Why are guns at political protests bad? It’s not because they may pose a threat to political figures like President Obama (though they do), it’s because guns at such events can serve only two purposes. One of those is to silence legitimate free speech and peaceful asssembly through the use of intimidation. The other one? They can be used to shoot people. Any people who just happen to be in and around the area. For example:
ROSEANN CANFORA: The shooting itself took thirteen seconds. The photograph that you’ve probably seen and many of the historic photographs of that day, where Alan was carrying the black flag, he was the student activist who walked closest to the Guard when they were on the field. So there’s a photograph of us in the Davies book where he walks close to them with the black flag, and I could see they were aiming at him. So I said, “This is—you know, they’re aiming their guns. Let’s, you know, get out of here.” And he said, “I want to see where they’re going,” because that’s when they started their ascent.
I went back to the parking lot. Alan stayed, you know, down in that area. And like I said, when the shooting started, thirteen seconds of gunfire. If you look at a watch and you watch a secondhand tick by, you realize what a hideously long time that is for men with gas masks and steel helmets to look through the scopes of their weapons, aim into the crowd in the distance, of unarmed college students, and then to fire for thirteen long seconds. […]
Three feet behind me was the body of Bill Schroeder. He was an ROTC student who was against the war. And I could tell that he was dead. He had blood splattered all over his neck, and he had been shot in the back. And I saw someone attending to a young woman in the Prentice parking lot. That dorm you see over there, I mean, like as far away as the last car that you see there, is where Sandy Scheuer was. I saw Bill Schroeder there. I ran over to Sandy. Sandy was a friend of mine. She was so grey, because she’d been shot through the jugular vein over 300 feet away. And it’s that moment when I had seen two students prone, and both of them dead, that I remembered that the last place I saw Alan would have put him directly in the line of fire.
So I started running across the parking lot and toward the body of Jeff Miller, just praying that it wasn’t Alan. And it was just when I came upon Jeff’s body that one of Alan’s friends came up behind me and said Alan and Tom both got hit.
It was—I was nineteen. It was surreal at that moment to see people lying dead. But what was most shocking was not just watching these soldiers, American soldiers, making that ascent and then turning and shooting at us, but once they did that horrific deed, as people lay dying, they turned and walked away, went down that hill and left them there. These armed soldiers that were sent to this campus to protect life and property just took life and walked away.
That was state sponsored violence used to intimidate and kill antiwar protesters and innocent bystanders because some bank building windows had been broken earlier in the week of protests. Completely different situation, you might say. But what mechanism exists to prevent “private” gun owners from gathering at rallies and deciding that they have the right to defend themselves from unarmed people who disagree with them? Maybe people shouting at them, arguing with them. Do you really think that the security and law enforcement personnel at these events, whose focus is primarily on the protection of the politicians, would be able to stop a determined group of individuals with guns exercising their “second amendment” right to bear arms if a massacre broke out, whether through mistake or as part of a design by said group to instigate such violence and create martyrs for their cause when law enforcement eventually responded with return fire?
We’ve already seen incidences of politically motivated murders against innocent people by gun toting right wing terrorists in the the case of FOX News junkie, Jim Adkisson, the murder of Dr. George Tiller by Scott Roeder and Holocaust Museum shooter and white supremacist James Von Brunn. In the face of the frequent hatred expressed and veiled threats made against President Obama and his supporters in the media, is it wise to dismiss such fears as ludicrous, as Megan McArdle, a libertarian blogger at The Atlantic has done? Frankly, you have to question the sanity of people brandishing firearms at political events, but even moreso, the intelligence of conservatives who assert this is no big deal. Would they have said the same thing if armed antiwar protesters had appeared outside events staged by former President Bush or Vice President Cheney? I highly doubt it.
Reasonable people can disagree, we are told. However, there is no good reason to bring armed weapons to a political event. None at all. And laughing off the concerns of Obama’s supporters and others who want to see health care reform passed regarding the attendance of armed private citizens at political gatherings is a priori unreasonable.
There is a good reason to have guns at protests, but watch what happens when folks in Healthcare for Americans Now tee shirts show up at a protest with a weapons and saying “jes excersizing my constitushunal rights” when asked what they are doing.
The folks who brought guns to the presidential town halls in New Hampshire and Arizona (both open carry states) were not seeking to harm Obama (they may be dumb but they’re not stupic), they were there to provoke us lefties to get our panties in a twist about it. And to present an incident that they could point back to later to assuage exactly the fears you are expressing — in order to remove all restrictions on gun ownership in every state. And if challenged in their “constitutional rights”, they could then go screaming on Fox, “Obama’s trying to take away our guns.”
Fortunately, the Secret Service didn’t take the bait.
It’s not the guns that are openly carried to worry about. It’s the ones that are concealed. And concealed without a conceal carry permit.
People with permitted weapons tend to want to keep those permits and killing someone at a protest who is unarmed is not a real good way to do that. It’s much better to be working in official capacity, such as active duty police or National Guard. Just ask the guy who was adjutant general of the state of Ohio in 1970. After that, the mommas and poppas told their college students to shut up, sit down, study, and get a good job. Campus protests in 1971 were almost non-existent. By 1972, the adults and Vietnam Vets against the War had become the main source of opposition. The situation in NH and AZ and that one are radically different situations.
And it is very interesting that the AZ radio station sent out a movement conservative black man to carry that AR-15, one dressed in a white shirt and tie and very articulate about what he was about. No doubt they clued the cops in on the publicity stunt.
I wonder what would happen if some of these 2nd Amendment loving right-wingers were greeted by some 2nd Amendment loving left-wingers.
Would Fox News suddenly start talking about “intimidation”? Would Glenn Beck cry again?
Exactly, there was a story at TPM I think of guy who was doing just that, bringing his handgun to the rallies. I can only approve.
If any guntoting leftwingers do this, here is some tips:
Make sure that your permit covers what you intend to do
Make nice with everyone; treat your heat as if is just a fashion accessory
Don’t try to take it inside any building
Make sure that you are specifically identified as a leftie with your tee shirt or whatever
Stay cool no matter what
Explain that you are just exercising your Second Amendment rights and that you don’t see any qualifications that say that lefties can’t carry heat just like righties.
Above all, obey the law and if it gets unequally applied, don’t push your claims.
Remember that this is kabuki not war
Not yet…
They do seem to be under the false impression that liberals are any less well-armed in the US than conservatives. While I think it would be a tremendously bad idea for us to brandish our weapons at these events, it might discourage some of the right’s insurrectionist fantasies if we found some other way to make sure they know just how many armed Democrats there are.
This Democrat is armed, anyway. I’ll be happy to give it up, mind you, but only if they have to disarm, too.
It’s not just a “false impression.” The right-wing has actively built up a fantasy about liberals being peace-nik girly-men. It makes their base feel he-man superior and allows them to indulge in imagining how easily we could eliminated.
We can, of course, blame ourselves for letting them think this way because we — quite rightly — put so much emphasis on peaceful protests. Kent State would have gone down quite differently — and horrifically — if the students had been armed and shot back at the National Guard! One shudders to think of the martial law that would have followed…
The primary problem that all wing-loons have is the failure to project the consequences of their revolutionary fantasies. They’ve watched “Red Dawn” one too many times. The government has bigger defensive organizations and more powerful arms than we citizens do, so the result of any violent anti-government action will be the opposite of its intention. In other words, using violence to “defend your freedom” will result in the actual loss of everyone’s freedom.
For example, when the Weathermen blew up shit to protest the war in Vietnam, they didn’t hasten the end of that conflict. They justified the expansion of domestic spying and brought shame on the cause they claimed to support. If these gun-toting right-wing-nuts do resort to violence, they are gonna bring about the very thing they fear — the government taking away all of our guns!
We will start nothing. NOTHING. But if they start a war, we are damn well going to finish it.
I hear you. I’m still getting calls from the Army recruiters after making inquiries about the maximum enlistment age right after Rick Perry made his first remarks about Texas seceding. The poor schlubs who keep making these calls seem terribly disappointed that I’m not interested in shooting Arabs, just Republicans.
Well, strictly speaking, I’m not really interested in shooting Republican secessionists. What I’m looking forward to is finally being able to apply high-school trigonometry to plotting artillery trajectories. Preferably when said secessionists are holed up in the Museum of Creationism.
Interestingly, the result of the Weathermen’s bombing campaign ran exactly parallel to that of similar urban terrorism on the part of South American communist insurgents. Of course, the communists knew exactly what the response would be; they were hoping for it. Their theory was that the government would become so oppressive that the largely indifferent populace would rise up against it. Unfortunately, what actually happened was that the government became so oppressive that an uprising was no longer possible.
Oops.
It would save us a lot of grief if fans of The Turner Diaries knew a bit more about South American history.
What’s the big deal about OPEN CARRY at a political event? If the law says you can do it, do it. I find it a little rich that it’s supposedly bad when it’s a POLITICAL rally.
I say go for it. If people break the law, arrest ’em. If not, go for it.
Pax
It’s a bad idea because of the very nature of politics, which exists in the first place to restrain violence. For all of the hoity-toity talk about lofty political ideals, at the end of the day, a political system — practically any political system, including even the nastier ones — is at root an arrangement to replace the natural tendency of human beings to devolve into small, armed groups enforcing their claims by the constant threat and use of force. Political activity is essentially sublimated violence. There is no kind of public gathering more likely to result in violence than the meeting of opposing political camps. Taking that kind of tinderbox and introducing modern arms is tremendously, tremendously dangerous.
That notion only makes sense in a legal system where everything is by default illegal and the law authorizes specific permissions. Ours is a system where everything is by default legal except for those things specifically prohibited — which is why we have a distinction between legality and ethicality. It’s perfectly legal, apparently, to plunder the banking system, but it most certainly is not ethical. The same applies to taking actions — like packing heat at a political confrontation — that increase the likelihood of innocent people being killed. Sure, you can (maybe) find and arrest the lawbreakers afterward, but that won’t do a damn bit of good for the dead.
You miss the kabuki. Those actions were intended to draw the media away from the real event. These folks are not creating Wacos or Ruby Ridges at political events. They are doing everything they legally can do, punctiliously legally can do, to provoke a reaction of hostility. In an open carry state or in Arizona, which is an unpermitted open carry state, they doing what they are doing coyly. So the appropriate response is to coyly mirror what they are doing just to let folks know that progressives might be just as armed as them. Politics has somewhat broken down when some folks feel that this sort of kabuki is necessary. But quietly calmly, coyly, responding in kind can have a deterrent, not an inflammatory effect.
Like I said above, it’s the concealed weapons, not the openly carried ones to be concerned about.
And these folks can only get away with this in open carry states, like NH and AZ.
Philosophically, I agree with your argument but we don’t get back to that arrangement to replace the natural tendency to devolve into small armed groups with political order by discussing it. Almost thirty years of NRA propaganda has shut down that option.
You don’t go armed for a fight. You go armed to resist the implied intimidation with a subtle symbolic maneuver.
Can it get out of hand? Yep, but so can the current situation in which people start testing limits. Like I said, the Secret Service was pitch perfect in the way that it handled these incidents.
So if they want to draw attention the media that way, we can draw more attention with the “man bites dog” story “progressives in support of the Second Amendment”. And it sucks the air out of the Obama’s gonna take away your guns fearmongering.
I’d take it one step further and make sure that the armed progressives are primarily people of color – see how quickly the yokels will spin on a dime and begin supporting gun control…