As Al points out, Teddy Kennedy would have voted for this health care bill. I just watched Bernie Sanders and Ben Cardin explain how they secured money to forgive medical school tuition for doctors who go into primary care, which they believe will give primary care access to 20 million Americans who don’t have that access now. They’re voting for the bill. I’d vote for it, too. Hopefully, the bill will improve in Conference. But, considering that we had to win over all 60 members of the Democratic Caucus (including Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman) the bill we have is close to as good as could have gotten. I believe, in retrospect, Reid should have cut a deal with Snowe for her support of the base bill. With her vote secured, he wouldn’t have had to make so many concessions to Nelson and Lieberman, and we’d have a triggered public option going into Conference. I am confident that we could have had that and we lost it the moment the triggerless public option was put in the base bill. Others may think Lieberman would have thrown a tantrum anyway, but I disagree. He only acted because he realized Reid had to have his vote. Nevertheless, this bill is only slightly worse than the best that could have been expected.
I know people are pissed off about that, but this was the situation from the beginning. Really, after months of lobbying and activism, nothing much really changed from the beginning to the end.
Here’s a question I posed yesterday but no one responded. Maybe this is a more appropriate time to ask…
Maybe also find a way in these bills to open the exchanges to employers of all sizes and all individuals, regardless of employment status.
Those are excellent questions. I’ve become convinced that nobody really knows how the goddamn Senate works — not the senators, not lawyers, not the “news” media, not so-called parliamentarians, not anybody. It’s all just a silly game with rules made up by whoever is the most effective bully.
…and final passage of the conference report.
When Lieberman blows up the deal and votes against cloture on the bill anyways — because everyone’s looking at Nelson and not him — he will have saved us from the passage of a Very Bad Bill. And not inadvertently.
What will the correct netroots line be in that event? Gratitude?
If he did, the only response that would preserve a Dem majority would be
Anything less, any more schmoozing with the whores, will be disaster for the party and the country. The steps above probably should have been the Dem majority’s first actions in the new Congress.
Lieberman will not filibuster. He’s gotten the bill that AHIP can live with.
The progressives are losing their darn minds. They are seriously talking about primarying Obama in 2012. Of course most of them didn’t support him in the primary and they are having a field day on the blogs in MSM. This is the opportunity alot of them have been waiting for and they are almost giddy with madness.
Progressive motto: I will gladly promise you the Revolution Tuesday for a crippling defeat today.
Progressive motto: I will gladly promise you the Revolution Tuesday for a crippling defeat today.
Yeah, let’s dump Obama because on his watch a few million Americans got access to medical care instead of dying. Good luck with that. I always slowly forget why I don’t call myself a liberal until the Dems get some power.
I’m a proud liberal and a proud Democrat, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t think most liberals are unsophisticated and ill-informed. It doesn’t mean that I don’t think the Dem Party is the next thing to worthless.
I think I’ve just learned to cherish small victories and not get my expectations up.
If the party is “worthless”, you’d think the leadership had something to do with it.
Unless your idolatry of Obama obscured your vision.
Or you might think it reflects the upper limits a dumb and broken society can reach.
leadership has been fine. Other than a quibble about tactics in the base bill that cost us, they’ve pulled off a minor miracle. I think a lot of people are just more surprised than I am to learn about people like Conrad, Lincoln, Carper, and Landrieu. We had no chance of getting all their votes plus Nelson and Lieberman. No chance. But I knew that a long time ago. The only chance we had was the one I laid out fairly consistently. Either use reconciliation or settle for less and wait for the Conference to make your move. But those were long shots.
Hello – I read your comment about an “exodus” on DK, decided I may as well be the advance scout.
I think in terms of progress, and that is what we have. There IS no way other than incrementally.
Thank you for your calm and reason.
welcome to the Frog Pond. The water is fine, despite the weather outside.
Thank you so much. Perhaps Lib Dems do not ALL think of Obama as a traitor. I tend to lose perspective when I hang out at certain blogs. I want to be grounded again. I will share this place with others who believe in seeing from a more spacious vantage point.
I’ve been registered here a long time. But I plan to visit a lot more frequently.
Yup π I also had an account here, but it wasn’t until I remembered how rational Booman’s diaries on DK were that I decided to visit. Weather is bad here – connection cutting out. See you around!
You’ll be glad you came. BoomanTribune is the only liberal blog I frequent on a regular basis, because it’s leader is so rational, and the posters here, for the most part, are not pricks. π
Thanks. I remember Booman saying a while back that he had one rule: don’t be a prick. Sounds good to me π
I wonder what the odds are that it might still end up in budget reconciliation? I won’t trust the vote count or any of the Dem corporate toadies until the bill is on Obama’s desk and signed. I still think in retrospect the strategy was flawed. But it was reasonable at the time — if every bet paid off it wouldn’t be a bet.
You can’t possibly be talking about Obama.
It’s been brilliant- despite the best efforts of “progressives” to assist Republicans.
for the “surge” in Afghanistan yet? Our “brilliant” leader wants 30,000.
It’s incredible that we elected a guy who portrayed himself as a reforming moderate centrist and who advocated more troops in Afghanistan and then got someone who has utterly failed to overthrow the imperial system and bring about a new era in world politics based on Love!
I want my money back.
Now!
I know people who are in Iraq and Afghanistan, if that’s your question.
Why are you such a prick, Ed?
Booman has never exhibited idolatry towards Obama or anyone. He saw him, as did many of us, as the best of the lot running. I still agree he was the best we have.
I can be furious with the president in some areas and still support him in others.
And I feel the same as Booman, It’s a lousy bill in some respects. But it also protects some people who were truly in a heinous situation. I’ll take it, seeing how hard it is to get anything done. I want more, but I’ll take this as a start.
In some respects I agree with Chris Matthews about the bitching part.
I just don’t see a strategy to get a more liberal bill. I thought the PO was possible in the beginning, but when Finance stalled, I knew it was gone from there on out.
Name calling seems to come much easier to you than it does me.
You have to be careful when you lump together “progressives”. Some of those progressives didn’t vote for Obama, but some did.
And the old progressive yell “Primary him” must be taken with the same grains of salt as the old progressive talk about “taking to the streets with torches and pitchforks.”
When 2012 rolls around Obama is not likely to be primaried (unless things go very very badly with the economy). The progressives yelling “primary him” now cannot tell you how they will get the 20 million votes state-by-state to do that or the 69 million votes to win the general election.
Call it blowing off steam.
All true. It just gets really tiresome to keep being hit in the face with dumb and noisy not being just for wingnuts anymore.
Yes, it’s really blowing off steam. But also, tell me how much more you are going to enjoy being punched in the face(metaphorically of course)?
I agree. I consider myself a liberal but I will not even go on Daily Kos or watch Ed Shultz anymore. It’s a bit ridiculous.
Al hasn’t any idea how Teddy Kennedy would vote or how he would have dealt with what is going on in the Senate over health care. Nor do I. Nor does anyone else.
I would respectfully disagree. One, I have every confidence his wife Vicky knows since it was his life’s work and she has so much as said that in her WaPo post. I’m sure there are many things she might not know about how he would feel, but I doubt she has any misunderstanding of his philosophy about getting health care passed.
Two, if you read his book, which he just finished writing late last year or early this year, he makes it abundantly clear of what he considered health reform. And this bill meets his definition.
Here’s an Op-Ed for Sunday’s WaPo by Vicky Kennedy on this exact subject.
well, it’s a no-brainer. Kennedy was the master of the deal. He would be proud of this bill. That’s why he is remembered more as the best legislator in history than the most liberal in history. However, this bill still needs improvements. I’d vote for the Senate bill, but I’d be very disappointed if it wasn’t improved in Conference. I think it will be.
How will it be? Why aren’t you taking Rahmbo at his word? You damn well know they are going to make the House eat it as is. They don’t want anything to get in the way of securing Ben Nelson’s vote.
I knew you’d come around, dude. π
(Not to say you’ve changed your mind, but I think you’ve been reserving judgment.)
Moving on, the interesting question to me for next year is how fast and hard progressives in Congress can, should or will seek to make improvements.
I think an argument can be made that the restrictive abortion language will help galvanize the left even more. With a base bill passed, Obama may befree to be more unequivocal about supporting various things that didn’t make it into the bill this time, winning some points with The Left.
Politically, the improvements to the bill may actually be easier down the road. That doesn’t mean they necessarily get passed; but Obama and the party leadership can endorse them without looking like compromisers.
I also believe that kind of tact will help in the 2010 elections.
I agree Booman. I just finished reading Ted Kennedy’s “True Compass” and was really surprised to discover the similarities of the situation that Kennedy faced with the health care bill that unfortunately never came to pass during the Nixon administration. The same game playing in Congress is going on now (perhaps more out in the open due to the influence of the internet). I think that too many in the progressive left don’t understand how legislation always gets “watered down” in order to pass. This has been the case 99% of the time for decades. Perhaps the relatively easy presidential election win last year made them think that we were going to get everything we wanted in future legislation.
After reading his book, I feel so much better about being ok with the proposed legislation as it stands now.
There’s a tax on tanning beds. That makes me happy, and Sarah Palin cry.
Pass the bill. Long live white people!
What about treatment forthe skin problems that come from tanning? I can’t imagine doing that.
There is an exception for health reasons, so it only affects vanity tanning.
John Boehner is going to be pissed about this tax, that is for sure.
Surely they wouldn’t tax his cache of shoe polish. That would be terroristical.
There are legitimate medical uses for tanning beds as well. Psoriasis, various skin fungi, etc. Also helps with the wintertime “cabin fever” depression in northern frozen places where your skin gets no sun. As long as you don’t overdo it, it’s okay for some applications.
At least they haven’t gone and outlawed them because some people overused them.
Tanning beds are riskier than the sun.
And you can get vitamin D in a bottle. I do, since I live in one of those northerly places. Lot safer than the sun for people like me, even if I could get enough sun.
It has come to this.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433×73830
After only 11 months it has come to this nonsense.
Well, it’s such a badly constructed question is don’t know what the answers mean. Would you vote that “no one should run against him”? That would seem nonsensical and arrogant, especially since someone inevitably will. It isn’t an alternative to the first answer. I wouldn’t read anything into it, especially since he hired trolls have popped up all over the place this week.
On January 31st you called for President Obama to “Replace Tom Daschle with Howard Dean.” And today you are supporting a health care bill that Dr. Dean says will do more harm than good. What a difference eleven months make.
Nobody thinks the Senate bill will be the final version after conference committee. It won’t be good enough, but it will do much good for many people. We can argue til the cows come home about whether more could have been gotten, but in the end Dean is going to support the final bill. He, and we, have no real choice if we care about the people it will help. Smart lefties will celebrate this bill for what it does and start fighting for for much better legislation starting now.
From Howard Dean’s Washington Post editorial: “…as it stands, this bill would do more harm than good to the future of America.”
Dave, do you honestly think this bill is going to be significantly changed–for the better–in conference? If so you are a not-so-smart leftie.
A mandate is not the same as coverage and even the American people are smart enough to see that.
“Nevertheless, this bill is only slightly worse than the best that could have been expected.”
We have your word for that, of course.
And, while we’re at measuring how close this bill comes to the “best we could have expected”, why stop there? Why not lower our expectations far, far below “the best that we could have expected” and imagine how much better this bill would look if we had expected, instead, say, The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse? You know, next to them, this bill is like complete loving harmony among all mankind on Earth in our time.
We really did it, didn’t we? By golly, by gosh, fer sure we did! Bless us !!!!!!! We’re so good , we are!!!
Excuse me, I have to go and give myself a big, big hug.