America. He appears to be intelligent enough to know that such a job entails “peace”, but he also appears to be intelligent enough to recognize that said peace cannot be achieved through total surrender to truly hostile forces and further that even if he did try to make such a move he would be either politically or physically removed from office before he succeeded in doing so. Thus his middle way.
This man is not a stone, conscienceless killer any more than were Abraham Lincoln or Franklin Roosevelt, and his rapid aging since he assumed office is testimony to that fact.
He is conflicted. Anyone of conscience would be conflicted in his position. He signs orders that will certainly result in the loss of human lives and the ruination of many more…there is no way to ensure that all of those lives will be of enemy combatants, of course…and then goes home to his fine wife and innocent girl children.
Conflict?
I think so.
People like Reagan and Nixon and Bush were psychologically blanked out enough so that this sort of conflict did not much torture them, in my opinion, and others of the Cheney/Kissinger ilk actually got off on the power. But this man? I think not. He is just doing his job to the best of his ability.
He is just trying to do his job.
The leftiness clones who are presently ganging up on him? They are on automatic complaint pilot and they are proof of the observation that the so-called “left”…at least the non-working class “left” that dominates the so-called liberal political palaver in this country…is and always has been by and large a soft, self indulgent, middle-class construct that is basically not good for much of anything except to be used as a voting bloc by canny politicians and then discarded as a fair weather ally.
So it goes.
We have a decent man of conscience in the White House now, one who is a far better politician than Jimmy Carter and more in control of his baser instincts than was Bill Clinton. Let us allow him do his job for a while. If it all starts to fall apart, then it’s back to the drawing board. Meanwhile these knee-jerk cries of “Ahhhh, he’s just another crass politician who does not care who or what he hurts just so long as he gets his way” are if anything driving him further right.
Let’s see how well or badly he does his job before going after his ass.
I think it’s all going to work out, myself.
Not easily and not particularly comfortably for many of us, but as Winston Churchill said of old age, “The alternative is totally unacceptable.”
We shall see.
Soon enough.
We shall certainly see.
Later…
AG
Indeed.
And, for example, local organic food–farming (including joining or helping Community Supported Agriculture) and gardening–is a place where individuals and small groups can make a difference right away. This will matter, this year.
The Federal Government has no good options, and I am spending less of my time second-guessing the bad ones.
Agree: Obama is not a psychopath, and that IS a change!
hoping “permagov” sees it that same way, and has an interest in ensuring Obama has a chance to do his job. what do you think?
Except for some superficial mia culpa’s from former Bush administration now Obama administration officials there is no difference between Obama and Bush. Six weeks ago Gates would have simply given anyone the finger for having the temerity to question his civilian bombing deaths in illegal Pakistan bombings, today he mumbles a mia culpas and goes on to the next bombing run staff meeting.
Big fucking difference.
America is an authoritarian nation under Obama just as it was an authoritarian nation under Bush. So far the only change is just skin deep.