Blows away the earliest conclusion of “instant death” for passengers and crew in downing of MH-17.
Australian MH17 crash victim ‘had time to put oxygen mask on’, says Dutch foreign minister
One of the victims of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash was found wearing an oxygen mask, raising the possibility that some passengers may have been conscious as the aircraft went down in eastern Ukraine.
“You know that somebody was discovered wearing an oxygen mask and had time to put it on,” Dutch foreign minister Frans Timmermans said on a late night Dutch chat show.
The foreign minister suggested the passengers may have been conscious as the plane went down.
The passenger concerned is understood to be an Australian, but that has not been officially confirmed. Dutch prosecutors have confirmed to the ABC that one passenger was found with a mask, with the strap around their neck.
New puzzle in downing of Boeing 777, passenger wore oxygen mask
- ○ Ria Novosti: Oxygen mask on the passenger means MH17 was not destroyed by an explosion
○ Ukraine InterFax: Version of the instant death of passengers “Boeing” near Donetsk questioned
Malaysia was stunned by the oxygen mask revelation …
○ Families of MH17 victims to seek damages from Dutch state, says lawyer
○ Investigators unlikely to get to MH17 crash site, says Dutch PM Mark Rutte | Malaysia Insider | Oct. 11, 2014 |
Dutch reporter Olaf Koens during interview late talk show with “Pauw.” [start @ 9:40 min]
“No problem to reach crash site, I could just drive to the area and see all the debris left untouched.”
See all my earlier diaries pin-pointing the discrepancies in the Dutch storytelling about the downed Malaysia Boeing 777 aircraft, flight MH-17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.
A grieving PM Rutte and the energy ties with Russia | Timmermans lands top job in Europe
More below the fold …
Grieving Dutch minister made Europe re-think Russia sanctions | Malaysia Insider | July 25 |
When Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans spoke to his European Union peers of his grief and anger over the downing of a Malaysia Airlines airliner over eastern Ukraine, it was a turning point in Europe’s approach to Russia.
Several ministers had tears in their eyes when Timmermans said he had known some of the 194 Dutch passengers among the 298 people who died on the plane, which Washington believes pro-Russian separatists shot down in error.
“To my dying day I will not understand why it took so much time for the rescue workers to be allowed to do their difficult job, and that human remains should be used in a political game,” Timmermans told the UN Security Council hours earlier, before flying overnight to Brussels for the crucial EU session.
…
Like a supportive family, EU partners rallied around the bereaved Dutch, putting national economic interests aside and for the first time going beyond asset freezes and visa bans on individuals to envisage curbs on entire sectors of the Russian economy that could turn the screw on President Vladimir Putin.Gruesome images of bodies strewn across fields after the downing of flight MH17 appear to have persuaded some of the opponents of sanctions to take a more decisive, if painful, stand against Russian destabilisation of Ukraine.
Within days of Timmermans’ address, senior EU diplomats had agreed the broad outlines of potential sanctions on Russian access to EU capital markets, defence and energy technology.
MH17: Reports submitted to Dutch, IGP heads to Netherlands on July 26, 2014 in Malaysia
KIEV – The Malaysian team investigating the crash of the Malaysia Airlines (MAS) Flight MH17 aircraft at a site in Torez, eastern Ukraine has submitted its reports to the Dutch authorities heading the investigation. MAS director of engineering and maintenance Azhari Mohd Dahlan, 53, who is one of three Malaysians conducting investigations into the crash in the Donetsk region, told Bernama: “We are relieved.”
See my earlier post for photo of Malaysian rescue mission in Donetsk link here.
Malaysian air crash investigators at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, near the village of Hrabove (Grabovo), Donetsk region
“All the investigation reports have been given to the Dutch as they head the investigation,” he said upon arrival in Kiev, about 800km from Torez by train Friday morning.
He, however, did not want to comment further on the four-day investigation carried out by him and the other two Malaysian investigators comprising Department of Civil Aviation (DCA) Senior Assistant Director Captain Philip Joseph Selvaraju, 42, a former pilot, and DCA Senior Assistant Director Mohd Naemy Fahmy Mustapa, 38.
Azhari and the 133 Malaysian special team members, led by Khairil Hilmi Mokhtar, who is also National Security Council (MKN) Cross Border Management Division principal assistant secretary, were scheduled to depart for Kuala Lumpur Friday noon (local time).
- ○ First posted here at Sundaily – MH17: Reports submitted to Dutch, IGP heads to Netherlands
| Posted on 25 July 2014 - 07:56pm | Last updated on 26 July 2014 - 09:57am |
[PM Rutte] Mark, Don’t Ever Complain Again! | July 24, 2014 |
The Netherlands has taken the lead in the investigation searching for forensic evidence in the downing of Malaysia Air flight MH-17 one week ago. Who are presently in the Donetsk region participating in the search? Malaysians, the international OSCE, Australians, locals, and a lot of international correspondents and tv/radio teams, but NO DUTCH!
I just watched a news item filmed at the crash site (35 km²). The interviewer asked the search groups for their impression. All admitted they were free to travel all over the area, and there seems to be no danger in the warzone. The anti-Kiev rebel groups do provide guards for security of the international group. While filming, the Dutch reporters heard loud explosions. The guards responded: “Grads, grads. Those are grads rockets launched by Ukrainian forces towards Donetsk.
Where there forensic experts present? No, there were three Dutch experts but they left with the train and refrigerated wagons carrying the body bags.
The Dutch say it isn’t safe to be at the crash site right now, how to you experience security? The OSCE observer said it was a bit tricky the first days, now we get all cooperation needed and with these heavily armed guards we feel safe. Others are agitated that after seven days the Dutch aren’t here with their experts to take the lead.
A Malaysian spokesperson mentioned Malaysia is an unaligned nation and takes no position in any and all conflicts. We are able to talk to all sides, also with the regional governor representing the rebels. The Dutch have done it ‘officially’ communicating through the junta regime in Kiev.
Foreign Minister Timmermans must have the best relationship with Kiev as he joined the EU representatives, US members of Congress and Vicky Nuland in their partnership on Maidan Square with the opposition to the elected government of Ukraine under Yahnukovich.
Dutch PM: ‘disgusting’ behaviour at MH17 crash site | July 20, 2014 |
In late August, Dutch PM Rutte had to retract these statements and accusations towards the “separatists” in the Donetsk dombass. During a Q&A session before Dutch parliament Rutte had to admit some 800 local rescue and first repondents had taken care of the MH-17 victims collecting bodies, body parts and personal items.
In October 2014, Dutch FM Frans Timmermans received an appointment as VP to Chairman Juncker on the executive European Commission. Thumbs up Frans for joining the neo-liberal gang and dispossession of your earlier socialist feathers on issues of Palestine and peace in an united Europe.
From my diaries:
○ Wretched Statement by Ms Clinton On Crash Malaysia Flight 017 | July 18, 2014 |
○ Shrapnel Damage of Cockpit MH-17 Devastating | July 23.2014 |
○ Dutch PM Rutte Abruptly Calls-off MH-17 Recovery Mission | Aug. 6, 2014 |
○ Was Malaysia MH-17 Downed by Su-25 Fighter Planes? | Aug. 11, 2014 |
Last year was a celebration year for economic ties between Russia and The Netherlands. Small irritations were already visible on the diplomatic front, an arrest of a Russian diplomat in The Hague, visit by Dutch royals to St. Petersburg and Vladimir Putin and of course the human rights pretense to boycott the Sochi Winter Olympics. It appears the Dutch were a key target for deterioration of economic ties with NATO’s new enemy state.
PS Why hasn’t there been a hassle ahead of the Sochi F1 races this weekend? Can anyone explain …
○ Frans Timmermans praised for MH17 crash handling in race for top EU job
I can guess. The general public pays no attention to Grand Prix auto racing. Why trash the Sochi race and give it free advertising? In addition, it would piss off racing fans/devotees.
h/t mina @MoA
This smells like disinformation. Pushing the propaganda towards a BUK felled MH 17 and that’s what Kiev has been asserting all along. A separatist attack with a BUK.
In a legitimate investigation, an oxygen mask strap around the neck of a passenger could either be a clue as to what happened or a fluke. But doubt this investigation is looking for anything but the story Kiev wants told.
How could it be a fluke? The passenger knew that the plane was malfunctioning and put on an oxygen mask. What’s so curious about this? Other passengers would certainly have done or tried to do the same. What does this tell us about the official Washington/Kiev/the Hague!/media narrative? Does it stink?.
Not often is there but a single possible scenario based on a single factoid. While I’m not currently buying the DC/Kiev/Nato narrative, I think it’s prudent at this time not to place any weight on an oxygen mask strap around the neck of one man, but keep it in reserve as other information is released. A passenger’s fingerprints on any oxygen mask would add weight to the narrative that you’re thinking of. As would highly credible evidence that the fuselage remained intact for several seconds after the plane was attacked.
btw, what appear to be flukes are only low probability occurrences and they happen everyday.
It’s not at all low probability: the passenger obviously knew something was wrong and put on the mask. Others did too. It might call it a fluke of chance if only this one passenger is found with a mask. Who know? It smells funny.
The fluke I was suggesting was that the oxygen mask strap could have wrapped around his neck in the process of the crash. Now if even one more passenger was found with a strap around his/her neck, we would know that it wasn’t a fluke and the passengers did have time to attempt emergency actions. So far, we only know of the one.
Had there been a real on-site crash investigation, they would also have checked for passenger fingerprints on oxygen masks. Supporting data for what happened in the cabin.
To the best of my ability to understand the possibilities for how MH17 was taken out, the BUK scenario is less plausible if the passengers had any time to respond. Whereas, if it were an air-to-air weapon that attacked the cockpit that then separated from the fuselage, the oxygen masks would have dropped and passengers would have grabbed for them.
Ukraine: President Poroshenko fires his Defense Minister Valery Heletey.
On his website a notification of new governors:
○ New Head of Donetsk RSA Oleksandr Kikhtenko
○ New head of Luhansk RSA Hennadiy Moskal
Who is Hennadiy Moskal?
Cross-posted from MoA blog – Ukraine: Waiting For Jack Frost.
At first I wasn’t going to cover this fact, however I observe how the politicians react. Dutch FM unintentionally leaked the evidence of oxygen mask. Af first there was a firm denial, it wasn’t true. Next day the Dutch prosecutor stated it was true. There followed an interpellation by Dutch parliament and deep regret and excuses were made to family and friends of all the victims because the fact the passengers may have become aware of their doomed plane and suffered anquish before death.
Beyond this part, the Dutch have been awkwardly reluctant to send rescue and recovery mission into East-Ukraine. Big words were followed by few deeds. Early lies and false statements were uncovered by a tiny part of the independent press and media. A lot of propaganda was broadcast by The Hague, cabinet members and parliament. The Dutch media were compliant.
PM Mark Rutte and FM Frans Timmermans followed the “correct” EU diplomatic route of talking and signing an agreement with the junta in Kiev, but refused to meet and talk to representatives of Russian speaking separatists in Donetsk. Just the last few days, the head of military police Pieter-Jaap Aalbersberg was on a mission to East-Ukraine and used the OSCE as intermediary for a renewed search of the crash site by the local first responders called SES. The very same organization that recovered all bodies, body parts and personal items from the large area where wreckage was spread. The early criticism was false and pure western propaganda. Three Dutch Cabinet Ministers have sent a letter [dated Oct. 9] to parliament with the latest progress in all three investigations: recovery and identification; criminal prosecution and the independent Dutch Safety Board – pdf file here.
○ Press release OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) to Ukraine | Oct. 8, 2014 |
○ Latest Ukraine Mission News on twitter @OSCE SMM
○ Dutch PM Rutte Abruptly Calls-off MH-17 Recovery Mission | Aug. 6, 2014 |
○ Malaysian Investigators Submitted Report July 26 in The Hague
I’m glad Radek Sikorski has been “ousted” from post as Poland’s FM in latest cabinet reshuffle.
The Netherlands media were compliant. Gosh!
○ Dutch expert: Ukraine body recovery team for MH17 crash ‘did a hell of a job’ | July 21, 2014 |