Damon Linker is back for a second bite at the apple, but I still don’t understand his argument. This time, he reiterates that liberals are “cocky” and that we’re infringing on people’s religious freedom by requiring that contraception be treated as preventative medicine under ObamaCare and imposing anti-discrimination laws on gay-bashers.
Here’s the part that baffles me:
[Isaac] Chotiner and his fellow secular liberals may well be right that traditionalist views of sexuality are bound to evolve, with nearly everyone destined to accept and affirm the dignity of homosexual relationships. But given the commitments of these same liberals to personal freedom, shouldn’t they also insist that the evolution take place at its own pace, without being forcibly imposed by the coercive powers of the state.
It seems to me that legislatures pass new laws concerning things like homosexuality and contraception when the electorate has evolved enough to make the changes palatable. Mr. Linker doesn’t like when people compare gay-bashing to Jim Crow because he thinks the latter isn’t as well-supported by Scripture. But it’s still the case that the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act were passed over the strong objection of a huge part of the country. You can consider those laws to be forcible impositions of coercive federal power if you want. Certainly that’s how the laws were experienced by a lot of people. But the truth is that those laws were reflections of an evolution that had already taken place in the country. Passing legislation that reflects a change in societal attitudes about race or gender or sexuality is something that comes at the end of a process. If you’re an advocate for women’s health or gay rights, you’re trying to change attitudes so that you can change the law. You can’t do it the other way around.
We don’t live in a system where everyone has to be convinced before we can make a new law. So, how are we supposed to let all these things develop “at their own pace”? It seems to me that they have been doing precisely that, and now we are here.
I think what Linker is worried about is this:
…the Hebrew Bible and New Testament clearly do not teach (either explicitly or implicitly) that buying, owning, and selling African slaves is next to godliness.
The same cannot be said about the normative teaching on human sexuality contained within the Judeo-Christian scriptures — and even more so, within the interpretative and theological traditions that grow out of them. In dismissing this teaching so casually, Chotiner ends up implying that traditionalist churches and religious communities are the moral equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan.
If that’s an accurate evaluation of their moral status, then we can expect that before long traditionalist religious views will be denied legitimacy by the courts, denigrated in the public schools, and thoroughly marginalized in our public life.
If by “traditionalist religious views” Linker means discriminating against gay people, he may be right. But, more likely, their right to be gay-haters will go untouched and their only real loss will be the marginalization they experience. If anything, they should be able to use their religion as a shield that will allow them to continue to make life difficult for gays in ways that are more effective than the tools that were left to the lovers of Jim Crow.
What I don’t understand is why I am supposed to feel so much concern for the freedom of people to discriminate or deny women access to needed preventative health care. Ku Klux Klan members had feelings, too. They had certain freedoms that were taken away from them. No one told me that I had to wait for them to “evolve” at their own pace. No one told me that I should give a shit about their “freedom” to believe what they believed.
On that note, Andrew Sullivan can fuck off, too:
Liberalism vs Religious Liberty?
If the key is signing a form that requires active complicity in a system the Little Sisters object to, and if a letter merely stating their objection to the contraceptive coverage can suffice, then this seems like more than a temporary solution. This may be splitting hairs – but allowing for religious freedom in a secular society can often come down to splitting hairs. And what concerns me is less the details of this particular case than the general liberal contempt for the genuine moral quandaries religious organizations may face. Greenhouse’s column is a prima facie case of this.
To which I respond:
Get Your Fake Conscience Objections Off My Lawn
During World War II, men who refused conscription for reasons of conscience didn’t get to go back to their normal lives. They were conscripted instead for difficult, dangerous jobs. They served as forest fire fighters (including smoke jumpers), psych ward orderlies, and subjects in medical testing.
That program formed the basis of the Alternative Service Program used during the Korean and Vietnam wars. If a draft were called tomorrow, the Alternative Service Program would start right back up again.
And Alternative Service applies to work that people are required to actually carry out themselves, not to things they’re only required to pay for.
Every year, I pay taxes to the United States government. I tell myself that I’m paying for roads and schools; food for hungry families and head start programs.
I am, of course. But I’m also paying for Guantanamo Bay.
I’m paying for two wars, and for racist immigration laws.
I’m paying for drone strikes, including those that kill and maim children.
I’m paying for federal executions, and for lawyers to argue that the government is not obligated to provide comprehensive medical care to Chelsea Manning.
I’m paying for the prison industrial complex.
All of those things violate my religious beliefs.
And if I refused to pay my taxes because of that? I would go to jail.
There are Quakers whose consciences really won’t permit them to pay federal taxes. Many of them manage that by making sure they don’t make enough money to incur tax liability. They live on far less than they could earn if they were willing to pay taxes, but they’re willing to make that sacrifice, because their conscience demands it.
A very good friend of mine, now deceased, was a C.O. in VietNam. He didn’t get out of the draft. He was a combat medic. He simply did not want to kill anyone, even when he was being shot at. I know he was a better engineer than I. I suspect he was a better human being.
In WWII, conscientious objectors were often conscripted to serve as medics. Thus, they were shot at but carried no gun and didn’t get to shoot back. Even worse, they risked their lives to tend to those who fell in combat, often exposing themselves to gun or artillery fire, land mines and other dangers. They were extremely brave men. Far safer to remain in one’s foxhole with one’s gun when the shells are landing.
Damon Linker must be crying in a corner. This just happened 5 minutes ago:
Judge suspends Virginia’s ban on same-sex marriage
He’s not stupid in the sense of having a low IQ, but his mind is enslaved to a corrupt ideology that prevents him from thinking coherently.
In fact he is very much like my spinster aunt, who is highly educated and well traveled but who can’t let go of Creationism because she finds Atheists to be snooty and ill-mannered.
Or, as Link puts it, cocky.
They both commit the classic intellectual error of rejecting an argument because they don’t want its consequences to be true.
Damon Linker is making phony arguments of the sort that were made to defend anything indefensible.
The issue with contraception comes because the religious organizations operate a secular institution of some kind, are required to employ without religious discrimination for the secular jobs in that organization, and provide health insurance coverage to their employees. They want to use a secular organization to extend their religious reach but they don’t want it to operate as a secular organization; they can’t have it both ways. The ban on employees’ contraception coverage is a backhanded form of proselytizing, not an ethical statement. The pretense of ethical agony is rhetorical, or if not rhetorical adolescent.
The issue of discriminating against LGBT individuals or same sex couples comes down to prohibitions on denials of public services, employment, housing, education on the basis of non-relevant criteria. Period.
The accusation of liberals being cocky is to attract the attention of liberals and get Damon Linker mentioned and draw links to TheWeek. That’s just cynical blog pimping.
Damon Linker in the scheme of American politics does not matter one whit.
This reminds me of what (I think) Ruth Bader Ginsberg said about Roe v Wade. The Court outpaced the country, and so a large swath of people weren’t ready for it. And in this interpretation, that is one reason we’re still fighting for it. Whereas with Jim Crow and now marriage equality the people are getting there ahead of the laws and courts.
I don’t know.
Maybe it was Breyer.
What the hell is the myriad state strictures against gay marriage but “forcibly imposed by the coercive powers of the state.”
NO ONE is making Linker get gay married. THAT would be coercive.
Linker is just being a troll here.
And not a very smart one at that.
That ‘African’ is doing way too much work. Does he really not know that of course the Bible was used to justify slavery?
http://caho-test.cc.columbia.edu/ps/10265.html
Traditionalist churches and religious communities are the moral equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan.
No fear.
Because Viagra is not a preventative medecine?
I understand his concern. Before long, it will become illegal to discriminate against gays in housing, employment and in other ways. At the same time, one will face severe social disapproval for discrimination. But it doesn’t change the fact that there’s no legitimate reason to discriminate. The bible was used to justify slavery too. Freedom of religion doesn’t mean freedom to inflict your religion on others. Believe whatever the fuck you want but everyone deserves the same basic rights regardless of whether you like them or their lifestyle choices.
It may take some time to reach its final destination but that train has left the station.
Linker is a fool. I actually have a bit of understanding for the people on the right who want to see marriage as essentially a religious, faith based event. I can see how for some churches it is an essentially religious thing. For better or worse however it also has legal aspects and has for millenia. At the legal level, there can be no difference in rights.
If ANY of these RW 19th century “Christians” had even a bit of CHRISTIAN compassion for same sex partners and the suffering they endured due to lack of equal rights afforded them, those RWers could have found a solution by pushing for legal means to equate same legal rights to same sex partners.
They chose not to. And this is the big lie of omission that Linker commits. He doesn’t want to promote social justice so he won’t discuss it. He has no alternatives to put forward because he lives in bad faith. The RWers chose to oppress same sex partners and now Linker justifies by saying that is because they were painted into a corner? The RWers OWN that corner. They cling to that corner. They really ought to find a little courage, come out of their corner and look at life now and then.
Some people need to come to self knowledge that they live in a fantasy world. They can’t cling to Mayberry appearances when socially the world is in constant change. They’re clinging to superficial aspects of their “religion” and not the authentic core of it.
Nope, just more of the same “THEY threaten our marriage” BS. Meanwhile, is the reason for high levels of divorce and marriage instability where it is the highest?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/21/divorce-study_n_4639430.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009
Hey, tough shit for Linker. If he doesn’t like the direction and the pace of change in the USA, he’s more than welcome to move to somewhere where homosexuality is totally illegal.
I’d suggest IRAN, but that’s a little harsh on the Iranians.
Meanwhile in Indiana, a small victory today in the Indiana Senate.
As a result of the language being stripped from the bill, the constitutional amendment cannot appear on the ballot until 2016 and then only with the affirmative vote of the General Assembly. Two years should be enough to sink this despicable piece of crap legislation permanently.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: when a conservative* talks about “freedom,” he means the ability of the powerful to control the powerless without any restrictions.
*and I don’t give a warm shit whether Linker considers himself one or not. He is one.
Of course the Bible says almost nothing about sexuality (a couple lines out of thousands of pages), though there’s a fair amount about marriage in terms of rights (i.e. wife as property and inheritance rights/ descent). In fact, our current interest in human sexuality (not just reductively eroticism, which has been around forever as you can imagine) is a fairly recent, post biblical “evolution” – so take that, Damon Linker!!
It seems to me that technically no employer should have any knowledge of what medicine, etc., an employee is receiving regarding the employee’s health care. That is supposed to be private–very private.