When the speech is over people are probably going to say it was a great speech. Obama gives great speeches. But a speech isn’t going to change much. What we’d really like is some guidance on how to fight for this bill. That’s what we didn’t get before the recess. Instead, we were forced to fight phantoms and bullshit. If Obama can fix that problem, then I’ll consider the speech successful. If he sticks it to the obstructionist Republicans, all the better. If he points at Joe Lieberman, asks him to stand up, and kicks him out of the caucus, I’ll call it a home run.
About The Author
BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
I’d call it a home run if he called Baucus out.
I also want to hear from Halle Berry in the next few minutes…
That could work for me…
Good luck with Halle. 😉
Forget Halle. She says she won’t get up from the couch to get her cell.
What’s wrong with that? Neither will I. I rarely have it on, and rarely answer it when it rings. It’s to call OUT on, not to be chained to.
And I had this horrid thought. All those important people in one building makes me very nervous. I hope this ends quickly.
I am watching this online on msnbc. The commentators live in a different political world than I do. Earlier, they described Grassley and Enzi as “still at the table.”
Whose table?
Maybe they meant to say they were “still at the trough”.
I love Crazy Joe Biden.
If only he’d followed his dreams and gone into professional wrestling.
If he is going to be the last president to address health care then somewhere along the line is a single payer system. I take that he understands that; I’ll listen for how he plans to make that happen.
anyone else think his speech cadence is off?…l’m listening so l don’t have the visual
Yep.
A well-constructed building that is erected upon a foundation of sand will surely fall, sooner or later…
I’m waitin to see if he uses the magic words “public option”, seeing as Snowe apparently asked him not to say those words.
an insurance market exchange with /tax credits…4 yrs out.
plus catastrophic insurance to get you thru, if you pay for it…l’m not impressed.
Is it me, or is John Boehner obviously drunk?
He just called CHuck Grassley a liar.
OMG…who was that that just yelled out at the president? Has that ever happened before, or is it because the president is a black man who is a secret muslim terrorist?
Happened twice. Truly shocking.
abysmal.
They need to find out who it was and censure them…it’s unacceptable.
Agree. Let’s wait and see… I’m not holding my breath.
Joe Wilson of secessionist South Carolina.
I just sent Wilson an e-mail. THough, his website is not responding well. How despicable.
As Olbermann just said, “Apologize, resign, leave the country. It’s your choice, goober.”
An unbelievable, perhaps unprecedented, level of disrespect from the Republican side. I am honestly shocked, and I am hard to shock when it comes to Republican misbehavior. In this chamber, under these circumstances, it is truly disgraceful to have heckling from members of Congress directed towards the president of the United States.
This is getting awkward.
“Insurance companies don’t do this because they’re bad people, they do this because it’s profitable.”
<snort>
He said it: public option.
bipartisanship rears it’s ugly head…work together?….whens he going to learn that ain’t happening?
Pumping my fist re comments on deficits from past administration. woohoo!!!
Absolutely! And the asshole Reps just sat there grimacing, or checking their Blackberrys. I love it.
On a much less serious note: Watching on PBS. I’m sure other networks are having a similar problem. Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi should have consulted about outfits. In particular, Secretary Clinton looks like a bright red flounder. She is literally maxing out my tint on the TV every time she stands up.
Hillary should have been the designated off-site cabinet official tonight. Having her front & center in that bright red suit brought up distressing memories of “Hillary-Care” & the failure back then to get meaningful reform.
The Repubs don’t know what they’re for/against. They keep looking around to check if anyone else on their side is applauding. Am I for this? Am I against this?
What a waste…
In a macro sense, or historical sense, this is truly a fascinating and unique event. Far more barebones, honest, and partisan occasion than any State of the Union address. As a political scientist and historian, this is really one for the record books.
Who was that asshole holding up some piece of paper and what was he trying to indicate?
We were wondering that too.
Lots of reps. have those papers, I wonder what they are, did Rove send them out or who.
I’m guessing they are asking for his birth certificate. 😉
Love Biden tearing up. Totally genuine.
Ouch. Hard hitting. Calling them out by name! Good stuff but look at them squirm.
Thanks Mr. President, but sprinkles on this heaping pile of crap isn’t something that I’m terribly interested in swallowing. Congratulations – you’ve actually succeeded in making me ambivalent.
This ending is damn good.
Blah. Lame.
Money Quote: “We did not come here to fear the future. We came here to change it!”
skepticism of govt…l got that. it certainly hasn’t been assuaged by this.
l’m really disappointed in this speech.
what was it shakespeare wrote?…full of sound and fury, signifying nothing…the public option just got sold out, imnso.
A mealy-mouth nod to a semi-sorta Public Option and the rest is a kowtow, and a give-away to, the the existing system.
This stinks.
Sums it up quite well. Lame ass speech.
Can you imagine what would have been proposed if the Progressive Caucus hadn’t forced them to include that (so-called) Public Option™©®?
Well, being fair, if I’m not mistaken it depends a little bit on which bill’s public option we’re talking about. Some of the bills have it eventually opening up to the rest of the country gradually, some just reserve it for the uninsured eternally.
But, yeah, and not even the Progressive Caucus. The Progressives only did that because the netroots started threatening to rip them.
Anyway, nothing in this speech is going to move much. Bottom line is we’re still 5 votes down on reconciliation, and that should be the focus.
There did seem to be a strong consensus to reform one part of the existing system; tort reform.
Yeah, I’ve been waiting for him to offer up a little trial lawyer skin (to which I have little objection), but I kind of hoped he would do it in return for something, not for free.
Seems like there is a lot of discontent. I am curious. Why do people think the speech was “lame”? Why are they “disappointed” with this “crap”?
The fundamental system will go unchanged, just some tinkering along the edges – it’s much akin to offering a cancer patient a couple aspirins…
I am disappointed with this immediate reaction from the BooTrib audience, but perhaps not totally surprised– we are the most progressive of the progressive. As an idealist but also a serious student (and teacher!) of American politics and government, I have a very different reaction. Within the framework of A) pragmatism; B) reality; and C) politics, I believe that President Obama was as strong, as partisan, and as unyielding as he could have possibly been given the climate, setting, and stakes. Sure, in a fantasy world, it would have been great to hear him come out and say: SINGLE PAYER or nothing, etc., but short of that, this was as intelligent, as articulate, and still as passionate and partisan as he could possibly have been. I believe it will pay great dividends, unless you had your hopes set on a universal single-payer plan a la Canada, which I wish for but accept will never happen. This was the most compelling and convincing and understandable description of what “Health Care Reform” actually means that I would have hoped for.
I agree. I would love to see single-payer, but it is not ever going to happen. And I don’t mean never under the current political universe, I mean never ever ever, even if we have 80 seats in the Senate. You don’t legislate away a multibillion dollar business…not in a democracy. There are just too many interests working against you.
I have seen people in my family struggle to find health insurance. Even just regulating the insurance companies so they can’t drop you because of pre-existing conditions would be a major bonus for a lot of people. This is the closest we have been to universal or near universal coverage pretty much ever. And people are pissed off? I don’t get it.
True that. I’m with you 100%. I have lots of dreams but I accept that politics is the real world. We have to work in reality and get as much as we can and continue to work from there.
To paraphrase Booman, I can accept it but I don’t have to applaud it or be remotely excited about it.
I’ll try to explain it. When Republicans get 2/3rds of a loaf, they blame Democrats. See Bush tax cuts.
When progressives gets 2/3rds of a loaf, they blame the President for being weak and a sellout.
I’m not saying that they’re wrong though.
What is the distinction between A, B, and C? They seem to boil down to one argument: that Obama went as far as political reality would allow. Which is odd because I see it exactly the opposite way: Obama is trying to provide just enough change (or the illusion of change) to appease liberals so that they don’t ruin a deal. Obama is the protector of the status quo.
Also, no one is arguing single payer or nothing as you imply Obama’s critics are arguing. That’s a bit of a strawman and even the ‘most progressive of progressives’ would settle for incremental change. The public option was/is that minimal incremental change.
But I’m curious how you think this speech will pay big dividends. What do you see changing now because of this speech? Do you think it is the progressives that will now compromise and give up their demands and agree to a bill the president outlined? Or do you anticipate the Blue Dogs and Republicans compromising? Who was moved by this speech? I know I’m the left of the left but I’m not moved.
How do you see what Obama proposed tonight as the “status quo”? If a bill was passed that accomplished all or even most of what the president championed it would be the most significant, arguably “radical”, overhaul of our disfunctional health care system in history. That would be significant not only from a historical perspective (not important), but from a real, practical, human perspective.
We will not get rid of the Blues, but if they are compelled to insure people regardless of preexisting conditions, if they are compelled to continue coverage even when people get sicker or require more ‘expensive’ treatment than anticipated, and if providers are required to fully treat patients who only hold limited coverage, then we will have improved the system so dramatically from the “status quo” that it will be truly revolutionary.
I would rather get 2/3 of my ideal than nothing, even if it requires accepting lots of crap. I’m sick of losing, quite frankly, and I’d rather collect a reduced jackpot than to hold out for everything only to get nothing.
Well, you’re not describing political reality. You’ve basically adopted the White House spin, that this is some changy stuff . . . radical even . . . I see no basis in reality for saying this is radical. We’ve been debating these very issues for 50 years and single payer for all was proposed long ago and that is 100 times more radical than what Obama is half-proposing.
You heard Obama . . . the public option for 5% of Americans.
That’s significantly less than the 50 million uninsured and basically the public option has turned into a safety net for the poor. So we will subsidize the bottom 5% and then mandate millions of new customers/suckers sign up for this toxic product. It’s the insurance companies dream. Obama is running interference, pretending to keep the insurance companies honest, while directing more of the health care pie to them and making sure more radical reform for later is staved off.
You really have to be in a different world if you think Obama is proposing “radical” change. That is almost as unhinged from reality as the teabaggers. I might be willing to buy the incremental pig in a poke Obama is selling if he was at least honest about it–told me he went to Washington and all he got was this lousy compromise so we should accept it—but don’t insult my intelligence and tell me this is radical change.
He’s not fighting for radical change and calling people out. He’s just not. And I’m getting really tired of some Obama supporters trying to sell this snake oil fantasy that Obama is transforming health care.
Your best argument is that the political reality will only allow this incremental, small, change even though that arguments is a loser too.
We live in a country that now exists in fantasyland. We have a mythical past that we try to invoke when we’re not trying to recreate it. We have a fantasy economy based on nothing but debt and snakeoil sales. We have a deluded media who thinks their job is to be “moderator.” We have millions of fellow citizens who think that Obama is an uncircumcized Muslim who was born in Kenya and is the leader of some kind of Nazi conspiracy. And you think politics is reality? Fer Chrissake, that’s what the bubbleheads on my TEEVEE believe!
you just witnessed the potus blow the opportunity to make a forceful statement supporting a robust public option, that just might lead to the ultimate solution…a universal, single payer system… that even he, obama, agrees would be the best system? he just told all the dfh’s to go fuck yourself.
that work?
this is absolutely the worst speech he’s ever made.
Forgive my ignorance but who/what are dfh’s?
I believe it stands for Dumb F’ing Hippies
Seriously? Are you serious? Well, then, that doesn’t really deserve an explanation, does it? And you’re upset that the president blew off that particular ‘constituency’? I’m not.
Dirty, not dumb.
DFH
Holy SHIT!!! Are you watching this catfish? Didn’t they learn from Bobby Jindal not to choose someone from Louisiana to make their case against Obama? This actually may be an important signal– this is the best they think they can put up to make their case? Either they are throwing in the towel (on a media/intellectual/public opinion) front, or they are so truly out of touch or out of talent that this is actually the best they can come up with.
well Bill Frist retired.
The very second he stopped speaking Keith Olbermann says “he has been sued for malpractice 3 times, he is a birther, and he fell for a scam when he tried to buy the title Lord something or other”…hahaha
Seriously? I am on PBS. Are you serious? I have to see that and get the details. Delicious.
Nobody with any talent/future would willingly come behind one of the greatest rhetoricians of this generation.
This is what the papers Reps. were holding up, according to DK.
Huh. Sounds like one of Joe McCarthy’s “lists.”
Losers.
Larry King is reporting that it was Congressman Joe Wilson (SC 2) who shouted out “you lie!” when the President stated that undocumented immigrants would not be covered under his proposal. John McCain said that he was totally out of line and ought to ‘apologize immediately.’
So are undocumented immigrants covered under any bills? Don’t think so. That would make Joe Wilson a liar.
But if Joe Wilson means that undocumented immigrants won’t be allowed to die in the streets, then maybe he’s right. When a person shows up at an emergency room bleeding to death, would she/he be required to show a birth certificate with a raised seal in order get treatment?
In any case, it will be interesting to hear Wilson argue his position.
Not surprised by Wilson’s behavior. When a Republican opens his or her mouth I expect lies and insults to fly. It’s the nature of the beast.
I’m going to fight against it! It’s a mockery of reform.
Are you for real? Are you serious? You are going to “fight against it”? If this is a “mockery of reform” I don’t know what you would accept as reform. This is pretty dramatic, significant, even historical “reform” by any objective and (gasp!) RATIONAL standard. I’m sure your dream is very similar to my own, but the only way to bring change is to work within the system and to, frankly, accept “reality” and incrementalism than to tilt at windmills.
What was outlined in the speech is historic only by US standards. By world standards it’s pathetic. By “RATIONAL”, quoting you here, standards it’s also pathetic; the proposal is not Health Care Reform it’s Health Insurance Policy Reform.
The two most critical failures of US health care is our decrepit Public Health institutions and the limited access to, thus limited use of, preventive care. Obama’s Health Insurance Policy Reform addresses neither of them.
Other problems are the high cost, per world standards, for prescription drugs, the increasing specialization of doctors at the expense of availability of GPs, the lack of any medical care in the inner cities and rural areas, the astronomical costs of becoming a doctor, the hierarchical Old Boy’s Self-Protection Network – which even the girls sign onto – of the AMA, the absurd medical research and development policies and practices of the US, food policies that ensure diabetes, obesity, heart disease, an FDA that is owned by the companies they are supposed to regulate, under funded research into “alternative” medicines, drugs, and techniques, and all the other ancillary intellectual stances, financial and political interlocks, and institutions of a for-profit medical system embedded in a Neo-Classical economic system.
Again, the proposed Health Insurance Policy Reform neither addresses nor solves these.
To finish, I see no point in working for an Obama administration when they are too cowardly to, or have no interest in, getting out there and fighting for the “Change” they were elected to make and the country so desperately needs.
Please elucidate. Otherwise your position is completely untenable.
Everything he said points to the Baucus Bill, which I regard as a mockery and step in the wrong (McCain) direction.
No public option, he wants it but already says he can live without it, which is throwing it away.
Mandatory insurance, which again points to Baucus Bill with it’s draconian penalties and worthless tax credits.
Must be satisfactory to Republicans, which again sounds like the Baucus Bill with it’s penalties to insurance companies who offer decent comprehensive policies.
I intend to write both my Senators and urge them to vote against Baucus even if the President likes it.
I even forgot the tort reform crap. Drunken doctor kills you or puts you in a wheelchair for life, $50,000 max. That figure comes from a Republican tort reform bill here in Illinois. Tort reform to Republicans, whose support is critical remember, means you can’t sue and if you can you get peanuts.
Fight for what bill? The one that might include a public option? The one that Baucus reports out of committee? The co-ops? What the hell bill are we supposed to be fighting for?
a bunch of chronic malcontents sitting behind your collective computers spewing such venom against the only person that is trying to undo all the damage that has been done by the Rethugs for the last twenty/thirty years. You all want him to wave his magic wnad and give you everything you want just like that? Give me a flipping break, It is not a perfect bill but damn its a start.
Get off your collective butts and out of your jammies and run for freaken office if you all are so fucking smart. A freaken reputhug just called the president a liar and you are all okay with this? This country and its people are truly broken. You guys call yourselves progressives? As Barney Franks would say “WHat planet are you living on”. Grow up.
Where in this thread did anyone say they were okay with Wilson’s behavior?
Thank you Nancy. I mean, come on. Were these folks honestly for one second expecting the president to come out and announce/demand/promote his support or expectation for universal, single-payer health care in the US this year?
Really, I’m curious, and I’m going to ‘call you out’ Oscar, or SFHawkguy, or dada, or AtinNM, or whoever. Is that what you wanted or expected? If so, then Nancy is spot-on– get a life! There is little use in fantasy unless you’re jerking off. In politics they play for keeps, and everything the president says is real and intended for actual effect, not just fantasyland wish-list stuff.
If President Obama had come out tonight and even suggested a universal, single-payer system that would marginalize or eliminate the role of private insurance he would have been laughed out of the room and doomed his entire single term in office to failure and irrelevance. Instead, he chose to engage in a realistic yet hard-hitting exchange with his many critics in putting forth a workable and achievable proposal that would be an historic and indeed radical step towards improving this broken health care system.
For this audience to be so critical only reflects poorly on your own political savvy. Post all you want about what would be a better system in an alternative universe, but don’t expect the president to indulge fantasy just to satisfy your idealism.
you were one of maybe two that had their thoughts planted in reality. Thank you for the backup. This place has become the extreme leftie site as far as I am concerned. Don’t we have enough enemies on the right without all this bashing of our own side? I don’t necessarily agree with everything President Obama has said or done but damn people, he is trying and just look what he is up against. Gilroy has the number #1 rec’d diary here? Pathetic.
How many of you here have called, written or faxed your representatives to voice your opinions? Someone should put up a poll asking that question.