I’m a little confused about the kerfuffle over Plan B emergency contraception. A judge ruled that it should be available to all women, regardless of age. The FDA then approved it for girls as young as 15. Then the Justice Department announced that it is appealing the judge’s ruling and said that the administration’s new FDA guidelines should satisfy all the plaintiffs in the case. I think I have all that right.
So, basically, the administration is only arguing about girls who are old enough to get pregnant but younger than fifteen. I guess this is consistent with what Obama said back in 2011 when he was defending Health Secretary Kathleen Sebelius’s decision to overrule the FDA and require a prescription for girls younger than seventeen.
“The reason Kathleen made this decision is that she could not be confident that a 10-year-old or an 11-year-old going to a drugstore should be able — alongside bubble gum or batteries — be able to buy a medication that potentially, if not used properly, could have an adverse effect.”
Obama also noted, “I will say this, as the father of two daughters. I think it is important for us to make sure that we apply some common sense to various rules when it comes to over-the-counter medicine… I think most parents would probably feel the same way.”
At the time, Malia was 13 and Sasha was 10. They are now 14 and 11, but soon to be 15 and 12. Maybe it’s just a personal thing for the president who happens to have daughters of the precise age in question. I don’t know. But it doesn’t seem like sensible policy. I think the chances are pretty high that an eleven year old who has just had sex and is worried that she might get pregnant might have a legitimate reason not to want to rely on her parents to help her out. In those circumstances, the father or an uncle or some other family member might be involved. I’d just be happy that she had the wherewithal to go to the pharmacy and take some action.
This distinction probably would only result in a few unwanted pregnancies, but the girls impacted by it would be precisely the ones who couldn’t talk to their parents for some reason.
Also and related, I know kids these days are having sex at a younger age than when I was a teenager, but in my experience it was unheard of for eleven year olds to have consenting sex, twelve years olds were very rare, and fifteen years old were hopping in the sack all the time. Not that it should matter for policy, but I just think it’s less likely for girls under fifteen to have consensual intercourse, and therefore cutting them off from emergency contraception without parental consent is more likely to prevent them from getting emergency contraception than it would be for older girls because it is more likely that incest was involved.
It should be remembered that Obama was going against the science when he talked about the potential for adverse effects, so that it not a legitimate excuse.
Yeah, I don’t get this. A judge says it should be available to everyone. The Obama administration says that if a 14-year-old girl has sex, she should more likely get pregnant than if she’s 17. I’ve got a friend who got pregnant at 13. It was an ugly situation. Plan B would’ve helped.
I don’t know what the fuck he’s talking about, his daughters. Who cares about his daughters? His daughters are set for life.
And this idea that the big danger is that little kids are going to wander into a drugstore and start buying Plan B for no reason it Republican-quality scaremongering. Might as well outlaw aspirin.
It goes beyond this, Booman. They’re requiring you to prove your age. You said it yourself with respect to voter ID’s: the poor do not carry state ID’s. The young, especially 15 year olds, do not carry ID’s because they can’t get a license. Sure they can get a photo ID, but what are the chances?
This is bullshit policy. End all age restrictions.
As for people having sex? All of the “popular” kids by 8th grade were having sex. Half of the girls in that crowd are now mothers with at least one child (one of which has three). So this was fall-2001, spring 2002. Right around 12 or 13, definitely not unheard of or rare. Quite the opposite.
How sad. The popular girls when I was that age were either very lucky or not having sex. Only one became pregnant and that was when we were high school seniors.
In a better world, girls would not become sexually active until they were somewhat emotionally mature enough to handle it. In our over-sexualized culture, better that Plan B be available than not.
A few of them hit on me. Luckily I was too young and stupid to realize that they were in fact flirting with me. Otherwise who knows what would have happened; my life could be fucked beyond belief.
Sex ed they definitely never talked about condoms. It was a joke now that I think about it. High school sex ed was nothing more than showing pictures of STD’s.
Not exactly where this old feminist anticipated equal rights would take us. Should have known better as the lowest common denominator tends to win. Meanwhile not much progress on that equal pay for equal work front.
And the closest planned parenthood was in Maryland. It’s somewhat of a tie between the one on the Maryland border and Richmond.
Tripling or quadrupling the number of Planned Parenthood clinics would go a long way towards educating men and women about reproductive health, reducing the teen pregnancy/birth rate, and reducing the overall cost of health care.
Surprisingly Virginia has a decent number compared to some states. Perhaps unsurprisingly, and sadly, most of them are either in liberal areas like NOVA, or near college campuses.
The PP near my college had a Crisis Pregnancy Center right next door. With my feminist college club Womenspace , my friend Kathleen and I went in under cover. No, we didn’t try to seduce any “nurses” (none of them had any training, as I’m sure you know), nor did we try and act as a pimp/ho duet. But we did get some insight into them first hand. We asked for some literature, which might as well be handed out by Operation Rescue. Then we asked about adoption, and they didn’t have ANY connections to any adoption agencies or any information about it whatsoever. Then they prayed for us, and we left. Turns out Focus on the Family’s message about “adoption” is widespread. And yet every 5 seconds I hear these idiot pro-lifers yammering about how great adoption is.
Careful now, Booman. Statements like that have been known to give some people the vapors. And likewise, it’s catnip to firebaggers who otherwise could not care less about the issue, but have a very demonstrable negative opinion about the dude they must share right away (Calvin Jones in 5..4..3..)
HHS and the administration were clearly full of shit on the 17-yr old issue. We can prove this by the fact that they’re already willing to bargain lower, no problem. Was it because it was an election year?
…Yeah, probably. But the only people truly qualified to describe and diagnose the precise stew of political pressures and activist and business lobbying that goes into seemingly nonsensical decision making like this are a bunch of anonymous midlevel staffers in DC, whose lives are clearly hell enough as is for having to go through all this bullshit on a daily basis. Best to just comment from afar with detached irony and assume it will get all squared away eventually, whenever.
And likewise, it’s catnip to firebaggers who otherwise could not care less about the issue, but have a very demonstrable negative opinion about the dude they must share right away (Calvin Jones in 5..4..3..)
Glad to see I’m known enough that you use me as an example of a Firebagger/Emo-prog. I’ll take it as a compliment. 😉
So much for Democrats respecting the science.
to make a “compromise” with the Right on every single issue, even if it involves rejecting science, joining in on the war on women, and not respecting the ruling of a Reagan-appointed judge, because Obama finds the ruling to “liberal”.
But I’m glad you pointed out the problem with how the Obama administration is handling this, Booman. I haven’t even seen a diary about this at dailyKos or (Firedoglake for that matter).
And somehow I don’t expect Rachel Madow to bring up the absurdity here, either.
Firedoglake had a diary:
http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/05/01/obama-still-fighting-court-order-on-plan-b-pills/
But I have to say that without David Dayen, firedoglake just sucks. Their news headline writer DSWright can’t write for shit, can’t analyze for shit, and isn’t even really a newsdesk person. They need new staff. Kevin G is good as far as reporting goes, but I never read his stuff.
I don’t think this is a compromise thing. On this issue Obama simply has his head up his ass without any help from Republicans.
I think some age restriction makes sense. Maybe not fifteen but some age. I don’t think many people would sell an eleven or twelve year old girls any over-the-counter medication, I certainly would not have when I was a cashier.
My gynecologist is very comfortable with plan B and thinks it should be available over the counter. I acknowledge her superior expertise in this matter but every drug has a potential for negative side affects and what concerns me about making this available to minors is that a girl who does have a bad outcome might lie about having taken the medicine, or might take too much.
There should be some oversight when children take any medicine. Is there any other medication that people want to make available to them without adult guidance? Because we are talking about children. Having sex does not magically make a twelve year old girl a woman or endow her with adult judgement.
In a better world, twelve year old girls would be protected from all the different ways that lead them to sexual activity, including physical and emotional coercion. They would all have caring, loving, and mature parents. Would have so much more that doesn’t leave them frightened and alone with a potential significant and life altering bad situation. We don’t have that world and it either hasn’t improved much over the past few decades or has gotten worse. Plan B is safe and the best the public is able and willing to do for young girls with no other viable options.
GOOD DAY!!Interesting topic and i want more information..
Precocious bunch, your set.
Our culture can’t decide whether we should be puritans or sexpots.
The president is flummoxed by trying to protect his daughters’ innocence at the same time as allowing them to become grown women, as if there is any control.
It seems to be hard to see that women’s rights really are civil rights.
We’re not talking about women. We are talking about girls 14 years old and under. We are talking about children and young teenagers. Girls who are too young to vote, drink or drive a car or work legally in most states.
Believing that young girls should be supervised while taking medication does not mean that I’m a puritan. If the medication was going to be dispensed by a nurse or a tech or some responsible adult that had access to a girl’s medical history and would be able to observe if there will any ill effect, I would be all for it.
Guess I should have said “pregnant girl’s rights.”
Sorry for taking this administration interference personal.
Has anyone identified a scenario in which Plan B is more harmful to a 14 year old than pregnancy?
The more I think about the more insane I think this thread is. The youngest pregnant girl I’ve read about was nine years old. Do you think she should have had access to Plan B? Do you think she should have access to Tylenol? Is it really within the realm of possibility that an 11 or 12 year old girl will be able to read and understand the package insert on this medication? Does anyone really believe that this is the one medication that has no side effects or contraindications or that every girl who would take it will have no health issues that might preclude taking it or be on medication that might interact badly with it?
I am sure that science indicates that there are minimal health risks to a healthy female taking this medication in the approved manner; minimal does not equal none. I am equally certain that most children are not competent to assess the risks or comply with any limitations that might apply to themselves . When my kids were 12, they couldn’t help themselves to Ibuprofen. Any pill they took, I put in their hands.
Fifteen seems like a perfectly reasonable age to limit this drug to; maybe 14.
Here’s the thing. You are worrying about stuff that is irrelevant.
Bazooka Joe:
Are you going to call Boo a Firebagger/Emo-prog now, also, too? Or just about any women’s rights group? This is one instance where trying to placate the Catholic Church(or even the President’s own insecurities .. given his stated reason months ago about this), is a bad idea.
My concerns are not irrelevant.
“The most common adverse reactions (≥10%) in clinical trials included heavier menstrual bleeding (31%), nausea (14%), lower abdominal pain (13%), fatigue (13%), headache (10%), and dizziness (10%). (6.1)
“…Plan B may interact with rifampin, barbiturates, or seizure medicines. Other drugs may affect Plan B emergency contraceptive. Tell your doctor all prescription and over-the-counter medications you use.”
”
Ectopic pregnancy: Women who become pregnant or
complain of lower abdominal pain after taking Plan B One-
Step should be evaluated for ectopic pregnancy. (5.1″
“5.1
Ectopic Pregnancy Ectopic pregnancies account for appr
oximately 2% of all reported pregnancies. Up
to 10% of pregnancies reported in clinical studies of routine use of progestin-only contraceptives are ectopic. A history of ectopic pregnancy is not a contraindication to use of this emergency contraceptiv
e method. Healthcare providers,however, should consider the possibility of an ectopic pregnancy in women who become pregnant or complain of
lower abdominal pain after taking Plan B One-Step. A follow-up physical or pelvic examination is recommended if there is any doubt concerning the general health or pregnancy status of any woman after taking Plan B One-Step”
“Plan B® One-Step should not be used if you are
allergic to levonorgestrel or any other ingredients
in Plan B® One-Step.”
I’ve been through two ectopic pregnancies and it’s not something that you want to deal with. But ectopic pregnancies occur when the egg is fertilized and begins its travels but never makes it through the tube into the uterus for implantation. Instead, it grows in the tube until the tube ruptures. That can happen in any pregnancy, but it only happens when conception has occurred and nothing has been introduced to stop the cell division.
Plan B is made to prevent conception from happening and there is no indication that it causes ectopic pregnancies. Anytime anyone who has become pregnant complains of lower abdominal pain, the possibility of a tubal pregnancy must be considered, especially because a rupture can be fatal.
I don’t want to totally dismiss your argument, but this is nothing like given a ten year old a bottle of aspirin. That would be far more dangerous.
I think you missed the part where it read that routine use of progesterone only birth control was associated with a 10% ectopic pregnancy rate which suggests that there is at least the possibility of Plan B being associated with an increase in ectopic pregnancies but that’s not really the point. The drug seems pretty safe although there have been many drugs that seemed safe until they went into widespread use. I have absolutely no objection to young teenagers taking it. I just think it should be supervised. Partly because I think all medications should be supervised in that age group and partly because it’s something girls would lie about. The point of those warnings is that there will be times when someone who takes Plan B should followup with a medical provider and I don’t think that a teenager who is hiding her use of Plan B is likely to take that step.
even more today:
The Obama administration is utterly shameless and beneath contempt. And Obama is turning out to be worse a worse human being than Bush II. The latter has the excuse that he is easily duped, but I don’t think Obama has that excuse.