What were the best and worst moments of the debate, in your opinion?
About The Author
BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
“Please proceed, Governor” and the look on Obama’s face as he raised his glass to take a sip of water. Or was that Romney’s milkshake?
I’ll never forget that and what followed.
And how it concluded, – when Mitt went forward nevertheless about it, Obama didn’t engage his lies and blather but “approached the bench” and said “Candy, I’d be glad to discuss foreign policy…”
I took that as Obama not quite understanding that Romney was trying (very stupidly) to set him up for a “gotcha.”
Yes, the next day I called it an “act of terror.” Yes, as you say, I did. Yes indeed, I agree with what you keep repeating: I did call it that. Please proceed, Governor; we’ve agreed, and made clear, that I called it an “act of terror” the next day, so now get on with your point.
Only immediately after that did it become entirely clear that Romney was actually trying to litigate the factual point, at which point Crowley impaled him with simple reality.
It was about Obama turning the balance of power in the exchange. Romney was trying to pin him down to answer Romney’s question, which would shift the power to Romney, who was trying to force Obama into a trap. Obama dealt with it by recasting the exchange in his own terms, laying the trap for Romney. I think Booman explained it well, that what viewers were reacting to in the first debate and what Obama handled successfully last night was the alpha male contest which had the potential of leading Obama into an angry black man trap. It’s amazing imo how Obama did it last night. He really handled the situation as a courtroom drama which kept the anger out of it – that would be my reading. And Candy C’s judicial demeanor and the fact there was an audience of questioners played well into that genre
So satisfying to see it in writing too.
This was some pretty serious smackdown:
[h/t to the magnificent Heather, yet again, and C&L]
…the last point I want to make is this — there are some things where Governor Romney is different from George Bush. George Bush didn’t propose turning Medicare into a voucher, George Bush embraced comprehensive immigration reform, he didn’t call for self-deportation, George Bush never suggested that we eliminate funding for Planned Parenthood, so there are differences between Governor Romney and George Bush, but they’re not on economic policy. In some ways he has gone to a more extreme place when it comes to social policy, and I think that’s a mistake. That’s not how we’re going to move our economy forward.
“Proceed Governor”
This was masterful. It’s the language of a presiding judge. Romney was trying to grill Obama as if he were a defendant on trial. Only problem is, Obama is a Harvard Law School graduate, and Mitt Romney is not. Obama’s jijitsu allowed him to go from defendant who slips out of Romney’s line of questioning to the judge presiding in the courtroom with Candy Crowley reduced to something like a paralegal who rushes over with the exact statements on the Bhenghazi Affair. At that point, President Obama was in control of a court of law was he not? Now, that’s real Mr. Spock 13th Dimensional Chess for you.
Actually Romney is a Harvard Law grad. (He did a joint MBA/JD program at Harvard.)
Which only makes your point (and Obama’s mad 13th dimensional chess skillz) all the more impressive.
Did Romney complete that program though? I was under the impression that he was recruited at Bain as a fallback to his academic shortcoming in attaining the dual masters.
From his wiki page:
He graduated in 1975 cum laude from the law school, in the top third of that class, and was named a Baker Scholar for graduating in the top five percent of his business school class.
Yes, I think Obama handled it like a courtroom drama, sometimes casting Candy C in the judge role – at the end of the exchange notice how he used the space, approached Candy C and said (as if to the judge) I’d be happy to talk more about foreign policy. But I agree with you on “proceed governor” there he’s taking the judge role. See my response to Rieux above, that’s how Obama turned the tables on the power angle in the exchange. it was beautiful to behold
Best:
Worst:
1. I got nothin’
addendum:
5. Ooh yeah like the above commenter said. Obama coming back to slam Romney on his other differences from Bush. Some people like Andrew Sullivan thought Obama dropped the ball on that one but I liked it. Comparing Romney/Iran and Bush/Iraq would’ve been awesome though.
On second thought though, it was the smart play not bring up Iran I guess. Might not play well the all important “independent” voter.
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/16/whats_the_foreign_policy_of_independent_voters
The audience didn’t ask about Iran.
Next week is foreign policy. Plenty of opportunity to do the Bush/Cheney/Romney Iran comparisons then. Especially since Romney has adopted the same team of insane Neocon foreign policy advisers that Bush/Cheney had.
The question Biden asked Ryan: “Do you want another war?” needs to be revisited with Romney since he’s asking for such steep increases in military funding. Why?
I don’t think Obama’s answer on Bush/Romney was bad enough to be called “dropping the ball,” but I do think he could have been stronger. Bush and Romney are alike in a whole bunch of terrible ways; Obama missed several of them, and he didn’t highlight the others as definitively as he could have. He made up for it somewhat with his cute and counterintuitive “Hey, Romney’s worse than Bush on social policy!” closing, but I think he still left worthwhile points on the table.
Overall I’d call it a missed opportunity, not a serious flub or a “worst moment.”
Yea, I thought it was the perfect time to note that it’s always about tax cuts. They didn’t work last time and squandered the surplus. I was saying to my wife “here comes the hammer” but it never did. Obama let him off easy.
The Have you checked your pension sequence.
Can you say that a little louder, Candy?
My jaw dropped when I heard that. Probably the most cheerful and dignified gloating I’d ever heard. The only thing that had to be missing was him doing the Snoopy Dance on live TV after that.
But that would be undignified.
In retrospect, the whole exchange was beautiful (including, “Please proceed, Governor”), but in real time, that brought me straight to attention.
Worst moment? The gas prices question, knowing that POTUS couldn’t simply answer, “That’s not the government’s job, stupid.”
Yes, it seems that Candy kinda piled on that gas prices question. Seems the POTUS answered it the only way possible with his “$1.88 = crap economy, stupid” answer.
Then he went on offense to suggest that RMoney’s policies would likely lead back to those bad years.
Impressive that he was able to come up with that.
I thought that was an ingenious response. It dodges the real issue at the core of the question (for the reason mentioned above–a presidential candidate can’t say “Dammit, that’s out of the U.S. government’s control,” even though it is), but it’s a substantively relevant pivot to a more fruitful subject.
See my recent post – Gov. Romney and His Lie on Pay Equity for Women .
The worst? None of it
The best? All of it, Katy.
Obama finally brought a bazooka to a gunfight. Romney was standing there with a peashooter. Done.
I think President Obama’s genuine anger and contempt as he called out Romney for politicizing the deaths in Libya was maybe the most presidential moment. It was his way of pointing out that the job is tough, it contains a lot of sorrowful moments, and it also requires EARNING the respect of the people you depend upon and who depend upon you. The contrast between the commander-in-chief and the asshole CEO was at its starkest there.
Worst moment?
Well, I’d love to give Obama a do-over on answering the man’s question about who turned down a request for tighter security at the Libyan consulate. He pivoted away from the question without even pretending to answer.
I started reading some of the papers from Issa’s hearing on the matter last night, and I think Obama could have swatted down this charge easily.
Nevertheless, Obama played it out well, baiting Romney into the worst gaffe of the night.
yes, for example the man said the embassy and it was the consulate, funding for dept of state security cut by congress, etc
Let’s hear it again about just how bad Ms. Crowley’s moderator skills are. We had a whole thread dedicated to that proposition before the debate.
She was good. I do wish she would have really smacked Romney down a few times with “No governor, you may NOT respond to that. Your time is up so go SIT DOWN and SHUT UP you sniveling little…”
But if she did something like that, she’d never live it down. I’ll bet she was dreaming of one of those remote control shock collars for dogs though.
There are few more enjoyable moments than watching Romney lose it and try not to let it show.
He starts to talk fast. Too fast for him to think, apparently, because his speech becomes halting, as he pauses between each quickly spat out syllable, building his sentence one oh-so-very-carefully chosen word at time. He stutters and repeats, in a monotone completely devoid of inflection, the kind that humans like to use in order to add special meaning to an expression of thoughts in which they actually believe.
And no surprise, the sentences that come out bob and weave and flop around like a handful of nightcrawlers trying desperately to escape being threaded onto the hook.
Best or worse for whom?
Best Romney moment–getting to hammer bad economy line repeatedly without contradiction.
Worst – Candy Crowley calling out his lie.
Best Obama moment – “Please proceed, Governor.”
Worst – Stammering in answering the first question about jobs. Could have been a teaching moment about where jobs come from. (Yes, I understand that Obama takes right-of-center positions because it widens his base and leaves the GOP with the crazies.)
Karl Marx wept moment: Obama’s closing statement. Golly gee whiz, Obama’s a failure as a socialist 😉 Only the true believers (thanks Eric Hoffer for that phrase) will buy the KMS lie and they never have been undecided about the black candidate and President.
I liked the look on Obama’s face when Romney asked about his pension. His answer “It’s not as big as yours.” perfectly expressed his reaction that “Oh my, this 12-year-old boy wants to bring out a ruler and measure.” Another $10,000 bet moment for the money wanker.
I wish he had said, “Why? Did you steal it?”
“Proceed, Governor.”
best moment: the Libya bitchslap
I don’t know what the favorite moment was, but from the reviews I’m willing to bet on the most remembered: Binders full of women
The Benghazi “Please Proceed, Governor” was the absolutely the best theatre of the evening. Bitch slap adequately describes both what happened, what the antagonists were feeling, and what the audience got out of it.
But the bumber sticker moment was “Binders full of women”. Yeah. In Boston. You gotta have underlings go find smart educated women because there is a huge dearth of them (And its coming out that he didn’t even do THAT). Thats the takeaway from last nite.
So far, Obama/Biden is 3 for 3: Big Bird, “FAAAAAAAHK YOU”, Binders of Women. I can’t wait for number 3.
My favorite part? When the grades started coming in immediately after the debate. It’s one thing for Obama to actually perform well, it’s another to have the world acknowledge it.
My worst part is realizing that lying is a very effective means to getting elected and that as Romney kept upchucking lie after lie that there were plenty of people who would believe it no matter.
Well the frosting on last night’s cake is going to be the clips of the day after when Springsteen & Clinton warm the hearts of Ohioans. Just wondering if Clinton will take a break and play sax with the Boss.
Best: The President telling the Libya back story and referring to the Ambassador and staff as “one of our own” as “representing Me” – then backhanding Romney and calling his characterization offensive. It was his most Presidential moment imnsho, demonstrating the burden that the Commander in Chief shoulders.
Worst: The first answer to the college student’s employment predicament. Maybe I’ve seen too many clips of stump speeches but it didn’t seem like the President answered it directly. He talked about community college open enrollment and pairing employers with workers, all great things, but the question came from a soon-to-be university grad. If it were me, I would’ve asked what his major is and then riff on that.
I thought of two more Romney worsts.
First off when he thanked Obama for showing up. There was condescension in the way he said it that came of as playing to Romney’s racist birther base.
The other was “if we are going to have women in the workforce…”.
yes, discussed on the other thread. already having consequences