At times like these, I really enjoy perusing Red State. It amuses me that they think that they understand congressional procedure. But it’s pretty much just a right-wing version of Firedoglake.
There’s always a decent audience for the “standing on principles” purity bloggers but their analysis is never worth crap. If they have any real impact, it’s in terrorizing stupid politicians. They actively mis-educate anyone who relies for them for explanations of how a bill can become a law or what might reasonably be expected to be in those laws.
In this case, the analysis gives you a twofer. They don’t understand the procedural steps that they’re talking about and they fault the leaders for not doing things that their members do not support. You can’t just say that it makes no difference if you close down DHS if basically no one agrees with you. Plus, they still can’t explain why the Dems would ever cave to their demands.
It’s just impotent raging about an imagined impotence, when the real impotence is in the force of their argument. Not enough people care about Obama’s executive orders on immigration to make a DHS shutdown a compelling strategy even if it would somehow work.
So far ALL of the TP/GOP that I have communicated with are ignorant of how the Federal Government works. They have no idea of even the basic procedural matters. What they do is fall back upon the old the Federal Government can never do anything. They are actual proud of their ignorance.
They are actual proud of their ignorance.
They’re proud and boastful, but totally clueless as to the depth and breadth of their ignorance. How much they take from rightwing propagandists as factual and how little they read, think, and engage with educated and thoughtful people.
Far right politics selects for ignorance and stupidity.
More prevalent on the far right but hardly exclusive to it.
Recall an interview in NH right after the 2004 primary who said the reason she voted for Kerry is that “we don’t want to be at war in Iraq.” And there were Iowa DEM caucus attendees that year that were unsure who the candidates were.
True, but what’s interesting is how passionate so many on the right wing are about their talking points. In the climate “debate”, for example, surveys have shown that average right wingers have far more detailed knowledge than other population segments – it’s just that what they “know” is flat-out wrong (i.e. “the earth is actually cooling”; “scientists were predicting an ice age in the 1970s”; “satellite data says the earth isn’t changing temperatures”, etc.).
The other thing – and you’ll noted it from two of the examples I gave above in parentheses, is that often the “knowledge” they remember in depth contains elements that clearly contradict themselves. It’s a fascinating human cognitive model. There is a passion about a topic – often ignited by a free-floating anger – which motivates the wingnut to learn everything s/he can about the topic, but in practice this is just learning a large number of talking points by rote. There is no actual analysis to see if the talking points hold together to make sense, as the motivation is about arguing against the “other”, not about reasoning to a logical end. In arguments if one of the points is disproven the wingnut will just go to the next point, not internally concerned in the slightest what this dis-proval implies for the overall belief system, because the point is not to examine the belief system but to win the argument against the “other”. And of course, although the wingnut may appear to concede a point or two in a debate (in a roundabout way, which is by changing the topic), s/he will invariably return to the same point in the next debate s/he has.
Note also that what the wingnut learns from wingnut sites are not just talking points but debating tricks. Appeals to authority, reversing the burden of proof, moving the goalposts, changing topics to hide weaknesses, and if necessary inventing “facts” out of thin air. Thus the tricks of verbal sparring demonstrated by Hannity, Coulter, and O’Lielly are common throughout the common wingnut populace.
And thus, the wingnut is not only ignorant, but has layers and layers of protective mechanisms which hide their ignorance from them.
Aren’t they simply applying the same passion and search for facts and truth that they learned in Bible Study Classes?
Ha. Funny question. Having had the misfortune to sit in on a couple such classes my experience was that you were discouraged from asking actual questions that lead to any conclusion other than that which was actually intended. So, yes, there are similarities.
But do understand many – perhaps most – of the passionate wingnuts never attended such classes. They profess Xtianity as part of the tribal identity, but that doesn’t mean that they can identify which books are in which testament or anything.
I’d guess that a high percentage of them did attend such classes, formally or informally. No need to ask questions as they began knowing the answers and only needed to seek and memorize something from their sacred text that supported the known answers. Jesus Christ would be their guide — facilitated by wannabe future mega-church pastors.
upton sinclair is almost all you need to understand today’s gop. as a class they disdain expertise, because experts can see through their lies, which they insist are at least as valid as any studied conclusion. too lazy and fanatical to educate themselves, their only recourse is to attack education itself.
It would probably help if any of them had dick bigger than their pencil.
“It would probably help if any of them had
dicka brain bigger than their pencil eraser.”Fixorated for accuramacy.
Not enough people care about Obama’s executive orders on immigration to make a DHS shutdown a compelling strategy even if it would somehow work.
True that, outside of the DC crowd and political junkies like us.
I think I read that a majority actually support the executive orders.
All Congress has to do is pass a comprehensive immigration bill.
Yet, somehow, unpossible because Dhimmicrats are preventing Boner from EVEN THINKING about it, plus filibuster plus unconstitutional “presidentin’ while blah” and derp, SHUT UP!SHUT UP!SHUT UP!that’s why! And it’s all the other guy’s fault anyway.
Booman reads Red State so that we don’t have to. Sort of like a plumber rodding out a clogged toilet. Thank you Booman.
Booman, you should check out Peach Pundit (Erick has some connection to site). Ga has a majority republican legislature that struggles to govern. The teabaggers hate taxes and are completely unable to agree how to spend the billions collected. They did not expand medicade and 15 rural hospitals are about to close. A lot of people in Ga are about to die quickly.
Out here on the left coast, we finally had to elect a DEM governor and vote in DEM legislative super majorities because our state government became totally dysfunctional. The pockets in the state that are hopelessly addicted to crazy Republicans aren’t going to change — but now they don’t matter. Not as liberal or progressive as many of us would prefer (mostly because Brown isn’t and never was liberal), but it’s now competent and running smoothly. If we don’t get any relief from the drought, it’s going to be a mega-challenge, but not one the GOP has any chance to profit from.
We also got rid of gerrymandering…for now at least.
Brown isn’t a liberal but he is a progressive, in the classic sense, in that he is very much against concentrated power in the hands of a few ultra-wealthy.
He’s a quirky mixed bag. A product of his time and place and religion. We would have fared better with him as a leader if he’s been a Franciscan instead of a Jesuit.
Should add that like his father he’s an able administrator. Unlike his father, he’s not much into the economic wisdom of social democracy.
Got push-polled today. Tried to answer the questions in a good, progressive way. But they were worded to make that completely impossible. Questions like, “Would you support war against Iran if it prevented a nuclear holocaust?” And then you’ve got two choices: yes or no.
Hung in there for as long as I could. Yes I approve of the job Obama is doing. No I do not approve of Netanyahu. But when it got really stupid, I just said I’d had enough and hung up.
Love that question. Yeah, the answers to that are soooooo binary.
Sort of like, “Would you allow the CIA to put hot coals in your eyes if it would save everyone on Earth from alien genocide?” or “Would agree to become a slave if if it would prevent the total destruction of the planet?”
How about “Would you agree to the Koch Brothers becoming dual Emperors of the entire world, if it would prevent the Earth from exploding?”
I keep getting calls from the Gingrich folks. I finally snapped.
Treacly, pubescent female voice made a RW statement about Obamacare and asked:
Do You:
1. Agree Strongly with Newt Gingrich
2. Agree moderately with Newt Gingrich
3. Agree somewhat with Newt Gingrich
4. Somewhat Disagree with Newt Gingrich
My reply: Is there a category for “I wouldn’t piss on Newt Gingrich if he was burning in Hell”?
long pause ….
answer: “I suppose that would be a 4?”
“Plus, they still can’t explain why the Dems would ever cave to their demands.”
RS’ers and Freepers never have to explain such things. All the people they know hate Obama, the DEMOCRAT Party and all groups and policies associated with those moral failures. If Congressional Republicans just Grow A Spine and Do What’s Right, Real Americans will see to it that a DemonRat will never win an election ever again.
BooMan, this post of yours proves you are a filthy, lazy, America-hating Marxist. STOP BUYING LOBSTER WITH THE FOOD STAMPS YOU GET FROM MY HARD-EARNED TAX DOLLARS!!
One of the more interesting jobs I’ve applied for recently is a position writing neutral, nonpartisan articles about how US government works: everything from elections to processes and everything in between.
We don’t have an informed electorate, and that ignorance has led to all sorts of beliefs based on false premises.
But facts have a well-known liberal bias!
Why isn’t it obvious? The Dems have to submit to the force of the GOP’s superior positions, obviously. You act like Dems are independent actors with their own agenda.
So, “Triumph of the Will”? Why does that seem so disturbing, yet oddly apropos?
Well Boehner caved
GOP: House to vote Tuesday on yearlong bill to fund Homeland Security without conditions.
If you follow BooMan’s link to Red State, scroll down to the comments and drink up the sweet wingnut tears.