As I said last night, I don’t feel qualified to judge who won the CNN/Tea Party debate. I am not crazy. Dana Milbank, however, is convinced that Rick Perry was the loser. Maybe. But I thought he did just fine. I thought he made Romney look like a wimp. And the rest of the field appeared to be little different from a swarm of gnats. Even Bachmann’s attacks were less than devastating. Her premise was that Governor Perry forced girls to be immunized against HPV. But, as Perry made clear, there was a parental waiver so no one was forced to take the vaccine. She was outraged about something that isn’t even true. Yet, that’s kind of why I can’t judge these debates. The whole show is 95% outrage about stuff that isn’t true. If the audience is buying into what they’re saying about Social Security or taxes or balancing the budget or climate change or why health care is expensive, then it’s really not a competition to show you understand the issues and have credible plans to address them. It’s more about conveying some kind of emotional message and connecting with the voters on a visceral level.
That’s why it matters that Romney, like Pawlenty, exudes wimpishness. It matters that Huntsman lacks stature. And it matters that Perry projects confidence and raw strength. What they’re saying is probably irrelevant. Let’s take an extreme example. Here’s Ron Paul from last night answering a question about whether to increase or decrease defense spending.
PAUL: As long as this country follows that idea, we’re going to be under a lot of danger. This whole idea that the whole Muslim world is responsible for this, and they’re attacking us because we’re free and prosperous, that is just not true.
Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda have been explicit — they have been explicit, and they wrote and said that we attacked America because you had bases on our holy land in Saudi Arabia, you do not give Palestinians fair treatment, and you have been bombing —
(BOOING)
PAUL: I didn’t say that. I’m trying to get you to understand what the motive was behind the bombing, at the same time we had been bombing and killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis for 10 years.
Would you be annoyed? If you’re not annoyed, then there’s some problem.
I don’t know how you can get more taboo than saying essentially that the 9/11 hijackers would have something wrong with them if they hadn’t been annoyed. In a slightly altered form, I’ve made the same point that Ron Paul was trying to make, but I never said that we killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in the 1990’s by bombing them. Some have argued that the embargo of Iraq caused much higher infant mortality, undermined water quality, and denied Iraqi doctors vital medical supplies. As a result, many estimates blame the sanctions for more than 100,000 excess deaths in Iraq. It should be remembered, however, that Saddam Hussein set records for misallocating funds. He was building palaces when he should have been helping young mothers keep their children alive. Also, no one forced Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait. Hussein created excess deaths for a living. But I digress. My point is that Ron Paul said in a Republican debate that 9/11 happened because we spent the 1990’s bombing Iraq until more than 100,000 Iraqis were dead. He did get booed for saying it, but will it actually hurt him in the polls?
I doubt it.
Because it wasn’t even the craziest thing that he said last night and no one seems to be listening to the details anyway. Paul also said that we should leave the uninsured to die. Newt Gingrich said we can balance the budget without touching entitlements by just “modernizing” the government. Bachmann thought it was an outrage to prevent cervical cancer and didn’t seem to realize that the Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution. Santorum tried to appeal to Latino voters by calling them the ‘Illegal Vote.” Romney tried to appeal to the Latino vote by saying they all came here looking for a hand-out. Herman Cain said he would create a commission of people who had been abused by the Environmental Protection Agency in order to assure the destruction of the Environmental Protection Agency. And I’m just scratching the surface here.
This isn’t about reason or logic. That might play in a Democratic debate or in a general election debate, but it’s meaningless in a debate among Republicans. In my book, Perry was the winner because he didn’t cry. Romney is too wimpy, geeky, and bland. All the other candidates are midgets.
But, as I’ve said, I’m not a good judge.
Media hasn’t been peeling back the now infamous response of let him die in response to Blitzer’s question about how to respond to a 30 year old man who chooses not to have insurance and finds himself in the hospital.
The important answer would have addressed who’s going to pay the bills that the guy incurs, whether he dies and his estate can’t pay or whether he finds himself incapable after a serious hospital stay.
But when one leads with the gut rather than the head and feeds the gut transfats the brain is just too clogged to engage. That question and the answer that our HealthCare Bill provided get to the heart of the matter and clarify the need for the individual mandate.
Who wants a vindictive teabagger to have their thumb on the nuclear option?
I agree; this is about tone and body language. The teabaggers have the alpha male they always wanted in the race now, and I expect that will be the end of it.
Still, more debates please. You can never have too much material for attack ads.
but apparently Blitzer asked Perry if he would, as president, vote to override the ACA.
Note to the uninitiated: This is a trick question. The President does not vote on stuff. He signs or vetoes.
Perry said he would vote to override. Blitzer asked him twice. Perry still did not get the hint.
The guy either does not listen to the actual question, or is simply unclear about the job.
James Fallows’s column “People are close to revolt”: Views from afar is the first piece in a while from the Village that actually goes outside the Village for content. The responses are limited by the demographics of The Atlantic, but they relate experiences of folks outside that demographic.
If nothing else, the piece outlines how the frustration that people are feeling can be easily transformed into the nonsense that emanated from the CNN Tea Party Express debates. (I believe that with CNN’s hiring of key rightwing nuts, CNN and Tea Party Express might be the same thing now–at least in the US edition).
The US really did bomb Iraq through the 90s, after the Gulf War; there wasn’t just an embargo. You are aware of this, I hope?
Yes, I am aware that there was some bombing, particularly in 1998 when Clinton bombed the crap out of Iraq for four days. However, nowhere near 100,000 people were killed in those attacks.
It is, however, a point of fact that the UNICEF estimate of the number of excess Iraqis deaths attributable to US-led – mostly children, and mostly from malnutrition and preventable disease – was well over 500,000, not 100,000. Madeleine Albright, then US Secretary of State, incurred a lot of ire on 60 minutes, when she was asked about this figure and famously replied that the price was “worth it.”
Paul was wrong about the means of death, but he was right about the deaths, and right that it was one of the things Al Qaeda (among many others) was pissed about.
yeah, he kinda sorta had a point until he completely botched it.
As for the 500,000 number, I still see it as deeply misleading. How do you apportion blame to Hussein? It’s not as simple as if the sanctions existed of if they didn’t. A leader who cared about his people would have either stepped down to end the sanctions or done everything in his power to satisfy the UN and the US to life them. Also, he would have spent his resources on the people who were dying as a result of the sanctions instead of on palace building and other opulence.
Sanctions are supposed to have a practical purpose, not just some moral condemnation.
Did the sanctions regime of the 90s have any effect on weakening Hussein’s control over that country? No? Then why keep going with them?
Because policymakers couldn’t come up with anything else short of removal by force. That’s really it.
Sanctions can definitely backfire. They worked in South Africa, but they’ve did not work in Iraq. Yet, there must be some way short of war for the UN to show its displeasure. The deaths in Iraq were ultimately Hussein’s responsibility. He was the leader and he was responsible for getting the sanctions imposed in the first place, and he gave the UN very little to work with in terms of lifting the sanctions. The UN did adjust the sanctions once it became clear how badly they were hurting the Iraqi people, but they were in kind of a bind. I believe that once Colin Powell failed to win Smart Sanctions in 2001, war with Iraq was inevitable. Might have even happened in a Gore/Lieberman administration because we were really getting jammed up and the terror threat was growing from it, too.
I don’t think it would have happened under Gore/Lieberman. The entire premise for going to war was over WMD. No WMD, no rationale for war. Yes Droopy is very dangerous, but I don’t think it would have happened. Some disagree, as it was “inevitable” and “Gore was one of the most pro-war Dems in the Senate,” but I just can’t agree. I’ve read a lot from both sides and I don’t think he would have — he was fairly early out of the gates opposing the war from the start (granted, he wasn’t in office).
But Clinton doesn’t get off the hook from the sanctions. He shares responsibility for that.
It’s impossible to say. The sanctions were falling apart, the whole Oil for Food thing was mired in corruption, Hussein was going to give all the oil to the Russians, French, and Chinese once the sanctions were lifted, making it even more unlikely our elites would willingly lift them. We weren’t about to leave Hussein in power and let him have all his oil revenues and the freedom to buy weapons (massively destructive or not).
Chances are good that Gore would have wandered down a similar but much differently flavored path.
I think your last sentence is fair. But he would have had competent people advising him at the very least, and they may have done things differently under different leadership (Powell, for instance).
I still think the reason we went to war was because of Bush’s personal vendetta with Hussein, though. I just read a post from Hurria asking me why I thought we went (as I disagreed with the oil rationale, as did she), and I think what most wins out was petty vindictive revenge and finishing what Daddy started. Anything else (oil, another puppet) was pure gravy.
Paul also said that we should leave the uninsured to die.
He said that? Really?
I don’t see that on the video or in the transcript. Maybe they’re both wrong though, eh?
That’s what freedom is about.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/12/tea-party-debate-health-care_n_959354.html
(Yes, I know he actually said that ‘the churches’ should take care of it.)
So Paul never did say that?
I’m sure Booman will correct this error any minute now.
Did you watch the video? BooMan is clearly correct. Unless the ‘we’ you’re talking about when you say, we should leave the uninsured to die means ‘the churches.’
But Ron Paul’s on board with the government letting them die. That’s freedom.
I get it. 1 + 1= 65.
BLITZER: “Are you saying society should just let him die?”
AUDIENCE: (Applause)
PAUL: “No. I practiced medicine before we had Medicaid, in the early 1960s, when I got out of medical school. I practiced at Santa Rosa Hospital in San Antonio, and the churches took care of them. We never turned anybody away from the hospitals.”
Yeah, people never starved or died from lack of medical care before Medicaid and Medicare. No, their neighbors were right there for them every time.
FDR and LBJ put these programs together because they like taxes.
Booman: Paul also said that we should leave the uninsured to die.
He never said that.
Case Closed.
Nice try though, Opolgists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ1lc6KASWg
He’s saying we shouldn’t just let them die, the unicorns should heal them. To you, this means he doesn’t think we should just let them die.
I presume you also believe that politicians are pro-job when they say, ‘If we outlaw unions and do away with all taxes on job-creators, that will create jobs.” See? They want to create jobs! I can even bold it.
where did he say that the he as president would have the responsibility to make sure people don’t die for lack of insurance?
He didn’t say that.
If some charity takes care of some cases out of the goodness of their hearts, that doesn’t mean anything. People die in this country every damn day because they don’t have health insurance, and the churches and families can’t do a damn thing about it.
But if we take away doctor’s licenses, allow people to see alternative medicine doctors, and allow anyone who wants to practice medicine do it, the cost of health care will go down.
Sure, it’ll take decades of pain to squeeze the fat out of the system, but that’s “what freedom is about.”
Palin attacks Perry on Fox http://nation.foxnews.com/undefined/2011/09/12/palin-attacks-perry
Bachmann’s her momma grizzly (unless Palin decides to run and quit).
It’s funny that all these corporation-friendly candidates did not mention the fact that the US is about to be blindsided by events in Europe. Namely a Greek default is going to put pressure on all banks that are counterparties to credit default swaps on European nations’ debt default.
And the new statistics are out about median household income in 2010. Down from $60K before the recession to $49,445 in 2010. Again I ask that the people demand that Congress set its salaries not to exceed the median family income. It’s called incentivizing them to do the right thing.
You read Dana Milbank…so we don’t have to?
He’s awful and getting worse.
Let’s see… When I put on my Tri-corner hat with Tea bags dangling from it, Booman’s analysis of how the intended audience thinks all makes sense.
Rick Perry won this thing. The only time he screwed up was when he briefly showed some compassion toward the Brown People from Mexico. That made him look momentarily less than fully masculine.
Everyone else were just a bunch of wimps.
I’d better take this ridiculous hat off. There. Now what was I talking about?
Regarding the attacks against Perry from Bachmann and Santorum about vaccinating for HPV, suggesting he was bought off by Merck for $5000… to that audience, his response was brilliant. He basically said “I may be a whore, sure. We all have our price, right? But I’m not so CHEAP a whore as to be bought for a mere $5k (like y’all obviously must be.)”
The audience (who are all whores themselves) must have thought “Wow. Not only is he the manly man that we’re looking to associate ourselves with but he’s also a classy whore. What more could we want?”
“It’s more about conveying some kind of emotional message and connecting with the voters on a visceral level.”
This has been the essence of politics since humans first started using it. Parts of the left just doesn’t think that way, they rely a lot more on data. And that’s why we lose.