The president has endorsed the Gang of Six plan. I would be pretty pissed off if he actually signed anything like that into law. But, I don’t have to worry about that right now because Reid and Durbin immediately signaled that there is no time to include the proposal in any bill to raise the debt ceiling.
It’s unknowable whether the president really wants to sign a bill that does the following:
As described by its creators, the framework calls for $500 billion in immediate spending cuts as a downpayment on a broader debt-reduction effort that would be carried out largely by existing legislative committees…
…The overall goals of the plan mirror President Obama’s fiscal commission: Deep cuts in government agencies, significant reductions in Medicare and a framework for keeping Social Security solvent over the next 75 years. It also seeks to raise $1 trillion in taxes over the next decade by rewriting the tax code to lower tax rates for households in all income categories while eliminating various tax breaks and deductions.
I don’t mind rewriting the tax code, but the rest of it is making poor, middle class, and elderly people pay for Bush’s wars. And it would be political and economic malpractice to take $500 billion out of the current economy.
But, hey, nothing is carved in stone right now, so I’m not going to get upset about a proposal that will change dramatically and won’t pass until, maybe, the end of the year.
This is all academic at the moment. The real action is still on the McConnell plan.
OT, thought you’d like this, Booman.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/07/epiphany_1.php?ref=fpblg
The Dude abides…
His answer was like a marriage of Jeffrey ‘the Dude’ Lebowski and Donnie Rumsfeld.
Key graf courtesy of Senator Reid:
They got 4 Republican Senators to sign off on endorsing a plan that raises revenue, but has to start its life in the House where Boehner and Cantor have already committed to not passing any bills that raise revenue unless there’s a commensurate tax cut that eats up that revenue.
With only 12 days left until the drop-dead deadline.
And Obama immediately put his stamp of approval on the plan, which immediately means that the Republican controlled House cannot pass it as is.
I’m fairly certain this is the very definition of “kabuki politics”. I’m startled that 4 GOP Senators actually put their names on this.
Every hour it seems that a government shutdown becomes more and more likely.
I don’t know. I could totally see the President signing some megacompromise this fall/winter if he could be assured that people like Tom Coburn would actually vote for it.
Because I really don’t know what compromises the administration wouldn’t make in doing everything they can to ensure reelection. I mean, they pretty much have to be open to anything at this point, the consequences of Republican government are too dire. Obama is the last backstop before calamity. But with his massive, MASSIVE fundraising and enthusiasm advantage…I don’t know, they seem more scared about their chances sometimes than I would be if I were in their shoes.
I think the economy (specifically Europe) has really spooked them. And it should. There’s a real possibility of falling back into recession in 2012. Like 10-20% maybe.
Whatever. We just need to get through this fucking month first.
“…I don’t know, they seem more scared about their chances sometimes than I would be if I were in their shoes.”
Evidence?
Again with Obama endorsing cutting Social Security and Medicare. He should join the Republican Party where he belongs.
And you should come from underground.
I can’t get too upset with people who fall for a feint that was this brilliantly executed.
Feint? Methinks you doth protest too much.
Sure hope you are right on this
cutting SS or Medicaid at this time would be horrible for the party
it would be a fucking disaster for everyone, and not just the poor and the elderly.
the democrats would have their asses handed to them, and the republicans would be too glad to campaign (again) on “the democrats cut your medicare”.
Yep.
I don’t think the Republicans would actually be able to campaign on that, because these are all Republican ideas, that they offered as their “contribution” to the budget deal.
But what it would do is prevent the Democrats from running on “We saved your Medicare,” which they were having so much success with this Spring, when the Ryan Plan came out. They’d be giving away one of their best weapons.
you’re underestimating their capacity for lying and hypocrisy.
these are the same draft dodgers that attacked John Kerry’s war heroism. The party of David Diapers Vitter.
These people could be caught raping their own wheelchair-bound grandmothers, and somehow figure out a way to make it look like Granny’s to blame.
Of course! She’s a woman, right? So, she must have been “asking for it”. That’s the standard defense.
Obama did NOT endorse the plan. Read the stories more carefully. He said it is “consistent” with the balanced approach he wants, but the White House has been careful not to go so far as to endorse this particular plan.
And it is all theater, of course, since the House won’t touch any plan with more revenue.
And by appearing to endorse it, he makes it even more toxic to the House.
I don’t think Obama is stupid, but I don’t think he’s playing 11-dimensional chess either. So I honestly cannot figure out why he endorses things openly when he knows that the House Republicans will not be able to muster votes to pass things he endorses.
I don’t get it. He has to have them figured out by now, but I really don’t think he’s doing this to taunt them. I just can’t figure it out.
It makes perfect sense. Every time Obama shows a willingness to compromise, he exposes the intransigence of the GOP. And he does so at no real risk that anything he is agreeing to will actually be adopted.
See I don’t actually believe that he works like that. I don’t think he’s lying when he talks about the compromises he’s willing to make or where he’s willing to draw lines in the sand.
I take him at his word on these things – so far that seems to be a decent predictor of his actions. He’s one of the more honest Presidents we’ve had in my lifetime.
And that’s what’s making his strategies here so difficult for me to figure out. I think he may be “honesting them to death” – as in he’s presenting his positions openly and transparently, they’re knee-jerk rejecting him, and he’ll use that for his benefit. But if they accepted his compromises he’d be happy with that too.
That’s the only explanation that fits with what I’ve seen of the man, so maybe it’s what’s going on.
Lying is not the right word for what the president is doing.
Look, we have our own flip-side of the Tea Party on the progressive left. There are people who believe quite passionately that we should and can fix our structural deficits solely through higher taxes, some tax reform, and cuts in national defense. The truth is, that is not going to happen, now or ever. When confronted with that reality, many progressives advocate kicking the can down the road to some hypothetical future where we’ll be able to impose our will. That future has an infinitesimal chance of coming to be.
The president wants to solve our structural debt. He’s sincere about that. He recognizes that cuts in Medicare and Social Security will be the price of any deal to actually accomplish those reforms. And he’s honest about it instead of taking an absolutist negotiating position.
But that’s where the sincerity and the honesty end.
He’s offering the Republicans what appears to be a sweet deal. It’s the kind of deal the Republicans would have leapt to accept from Jimmy Carter, for example. But the president knows that the new Republican Party will not accept any deal that involves tax hikes. He offers something he’d have to give up in any real deal but he knows he won’t have to give it up because there will be no deal.
This is an example of making sure your opponents get blamed for kicking the can down the road. It’s also a direct attack on the Republicans’ strongest brand. And it has the added awesomeness of splitting the opposition directly in half and driving them into retreat.
I see what you’re saying, and if we were talking about Bill Clinton or almost any other center-left Democrat I’d agree that that was what he was doing.
But with Obama I just don’t see it. I don’t think he is making a false show of being reasonable because he knows the Republicans will reject it out of hand. I think he would honestly take the deal with the Republicans if they compromised and met him half way.
Lie is probably the wrong word, but I don’t think he’s playing a game here. He has put his cards on the table, drawn his line in the sand and says “you need to compromise because this is how far I’m willing to go”. I don’t think that, if tomorrow the Republicans suddenly said “okay – we’ll take your offer and meet you halfway” he’d suddenly rescind the offer because it was all just a trick – it’s a legit offer and at some level he wants them to take it because he thinks it’s honestly what’s best for the country.
I’m willing to be wrong on this – hell part of me WANTS to be wrong about this and for Obama to be the violin player who is playing the Republicans beautifully. I just don’t see it – I think he’s honest about what he wants and wishes the Republicans would actually be reasonable and meet him half way. The way he professes that he thinks government is supposed to work.
These are pretty much the conclusions I’ve come to.
I don’t think you understood me.
Obama wants to make a deal for a whole variety of reasons. The most important one is that he wants some stimulus in the economy and certainly no cuts in next year’s budget. With no deal, he’s going to get a headache in the appropriations process in an election year, and anti-stimulative cuts. With a deal, he can backload all the cuts and even negotiate some tax breaks to put more money in working people’s pockets.
He wants a deal, but he knows with certainty that he can’t get one. He’s not an idiot.
If a deal were a real possibility, he would not be falling all over himself to give away the store. This is not a negotiation.
Put it this way. He wants a deal he can’t have, so he’s not pitching for that deal. He’s pitching for winning the blame game.
Again, he’s not an idiot.
I believe you’re right on the money.
nonynony,
What is the one demand in a budget deal that the Republicans will absolutely never agree to?
A large tax hike.
What is the one demand that Barack Obama, in all of his bending-over-backwards efforts to reach a deal, has absolutely refused to budge on?
A large tax hike.
This is not the behavior of someone actually aiming for a deal with the Republicans.
Hmmm, maybe that’s why he’s where he is and you are where you are.
I think he knows this plan is a Republican dream
to get a democratic President to cut SS, medicare ect. and lower taxes on the rich.
He knows the house will kill it
The establishment republican party will then start destroying the Tea Party reps. in the house because they are so insane
Hopefully a third party arises
Well, I for one am pissed off that Obama just friggin’ loves this plan. I still wonder who he thinks is going to vote for him except for his Obama can do no wrong folks? The seniors? nah, the LGBT folks, nah, the base, nope, the indies-perhaps, the south-doubtful.
I cannot BELIEVE a democratic president is screwing with SS and Medicare without tax hikes for the rich.
God DAMN.
He doesn’t have to do this that is whats freaking me out. I will vote for him next fall. I don’t have any other real options.
Now everyone can endorse a financial suicide plan of their very own! Sure it won’t pass but even the president has to prove himself to a self hating electorate.
I really wish the President would add that if the House wishes, they can pass a clean raise of the debt ceiling, and we can continue our grand deal making without imminent catastrophe hanging over our heads. I doubt the Republicans would take him up on that obviously, but I do think the public should be reminded periodically of who the hostage takers actually are.
I wish that the President would say that he doesn’t want a clean bill that will raise the debt limit until 2012 and that he really wants to have a grand bargain, but if they force his hand he’d be willing to accept it provided they couple it with something that Republicans would hate – like dropping the Bush tax cuts or something.
That way the Republicans can kick and scream and hand him a clean bill that doesn’t include what he asked for, he can “regretfully” sign it despite it only being a half measure and all this kabuki can end.
The kabuki will continue until the House Republicans get a legit face-saving measure handed to them. That’s what McConnell’s “deal” is supposed to be – a face-saving measure for the Republicans who have backed themselves into a corner.
Jeebus Booman! Obama didn’t endorse anything. Did you watch the video of what he said? His team haven’t even read the details yet. geesh.
Fine.
He endorsed the idea and said it should form the basis for a grand deal.
It’s unknowable whether the president really wants to sign a bill that does the following…
How many times does he have to tell you that he really wants to sign that bill before you take him at his word.
This is not Kabuki theater. Obama is serious. And if he doesn’t start getting pushback from liberals, that bill is exactly what you’re going to get.
Do you make a point of taking politicians at their word? When they’re in the midst of a negotiation whose outcome will depend on how the public and media perceive the process?
Do you make a point of taking politicians at their word?
I make a point of paying attention to how politicians advance their own agenda.
So when Obama tells us that he’s going to let the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of 2012, I’m skeptical. It’s in his interest to say it. It’s what his base wants to hear. And at the very least, it gives him a negotiating point with the Republicans. But it’s also what he said up until December 2010, when he promptly changed his mind.
But I fail to see how Obama is somehow advancing the progressive cause here.
He could be demanding that the Republicans allow a clean vote on the debt limit increase and that they stop holding the country hostage. He could be repeatedly pointing out that neither Social Security nor Medicare are responsible for the current debt and shouldn’t be cut to pay for it. He could be making the argument that we should be talking about jobs not the deficit right now. He could be demanding that the Republicans sacrifice as much in tax increases as he does in spending cuts. And he could be playing the great defender of Social Security and Medicare, thus putting a spotlight on the Republican demands to attack those programs.
All of those would be politically smart, appeal to his base, and throw the Republicans on the Third Rail of American politics.
But he isn’t doing any of that. He’s offering cuts to these programs. He’s chastising liberals for being unwilling to cut them. Now we’re at the point where we get to chose whether to cut SS, Medicare and Medicaid a little or a lot, in exchange for something that should be a routine vote in Congress. And everything he does is making sure that we stay there.
He’s pushing Simpson-Bowles. He’s praising the Gang of Six. He’s demanding the “Grand Bargain” including cuts to these programs.
How is it not obvious that this is his agenda.
And here’s even more evidence that he really wants to push this “Grand Bargain” deficit reduction agenda.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/obama-moves-to-shore-up-democratic-support-for-broad-
debt-plan/2011/07/20/gIQAer94PI_story.html