Probably no later than when it became obvious that Saddam Hussein’s Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, but definitely by the time that we saw the pictures from Abu Ghraib prison, I got the sense that if we were attacked again like we were on 9/11 the world would shrug and say, “Well, what the hell did you expect?”
Bush ran as a candidate on a foreign policy platform that emphasized humility. His presidency wouldn’t be doing feel-good interventions like Clinton had done in Kosovo. He didn’t believe in nation-building. Bush wasn’t calling for some kind of neo-isolationism, but he definitely gave the impression that his government would think long and hard before it entangled our troops in foreign countries’ affairs
Unfortunately, that was a bunch of bull-feathers. His national security advisers, with the exception of Colin Powell, were pulled from the most hawkish and interventionist elements of the Republican Party.
It would be a mistake to blame the 9/11 attacks on Bush’s foreign policy. The plot to fly airliners into our buildings was hatched during Clinton’s presidency and it was a response to Clinton’s foreign policy, especially elements of it that he carried over from the first Bush presidency. Nothing was more responsible than the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia. But our embargo of Iraq, our embrace of the Mubarak government in Egypt, and our failure to broker a decent deal for the Palestinians were also contributing factors. It all added up to leave the impression that U.S. foreign policy was hostile and disrespectful to the Muslim world. For at least some of the more radical elements of that culture, our policies were offensive enough to warrant a violent response.
But, for every strike you could make against pre-9/11 foreign policy in the Middle East, you could make a counterargument in our defense. Saddam Hussein really had tried to wipe Kuwait off the map. He really did have a WMD program at one time. Our troops were in Saudi Arabia, at least in part, to help prevent Hussein from massacring his own citizens. Our cozy relationship with Mubarak was a legacy of Jimmy Carter’s Camp David Agreements, for which he won a Nobel Peace Prize. And Clinton worked very hard to achieve a lasting peace agreement between the Israelis and the Palestinians. For most of the world, killing 3,000 innocent people in retaliation for these policies seemed either totally unjustified or totally disproportionate. In addition, the people who attacked us were hardly offering the Muslim world a more enlightened form of government. They were fundamentalist assholes.
That is why the world rallied to the United States when we were attacked.
But it didn’t take long for the world to begin changing their minds about that support. The American response to the attacks was intimidating, frightening, and just as disproportionate as the 9/11 attacks themselves. We threw out all of the values we had worked to instill into the post-World War Two international system.
Before long, it began to look like the world would not be remotely surprised if we were attacked again, and most of them would figure we deserved it.
That’s what a lot of Americans still don’t understand. You have to earn good-guy status. And you can lose it in a hurry. As David Ignatius explains in the Washington Post, the meaning of this Nobel Peace Prize can be found in Europe’s gratefulness for a return to sanity in America’s foreign policy.
If you want to understand the sentiments behind the prize, look at the numbers in the Transatlantic Trends report released last month by the German Marshall Fund. Obama’s approval rating in Germany: 92 percent compared to 12 percent for George Bush. His approval in the Netherlands: 90 percent compared to 18 percent for Bush. His favorability rating in Europe overall (77 percent) was much higher than in America (57 percent).
Here is something basic. If people like you, they are less likely to plot to kill you. When we got attacked on 9/11, we didn’t need to agree with the attackers, but we needed to understand why they hated us. Instead, we went about making everyone else hate us. That didn’t make us safer, and it didn’t make the world safer. Obama hasn’t turned around the aircraft carrier that is U.S. foreign policy. No one could do that in nine short months. But he’s won back the good will of a good portion of the international community. You can’t understand why he would receive a peace prize so early in his presidency unless you understand just how profoundly hated we had become under Bush and Cheney. The world is so grateful not to see John McCain and Sarah Palin in charge of this country, that they just want to express their gratitude.
Having said that, Obama has to get this aircraft carrier turned around for good, or this good-will will not last.
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For a yank quite good reasoning Booman, thanks. The Europeans have their sceptics about the Prize, see here and here.
The 9/11 attack and the Bush/Neocon established policy of “War on Terror” was based on division. Rumsfeld hardline policy and remarks left Europe and its people confronting one another. The fascist elements in society got a renewed chance to advocate hatred throughout Europe. The right wing elements gained in the elections and won seats in parliament. The division went into the heart of society en divided families, spouses and children. When you look closely to the confrontation of Israel and Palestinians, you’ll find the same inhumane policy, rhetoric, propaganda and lies. The will to do good became a no-no. The polls I have quoted recently do give a indication of change in attitude. Creating good-will is the base for multi-lateralism. The Norwegians also highlighted the Obama speech at the UN and his intention to support this world body, originated from Woodrow Wilson‘s time as the League of Nations. Global change takes decades, if not centuries. Therefore the Nobel Peace Prize is a thank you for ending a nightmare, thank you America for electing Barack Hussein Obama.
PS Just like Pakistan, America do have nukes too and someone carrying a small briefcase.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
Sorry, I’m a cynic. But Obama himself said
You have to give it to him, he is gifter. And he appears less full of himself than his fans are of him.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Not bad, not bad at all.
I was in Mexico during the inauguration; mexican friends phrased it the end of “la dictadura Bush”. Electing and inaugurating Obama was viewed very differently in Mexico and Latin and Central America. imo we here in the usa have been experiencing a form of battered wife syndrome during the Bush years (with he help of the msm and the “up is downism”). Thanks to the Nobel committee for giving major outside leverage and support. As TarheelDem pointed out in the Nobel thread yesterday, it’s indirectly an award to all of us for electing Obama.
I guess we were misled by his claims of humility… His presidence was all about feel-bad interventions, and destabilizing unfriendly regimes into failed states. Nation-destroying is much easier that Nation-building, even a C student can manage that.
I’m not sure the difference between the promises and the reality can all be laid at Bush’s feet. Not that I want to defend Bush, he was an incompetent buffoon who should never have been elected to the presidency. But I think 9/11 is the day the Bush presidency became the Cheney presidency. I think the belligerent, with us or against us foreign policy came right out of the paranoid fantasies of an evil, psychotic old man. 9/11 is the day the puppet master stopped believing his puppet was a real live boy.
Bush was a C+ student, incurious and lazy, preferring to “cut brush” on his production-lacking ranch to any involvement in gov; as soon as he selected Cheney, or rather, Cheney selected himself, the die was cast – it was going to be the Cheney presidency.
That in no way excuses Bush, not even minutely. If he gave Cheney unconstitutional power, it was his decision and his alone. Once somebody’s in the White House, being pathetic is no longer a mitigation.
You’re both right. I’m not defending Bush. His epic failure as President is just one more in a long line of failures. That doesn’t excuse him from the consequences, it just makes what followed all the more tragic. And it makes what Cheney did to his presidency, to our country, and to the world, all the more evil. That’s why they both need to stand in the Hague and answer for their crimes. Cheney for what he did in Bush’s and our names, and Bush for letting him do it. And right alongside them should be Rumsfeld and all the rest who made all happen.
“It all added up to leave the impression that U.S. foreign policy was hostile and disrespectful to the Muslim world.“
That impression was completely justified, and accurate. The west has been hostile and disrespectful to the Muslim world for many, many centuries, and remains so to this day despite the pretty speeches of the current U.S. President, who sadly follows his nice words with deeds that more often than not belie them.
Well that’s the truth. But it’s not like the Muslim world was always friendly and respectful toward the west when it had the geo-political upper hand either. Behavior was changed due to naked power constraints. That doesn’t make what the west did admirable or okay.
But it’s stupid to talk about a “Muslim world” in any case, too much variation.
For the record though I am a fan of cultural imperialism when it’s something like no-FGM. But that has zero to do with Islam.
I’ll be linking to it tomorrow.
at Nobel awarded this prize their intent was to lean on Obama. They fear that he’s walking the same path as George Bush and want to push him in another direction.
May their tribe increase.
Then you are alone by yourself.
and the Nobel committee.
That’s a reasonable interpretation. From Obama’s words quoted above, one might conclude he interpreted it the same way.
There are far too many “leftists” flinging poo like zoo monkeys. They’re either astro-turfing trolls or so lacking in basic civility as to be useless to moving the causes they purport to be behind. Nothing moves public opinion like paranoid cynics screaming at them I’M RIGHT, YOU’RE WRONG!
Back OT, sounds about right Booman but the only ones that really know are the Nobel folks. It was a ballsy move for sure, and I think a far better choice than handing someone a gold watch for good deeds done.
I happen to think the NPP awarded to the ICBL (International Campaign to Ban Landmines) in 1997 was one of, if not the most, appropriate of the many peace awards. And hardly a “gold watch” for good deeds done. It recognized grass roots and selfless activism that resulted in the Ottawa Treaty, a treaty that the US has yet to sign (See ICBL on Wikipedia).
What?
Booman: “Having said that, Obama has to get this aircraft carrier turned around for good, or this good-will will not last.”
Exactly. But it should be really simple. Sort of like healthcare. About two-thirds of Americans want a public option in healthcare. Most Americans want us out of Iraq and Aghanistan. So why doesn’t it happen?
It’s not political will, folks. It’s power. And Obama doesn’t have the power to cross the military-industrial complex.
Well, yes and no.
It’s not so much a depersonified “complex” as it is a general political culture. There was an article in the NYT’s two days ago detailing the enormous logistical efforts currently going on to get all our equipment out of Iraq. We are leaving Iraq, and we have enough momentum now that we couldn’t stay even if we wanted to. It just takes time.
Afghanistan is a harder question, because we have no reason to believe that we can leave without the government collapsing. We have to decide how much we can control, what investments might help and be worth the cost and risk. I think it is pretty clear that the disastrous election there has thrown our whole policy into question and Obama has to deal with NATO, consider the Pakistan ramifications, and navigate the domestic politics, as well. It’s not as simple as just making a decision to remove our troops. Even if we decide to do that in the near future, there are a lot of considerations that go along with it.
Consider Vietnam. We probably should have pulled out of Vietnam no later than 1969. But look what happened in Cambodia when we did pull out. We have a responsibility to think a withdrawal through very carefully and prepare for it and do any mitigation that makes sense.
I haven’t come down hard on demanding an immediate withdrawal, and I haven’t supported a troop increase either. I have to see a policy that makes sense before I can really make a judgment. I suspect that the best policy is to slowly remove ourselves while trying to get the international community to help support stability through trade and financial support. That’s why the illegitimate elections hurt so much.
Win.
The Chair of the Nobel Committee rejects the criticism (translated from the Norwegian article in Aftenposten by ask):
Thorbjørn Jagland, leder av Nobelkomiteen, avviser at tildelingen av fredsprisen til Barack Obama var et feilgrep.
Thorbjørn Jagland, Chair of the Nobel Committee, denies that the award of the Peace Prize to Barack Obama was a mistake.
– Kan noen her peke på noen som har gjort mer det siste året, sa Jagland til pressefolkene som hadde møtt fram i forbindelse med at Jagland holdt foredrag ved Nobels Fredssenter på Vestbanen i Oslo, ifølge Dagbladet.no.
-Can anyone here point to someone else who has done more the last year, said Jagland to the press that came to the Nobel Peace Centre at Vestbanen [old railway station] in Oslo, according to dagbladet.no.
Det har ikke manglet på kritikk mot Nobelkomiteen etter at det fredag ble klart at USAs president Barack Obama får prisen, etter mindre enn ett år i Det ovale kontor.
There has been no lack of criticism of the Nobel Committee since it was announced on Friday that USA’s President Barack Obama would be the recipient, after less than one year in the Oval Office.
– Kritikken har vært helt som forventet, og mediene har en tendens til å trekke fram det som er negativt. Det er viktig å understreke at det også har vært svært mange positive tilbakemeldinger på tildelingen, sier Jagland til NTB.
The criticism has been totally as anticipated, and the media has a tendency to emphasize what is negative. It is important to stress that there have also been many instances of positive feed-back regarding the award, says Jagland to NTB.
Jagland trakk fram Alfred Nobel selv for å understreke at valget var riktig.
Jagland invoked Alfred Nobel himself to underline that the choice was correct.
– Det er vanskelig å peke på en prisvinner som er nærmere Alfred Nobels testament enn det Obama faktisk er, sa Jagland.
It is difficult to point to a prize winner that is closer to the testament of Alfred Nobel than what Obama actually is, said Jagland.
Han mener Nobelkomiteen har opptrådt akkurat slik de bør gjøre.
He opines that the Nobel Committee has acted exactly the way it should.
– Nobelkomiteen bør være slik Alfred Nobel har bestemt. Uavhengig, med stor integritet, og med evne til å fange det som skjer i verden. Det er også viktig at vi kan ta kontroversielle beslutninger når det er nødvendig, sier han.
– The Nobel Committee should be [act] just the way Alfred Nobel decided. Independent, with considerable integrity, and with an ability to capture what is going on in the world. It is also important that we are able to make controversial decisions when necessary, he says.
BTW, the Chair of the Nobel Committee is no political lightweight:
Thorbjørn Jagland elected Secretary General of the Council of Europe
Well this confirms my opinion, based on the stated reasons for the award (or rather the translation into English offered up by the MSM). Obama gets the Nobel for not being Bush. Maybe that is enough. Probably better than giving the Physics Prize for an engineering accomplishment which they also did.
I can only fervently hope that Obama is not Bush in blackface and with better diction. His infatuation with Republican ideas and zeal to escalate in Afghanistan still scare me.