I see they finally got around to hanging Chemical Ali. Ali Hassan al-Majid was the Iraqi official in charge of the gas attacks on the Kurds in 1987-88. These were a series of gruesome atrocities that only began to disturb the Washington Establishment in 1990 after Saddam gobbled up more of Kuwait than we had authorized. At the time of the attacks, particularly the main attack at Halabja, our official response was to try to blame Iran and soften the U.N.’s condemnatory language. Saddam was the enemy of our enemy until he rolled his tanks into Kuwait City and messed with Poppy Bush’s princely friends there. Ever since Saddam made that mistake, we’ve been paying the price for letting it happen in the first place. Before we needed a Zarqawi, we needed a Chemical Ali. Now, they’re both dead…no longer needed as part of our official propaganda war. The terrorists are dead, long live the terrorists.
I hope Kuwait is really enjoying that democracy we saved for them. Because everything that came after (WTC bombing, Embassy Bombings, USS Cole, 9/11, the war in Afghanistan, the second Persian Gulf War, the underwear bomber) were all direct consequences of April Glaspie getting stupid, immoral instructions. It’s not the only reason we face terrorism, but it’s the main one.
Off topic, but we’re going to lose Delaware:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/01/25/bidens-son-will-not-seek-delaware-senate-seat/
Yep, that’s pretty far afield in the topicality department.
April and Papa Bush came out of that just fine. Clinton didn’t pay any mind to it after he was in office. The Iraqi Kurds can celebrate today.
American-supplied American-made helicopters were used in the Halabja attack. Some members of Congress wanted to bar any further U.S. military equipment from going to Iraq. The White House quickly squashed that rather pathetic attempt to actually apply U.S. (not to mention international) law to the situation.
“Ever since Saddam made that mistake, we’ve been paying the price for letting it happen in the first place.“
How self-referential. It is the Iraqi people who have been forced by the American government to pay the price since the ’80’s for American government malfeasance, and for the U.S. letting its Arab puppets get out of control. Any price Americans have paid is a pittance by comparison, and it is the price of complacence, self-absorption and smug, arrogant self-satisfaction. Americans will never learn, and other people will continue to pay the price, and Americans who should know better will continue to self-referentially insist that it is they who are paying the price.
I don’t mean to be self-referential. I’m simply an American who is complaining about decisions made by my government that affected our country and our citizens. Haven’t I written about Iraq’s suffering for five years now?
And on cue, just a few minutes before the announcement came the latest bombing with 37 killed.
Embarassed to say I haven’t kept track and seeing the King of Spades meet his demise I wonder how many more of the pack are either MIA or awaiting their fate in cells.
Who is April Glaspie?
Wiki is your friend.
However it is stretching credibility to say that a diplomatic miscalculation is responsible for all the wars and terrorism and civil rights destruction that have followed since. It is perhaps truer to say that Saddam recognised in the USA a regime as amoral as himself.
I don’t think it is wrong to say that the Poppy Bush administration made a miscalculation, although it is fair to speculate that got what they wanted all along. Based on what I’ve seen, however, it seems that they did not object to Saddam punishing Kuwait and seizing some northern oil fields, but they did not sign off on wiping Kuwait off the map. Therefore, they didn’t dissuade Saddam from taking military action, and rather gave him a blinking green light. And from that event, the rest has followed.
It’s impossible to say how things might have unfolded in the absence of a full invasion of Kuwait, but the nuclear issue would have become a problem rather quickly.
Sorry, but what nuclear issue? I’m not making any connections here.
Assuming Saddam had not invaded Kuwait or any other country and had worked on competing a nuclear device, he would have run afoul of the US, Israel, and the whole anti-proliferation infrastructure in fairly short order. While estimates vary on when a working device could have ready for demonstration, 1994 is a conservative estimate. It is now 16 years later than that, so it would probably have become an issue long before today.
OK, thanks. Of course, that is all assuming that the hype about the nuclear program, its potential, timing, etc. was honest and accurate – not necessarily a good assumption really.
he would have run afoul of the US, Israel, and the whole anti-proliferation infrastructure in fairly short order.
But Israel never signed the treaty … or is it another nuclear one I am thinking of
Israel don’t need to steenkeen’ treaty.
link
The correct pronunciation is Usirak, or OUsirak – the first syllable kind of as in Usama, somewhere between O and OO. Using q is a completely incorrect transliteration as it represents the letter ق (qaf), which very few English speakers can learn to pronounce, and the word in question contains the letter ك (kaf), which is pronounced just like the English K.
More to the point, I do not consider the fact that Saddam said this or so-and-so said that to be evidence of anything real. Saddam made a lot of grandiose pronouncements in his life that had very little to do with reality.
PS Let us not forget to look at the hype about Saddam’s supposed nuclear weapons program in the context of the current hype about Iran’s alleged nuclear weapons program, which of course runs counter to the available evidence.
Oh, and as of tonight it seems there is a report being breathlessly reported that Al Qa’eda is going to have nuclear weapons by 2013. Hey, wait! I thought the world was coming to an end in 2012, so won’t that be kind of a year late and a dollar short?
Our decades of misdeed in Iraq are a reason for terrorism, Boo’M, but I wouldn’t call it “the main one.” If I had to rank ’em, I wouldn’t even put it #1. That would be our generations of eager enabling (financial, political, and military) of Israel’s war crimes. Far more Muslims care passionately about that than about Iraq, though our behavior with the people of Iraq (as opposed to Saddam) certainly is also a big deal.
yes, but Usama bin-Laden got kicked out of Saudi Arabia for his behavior in response to the Persian Gulf War and he linked up with guys from Egyptian Islamic Jihad that were mainly pissed off at the Mubarak government (in part, for honoring Sadat’s agreement with the US and Israel). So Israel is a part of the global recruitment chain and tangentially related to anti-Mubarak activism, they came way down the list of grievances for the people that actually put together the big terror attacks leading to and includlng 9/11.
True enough. But in terms both the global response to 9-11 and the motivations of post-9-11 recruits to the various ongoing branches of AQ, a lot of the hostility to the US comes fro issues are localized. Removing the troops in Saudi Arabia didn’t make up for the legions of new motivations the Bushies provided. There’s only a few overarching themes that link the various movements. Post-9-11, I’d rank the major ones as I/P, Iraq, and torture (and the American hypocrisy in claiming to be humanitarian and a champion of human rights), in that order.
So if I`ve got this right, they hang Ali for war crimes, or crimes against humanity, using US military equipment & chemical materials, but have a much bigger war criminal raising cash for aid to Haiti.
Truly disgusting.
Am I missing something in that equation??
well, we didn’t sell him the chemicals (aside from a precursor for mustard gas). So, that part is wrong. But Reagan did help him with his chem/bio weapons programs, more generally.
Well I`ll let Ronnie take the beating for having removed Iraq from the list, allowing US companies to do business supplying those precursors.
And I`ll admit that my statement was factually wrong, though barely.
Now, back to the war criminal that`s still alive, walking & talking (a free man).
I think it`s an affront to humanity & justice to have that peacock brained feather duster not being publicly investigated, (at the least) & to have to see him strut up to a podium to help those in a naturally devastated area. Who in hell picked that hated person, Babs?
He should be helping clean up the mess he created in Iraq.
On second thought, he should be cleaning up his jail cell. I think he`s done enough in Iraq.
And he DID use American-made, American-supplied equipment in his chemical attacks, most notably Halabja. And, as I said earlier, when some members of Congress found out and attempted to bring a bill to prevent further sales of military equipment to Iraq, the White House very quickly, and quietly squashed it completely.
Yes Hurria,
Reagan`s admin. thought the bill was premature.
I did admit that I was in factual error about supplying the chemicals, but providing the means to disperse them doesn`t really absolve anybody from direct complicity.
No, it does not.
my understanding is that we gave him helicopters for agricultural use and they were diverted to gas-bombing the Kurds. In our list of sins, this seems very minor.
“”Chemical Ali was the symbol of crimes and genocide in modern history. Executing him is a lesson to those who do the same …. those who kill their people and use banned weapons,” said Saadi Ahmed, a member in the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan party led by Iraq’s president, Jalal Talabani.”
Try substituting names & I think you may find that anybody who got duped into thinking that the US helicopters were going to be used to spray the carrots & olive trees, are the same ones who duped the world into the “Saddam is evil” crap(though he was), while one upping him with White Phosphorous (A banned weapon) & the unnecessary deaths of almost 5,000 Americans & dozens of thousands of wounded.(rendered as such by lies & deceit)
Let`s be at least a little accountable for these atrocities, before excusing the ignorance of those who knew what exactly was going to happen.
Well, to be honest, I have no clue about those helicopters. It was rather routine to have our Commerce and Agriculture Depts. out there selling stuff, and a lot of that stuff was dual-use. I see most of it as rather mundane, although some of it was intended to help Hussein crush Khomeini. Without details about the aircraft that was actually used, I can’t say what we might have reasonably expected.
Booman, I`ll have to let it go at that.
I am quite skeptical of ignorance on the part of supposed “people in charge” but at one point, the truth will prevail.
OT, did you ever reconcile the problem a user had accessing your site.
I tried to help on Facebook, & hopefully the user succeeded.
Would you please check on her situation, for all our benefit.
Thank you.
“Booman, I`ll have to let it go at that.“
Well I won’t (see below)!
Hurria,
I just figured that I would get no further.
You are much more well versed in the details.
I see more of the overall picture & do believe I have quite good sight.
I prefer to take my arguments to those who do lend an ear.
From the replies to my comments, but for yours, I feel an almost apologetic trend, though masked in plausible deniability maybe.
I prefer to keep my anger at bay till I have better field advantage to argue my points, without anger.
I have a dearth of information on many subjects & do retain many of my original thoughts about the subject matter, although they are quite disjointed in my archives.
I leave you the floor, as I feel you can hold it better.
I do not relinquish anything though.
Thank you for your obviously learned comments, now & in your past ones. I have benefitted educationally from them.
Thanks for your kind words. I might be less good at picking the time and place for my battles, or perhaps I always have hope that at least one person is listening in who may start to think of things differently as a result of what I have to say.
In the meantime, American exceptionalism is still alive an well in the world of American progressives.
Hurria,
“I always have hope that at least one person is listening in who may start to think of things differently as a result of what I have to say.”
Exactly, & for myself, I think if I present an argument I should do so without my own personal anger possibly hampering my ability to advance my argument.
And you do deserve my thanks.
Oui`s link & article plus your comment below seem to dispel the argument that the US did not supply chemicals, & that “Nobody could have foreseen” the “crop sprayers” could be used to murder innocent Kurds, or Iranians or Iraqis.
Come on, BooMan! Are you telling us that your government had no clue that Saddam was using the equipment the U.S. was providing it, and all the intelligence the U.S. military was passing its way not for peaceful purposes, but to launch chemical weapons attacks on the Iranians, and any Iraqis suspected of aiding them (which, by the way, was the “justification” for the attack on Halabja), so your government were shocked – SHOCKED! – to find out that dual use items were being used for military purposes?
Are you also going to tell us that Schwartzkopf’s claim that in 1991 Saddam tricked him in to permitting him to fly military helicopters and put tanks into the areas held by the insurgents day after day for eight days, and that Stormin’ Norman, military genius that he is, only figured it out and put a stop to it AFTER the insurgency had been well and truly squashed, and tens of thousands of Iraqis had been slaughtered like fish in a barrel?
well, I am actually focused on a narrow issue, which is whether the US was directly responsible for the atrocities against the Kurds in the 1987-88 period. The chemicals that were used were purchased from other nations, and the helicopters do not seem to have been military helicopters but choppers sold by the Agriculture Dept.
The overall policy going all the way back to at least Kissinger has been dreadful towards the Kurds, and I wasn’t even discussing the Shi’a uprising. But the US’s main culpability for the attacks on the Kurds in the late eighties seems to have been post facto.
The U.S. has sold out the Kurds so many times and they are so tattered and threadbare now that even the Good Will won’t take them. And I blame the two corrupt mafiosi, the grand opportunist Talibani who was perfectly happy to collude with Saddam when it was to his advantage, and the ignorant thug Mas`oud, who shames his father Mullah Mustafa with every breath he takes. Neither of them gives a damn about the Kurdish people, and only cares about his own power and wealth. Together they are responsible for more Kurdish death and misery than Saddam could dream of on a good day. Screw them both.
.
Thanks Oui!
Yes Oui, although I did tip my hat to you above I should have come back & thanked you.
I don`t know where you get all the links you provide in such a rapid manner, but over the years you certainly impressed me with the abundance of insight they`ve provided.
Thank you.
“ In our list of sins, this seems very minor.“
Let’s say that it really was all completely innocent, and your government really had no inkling that Saddam was using U.S.-supplied equipment and military intelligence in anything but the most innocent way. OK, then what about AFTER they figured it out and decided it was better to do absolutely nothing about it, except of course, to keep selling the stuff to him, and providing him with the military assistance?
.
See my diary – US Support for Saddam and Chemical Ali
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
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Viewed a documentary recently with interviews of locals in Yemen. Explosive mix which furthers the cause of Al Qaeda: poverty, unemployment and an authoritarian regime with distributed power by tribes. A simple equation that cannot be remedied by military force or a short term investment. Military support of the regime plays in the hand of Al Qaeda.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."