It used to be a simple question of stupid vs. evil, but I think we now need to add a third option, which is “afraid.” For example, not everyone who wanted to invade Iraq was so stupid as to think it was about weapons of mass destruction or that we’d be greeted as liberators or that our homeland was in imminent danger from that quarter. And not everyone who advocated launching a war of choice was guilty of depraved indifference about the likely consequences or motivated by simple bloodlust. A lot of people were simply afraid to go against the tide.
Likewise, there are those in the so-called Republican Establishment who are wise to the game that they’re playing on the rubes through the application of their Mighty Right-Wing Media Wurlitzer. They know that they’re ginning up resentment and anxiety and fear and race-hatred and division for naked political advantage. That doesn’t prevent them from sipping a cocktail with a Democratic operative in some Georgetown bar or hobnobbing with a liberal senator’s wife at some hoity toity Manhattan charity fundraiser.
There are others, however, who have marinated so much in the right-wing media bubble that they actually believe their own talking points. These are the folks who are genuinely petrified of getting Ebola or think that there’s a real epidemic of in-person voter fraud that requires hyper vigilance to combat. These people are genuinely stupid despite being elected officials and technically part of the “Establishment.”
The final category of people are the ones who aren’t so dumb as to not see what is happening, or to understand the negative consequences of it for the Republican Party and the nation. They’re in on the joke, so to speak, but they don’t approve. Yet, they’re afraid to speak out and will even parrot the bullshit in order to avoid getting challenged from a horde of lunatics who don’t know the difference between fear-mongering hype and basic reality.
The basic problem is that everyone on the right wants to benefit from having an electorate that is convinced that al-Qaeda is planting terror-babies at the southern border or that the government has robbed them of their Social Security and Medicare or that someone is coming any day to confiscate their guns. No one wants to give this up. Not really.
And the few people who see that this has gone too far and poisoned the minds of their base?
They can’t kick the habit and they’re petrified that even sticking their neck out to suggest some restraint will get their head chopped off.
So, what you get is the spectacle of Jeb Bush this morning complaining about the tone of the campaign right after he told everyone that the international effort to block Iran’s nuclear ambitions will do absolutely nothing to curb their nuclear ambitions and that it has for the first time created a situation in which the United States is responsible for creating Israel’s greatest existential crisis.
Here Jeb is utilizing the same fear-mongering tactics that have wrecked the collective brain of the right and sunk his campaign. And he’s endeavoring to use them to build enough “credentials” with the deluded that they’ll give his “tone it down” message a hearing.
Is Jeb suffering from epistemic closure or is he wise to the game? If he’s not stupid, and I don’t think that he is, what measure of evil vs. afraid are we dealing with?
His problem is that he can’t make up his mind.
If you want to get beyond name-calling and bogus talking points and have a substantive discussion, you can’t continue to try to prove your conservative bona fides by amplifying their stupid fear-mongering about Iran.
It’s not just Jeb, of course. This is the same malady that destroyed Eric Cantor and John Boehner.
It’s the same malady that will soon destroy Paul Ryan.
If the right wants to have a debate between Ted Cruz and Donald Trump and that’s what is going to constitute the scope of their reality then there’s no room for anyone who isn’t stupid, evil, or afraid. Whether you’re in on the game or not, you’ve become a victim of epistemic closure.
If you want to break out of that bubble, you have to stand with both feet outside it.
TBH I have no idea if they can win without it.
Don’t forget Hillary Clinton saying during the first 2015 primary debate that Iran was the enemy she was most proud to make and she wanted no-fly zones over Syria. And even more pertinently, the silence thereafter from the supposedly serious and sane and pragmatic Democrats. Are they too stupid to see the warhawkery, secretly lust after it, or are too afraid of hurting their candidate and/or themselves by gainsaying her on this issue?
Fear-mongering and the pants-wetting establishment that enables the fear-mongering ain’t exactly a Republican-exclusive memeplex, you know.
They are like the addict who has been hooked for so long that he completely forgets what it ever felt like to be clean. They can look back at pictures of themselves and listen to stories from their friends and family about those days, but to them they are all simply anecdotes. For all intents and purposes those times might as well have never even happened.
This monster is beyond the point of their being able to reign it in. The only option it would appear they have at this point is to let it wreak its inevitable havoc and try to rebuild from the dregs which remain; or stand up and be a martyr to principle. With the current crop of spineless creatures I doubt the line for martyrs will be a very long one.
There is a second thing going on here.
Like a heroin addict, they need to shoot a little more each time to get the same effect.
Or like the monster that you need to shock to make it move where you want, but it needs more juice each time to make it move.
Over the years the GOP has had to keep adding more hot sauce to make that base voter get excited. Now the amount of agitation that is needed is so great that there is no way to get them back to reality once you’ve got them moving.
It has become a runaway train. The fact that their base numbers are declining probably also adds to the need for higher agitation to make sure that more of them are shocked to movement by the hot sauce.
The emperor has no clothes, and there are nothing but pragmatic adults in the room.
The “afraid” part is what sapped so much of the Democratic Party when they had the potential to stop the juggernaut. It is fascinating that the rot is now roaring through the Republican Party as well.
There is a judgement coming at some point, a clarification that will shake US politics to its core, much as the crisis of the Great Depression did in the early 1930s. But this time it is a political crisis that is playing out in the rattling and the shaking of the Great Wurlitzer, frenetically playing the old tunes.
Painted into the corner by the depth and complexity of their lies.
It is clear that Russia, China, Iran, indeed all of the nations seated around the table in Vienna to talk about Syria understand the powderkeg of the American electorate. That is why we are beginning to have as many allies in foreign affairs as we had after 9/11–just this time the message to the US is to STFU for a change. Fortunately, for the moment the Secretary of State and the President seem to understand that at the same time they have to toss red meat to the USA! USA! bunch.
Republicans are under the delusion at the moment that they are on the eve of the long-awaited permanent Republican majority if they can just get Great Wurlitzer playing the right tune and sweep those pesky bought-off interviewers out of the way of asking questions instead of rolling the permanent free campaign ad.
Are Jeb’s SuperPACs and the Jeb! campaign frantically non-communicating that it’s time to pull the plug. At this juncture, what would Poppy do? Where is James Baker? In previous Bush campaigns, Baker would be the fixer. And he would find someone to prick the bubble from the inside. Nothing shows how much this is no longer Poppy’s Republican Party and has become the bought-and-paid-for party of the Kochs, Edelman, Trump, and the billionaires who thrive on the libertarian bullshit.
If the GOP implodes, let it be before next March.
But what I see in the dynamics of the parties is that GOP collapse will trigger DNC collapse from loss of its kabuki foil. And the election will be about the candidates themselves. It’s the consequences of freeing money from party control. And the ability of the candidates’ campaigns to organize and mobilize voters.
Chaotic in a way that we haven’t seen since 1968 is my guess but for much different reasons unless the gun nuts get restless.
I think the others seated around the table in Vienna understand the amount of pressure here against diplomatic resolutions, another reason Obama might get the agreements he and Kerry are pursuing. the others know this is the window of opportunity
Those who depend on a Westphalian global order to provide security and stability know that the loose cannons of non-state actors are a real danger. When they understand that that extends to transnational corporations is another question.
And when they realize that their own national security services are contributing to the proliferation of non-state actors, we might start seeing a backing off from proxie struggles and large defense expenditures. But backstepping down that road will be a delicate negotiation.
yes, yes and yes.
Stupid, evil, or afraid. The same as the Iraq war vote. The same as Viet Nam. The same as the drug war.
“not everyone who advocated launching a war of choice was guilty of depraved indifference about the likely consequences . . . . A lot of people were simply afraid to go against the tide.” If you’re reason for advocating invading Iraq was being afraid to go against the tide, then you are indeed guilty of depraved indifference about the likely consequences. This is a false dichotomy.
Looks as if the Cruz coup on debates is failing. Trump jumped ship and now
.
That leaves Carson, Cruz, Rubio, Bush, Paul, and Huck in the weinermobile.
This is what kills the GOP. The inability to govern. They cannot even govern themselves. The GOP does not even control the 100’s of billions donated to their candidates. Their candidates for president of the USA are completely out of control. 5 or 6 of them should no longer be on the debate stage. At this point why is a candidate with no money and polling just above the margin of error still running for the GOP nomination? Because no one is in charge of the process.
○ Fearmongering Works Well for Good Election Result
I think there is a larger picture that Jeb and Co are painting and it is is not entirely created to evoke fear from the base. They also want to evoke rage, and I think they are being successful.
The larger picture is : this administration and their enablers in the left wing media are incompetent in every respect, which of course includes foreign policy but is not limited to that. The gridlock and drift in Washington, the fact that you lost your union job at the plant, which was shut down and moved to Indonesia, the scary Mexican kids you see on the street and on TV, the bank foreclosing on your house, all this is entirely the fault of Obama and his Kenyan Muslim Socialist policies. And don’t get us started on the crazy leftists (or corrupt Clintonistas) who want to replace him! They are corrupt fools who are sure to destroy whatever is left of your nest egg and sell out the country!
This could be a winning strategy, even though it is based on lies. Hell, there are some regulars on this site who might agree with much of it. Not all fear based. Rage is an excellent motivator.
I really hope you’re right about that.
Yes. I’d love to squeeze that little pimple.
And where exactly do you place Obama and HRC on this continuum of evil–>stupid–>afraid?
They are supporting essentially the same PermaGov economic imperialist agenda.
What are they?
Stupid?
I think not.
Evil?
Doubt it.
Afraid that they will lose if they speak up?
Hmmmm…
Bet on it.
AG
Ignore the new troll, Arthur. Probably a Hillarybot. Maybe even paid.
I was answering Booman, Marie.
His first sentence.
Or…is that who you mean?
AG
Those three poles of awfulness have never been mutually exclusive. But for most Democrats since 1946, cowardice has often been the best explanation, often framed as “pragamatism”.
What is true about both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama is that from the moment they became political powers in DC, the defamation machine that the rightwing unleashed on them has been relentless. The outright lies that have been told about them obscure for too many Americans their real weaknesses and failings and in fact have demonstrated that both are not stupid, not evil, and definitely cowed only in certain situations.
But both are infuriating in their approach to policy and how to go about implement it, and likely both are so delegitimized that getting the respect of the institutions they are trusted to lead takes more of an effort for their ambition to get something accomplished that would be the case of someone less tough.
Both however can be easily blindsided by underestimating the animus against them just for aspiring to be “the first…” and actually having the plan to make it happen.
It is the minor things that is their vulnerabilities, most frequently the people they select for advice, or the partial victories they accept that turn out to be tactical cul-de-sacs.
They suffer from comparison to our expectations.
Tarheel…
You write about Obama + HRC:
I wrote:
“Cowed only is certain situations” is simply not good enough because talented opponents will learn how to create those kinds of situations.
A great leader…and God knows we need one right about now…is fearless without being psychologically impaired. Without being a sociopath, to put it bluntly, which is my own take on Trump. Fearless because of some sort of faith, like Gandhi or MLK Jr.
Does HRC have that seed of greatness within her?
Could be.
She has certainly survived the trials and tribulations of outrageous fate several times over.
We shall see, soon enough.
Let us pray.
And let us hope that she prays as well, because right now it looks to me that she is the certain front-runner not just for the DemRat nomination but for the presidency as well.
Let us pray.
AG
I’m willing to watch both Sanders and Clinton until February to see how they manage SuperTuesday. Clinton flubbed it in 2008 and did not know how to compete against a black candidate in the South (or to be more accurate, Bubba flubbed it). Sanders has a similar situation in relating to voters who might see him as the spoiler of the election of the first female President. I don’t think that Sanders will flub that issue like the Clinton campaign did in South Carolina.
Clinton is depending on heavy local support in the South for those primaries; is she also building strength for the general election in those parts of the map? Might we see women use the power of the secret ballot to hold their husbands accountable in red states? I’m not betting on it, but it is a possibility.
What we do know is that she can stand up under hostile questioning for 10 hours. None of the Republican candidates can even hold up for one hostile question. More debates with good moderators (League of Women Voters step forward) could attract an audience and educate the public about issues. And demonstrate what respect in politics looks like (might be a shock for a lot of voters).
Let us pray that she finds different foreign policy advisers than the neo-Dulllesians that she has been listening to.
TarheelDem, HRC choses advisers who confirm her prejudices and foreign policy goals. She is not their victim, she has not chosen them randomly. Anyone who can still cite the destruction if Libya’s social and political structure as an example of smart power would be hard put to find a better example of stupid power. She is a child of the fifties and has remained stuck in the mindset when the US was powerful beyond anyone’s imagination. After the utter disasters/crimes in Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. you’d think she would have evolved a little. Barry Goldwater stays in her fibre and always will. I willingly give her due credit for taking the Republican’s bullshit for ten hours and remaining poised and to the point. That performance probably belongs in the Guiness Book of Records.
And now I read at Antiwar that the Tripoli government is threatening to overwhelm Europe with refugees if Europe doesn’t recognize it as the legitimate government of Libya. All hail to HRC, Susan Rice, Samantha Power, etc. Just as Erdogan is blackmailing Europe into admitting Turkey into the European Union if it doesn’t agree to his logistical and financial terms for stemming the flow of Syrian refugees. Sure, keep encouraging mayhem in Syria. May Russia succeed in putting a lid on the mess. The US will only intensify it. Great!: Obama announces the deployment of special forces to northern Syria as Kerry sits in Vienna discussing a possible agreement about the future the country. Smoke and mirrors = lies.
Leaders require followers who will salute and obey. The deadwood from Vietnam and the Middle East wars will bedevil any President for years to come. And the ambiguity about the assassination of JFK hangs over leaders. None are complete free agents and the internal politics in Washington are quite complicated if you have read some substantial histories of the post-WWII era internal discussions and maneuvering.
No player is a complete victim; they all have a certain amount of agency that they can exert, some more forcefully, some more skillfully than others.
Time to look at who the foreign policy advisers to the campaigns are. They might not be the key players, but they likely will have a say in who the key players are.
I would look for someone who is not a household name but who was a key adviser to Kerry on Iran and Syria being a key player at best, and of course the worse case is Victoria Nuland and the neocon cabal. So who is briefing Hillary and Bernie on foreign affairs for the campaign?
You write:
You make so much sense so often that I feel I must call you on this one. “Prayer”will get us nowhere regarding this wish. The single thing that would free her from the confines and depredations of these advisors…if she indeed wants to be freed, which is another question entirely…would be freedom from the financial constraints of big-money politics. Once elected she would be theoretically free to do that, but the last president who even considered a betrayal of that sort ended up shot in the head in Dallas, Texas.
HRC’s momma didn’t raise no fools.
For sure!!!
Pray on, though.
Miracles do happen.
Later…
AG
Arthur Gilroy, I have no idea what might give this world and the USA in particular a glimmer of hope (not Obama’s deceitful kind), but I do know for sure that prayer and praying will be of absolutely no use. The sentiment will just make things worse. We’ve been there, done that.
Nothing, short of revolution.
Now get out there and revolt.
(Unless it’s not really that bad out there, and this is just a rhetorical pose.)
Right, no, I’d rather pray because it’s so exquisitely futile. It would even be better to vote for HRC than to pray.
You’re an anti-prayer zealot, now?
You’re going to need much better bread and circuses.
Yes, I’m anti prayer. A zealot? No. Pray if you want. But I can also say if I find it absurd. Where does all that prayer get you to: God Bless America.
Quentin…
I pray in my own way.
Charlie Parker once answered an interviewer’s question about his religion affiliation by sating “I am a devout musician.” Deep. Me too.
My “prayers” move others…and myself…in ways that cannot be understood by the limited so-called “rational” mind..
We each have to try to remember our real place in the universe. Over and over and over again. It’s what we do as humans. The greatest minds of our forebears founded “religions” that were based on attempts to help people do just that. Those religions calcified…as does every other human cultural action…into the opposite of what was intended. From Charlie Parker to Kenny G. in 3 or 4 easy generations. From Christ to the Crusades in many more generations. Like dat. So it goes. We must invent ourselves anew. You do it your way…hopefully…and I will assuredly do it in mine.
You take the low road and I’ll take the high road. We’ll both get to Scotland eventually.
I pray.
Later…
AG
I was referring to the troll rating from the troll.
And don’t call me Marie! Or Shirley!
Sorry, Voice. My error. Too many things to do; neither time nor brains enough to do them all right.
I do keep trying, though.
Later…
AG
Why go against the grain of evil/stupid/fear when you have nothing else to offer? It’s not like folks will be drawn to Republicans for their innovative policy.
Taxes! More free stuff from the Republicans! Have government with the little people paying for it. No taxes!
Aside from the fundie true believers, who basically want some sort of patriarchal theocracy, my take is that a lot of your average Republicans, who consider themselves a bit more clever than the rest of the rubes, think that all politics are corrupt. The thing is, they think that they are actually in on the con. Really, that’s where a lot of the rank hypocrisy of the Republican party comes from- it’s not a matter of what policy works or doesn’t, or principles even, it’s just a grift to make themselves some money (or, now more often just to keep the people they don’t like from getting any money)
That these people are completely incapable of understanding that in fact they are the ones who are being fleeced by the billionaire class is what is so sad. But I guess once you read Ayn Rand, you never go back, or something like that…
There’s an old expression – probably it’s Russian, but I heard it in Yiddish — that says: “If you’re afraid, don’t go into the woods.” If somebody with the yikhes (pedigree) of Jeb Bush is really afraid of these guys, he shouldn’t be in the woods with them. He should get out and do something else.
Because anyone who is not a real prisoner of that mindset bears more responsibility for what happens than those who are. Not to flirt with Godwin’s law, because this is just a parallel, but it reminds me of those who knowingly financed Hitler for their own benefit. (Come to think of it, some of those folks were actually named “Bush” — but I digress . . . )
What I meant to say is that those who financed Hitler might later have had second thoughts over what they had created. Second thoughts as they cried all the way to the bank.
jeb? isn’t quite out of it yet. Still only November, and he’s got millions in his SuperPAC.
Bushes don’t quit just because they’re getting a few months of bad pub. See Poppy 1980 and early 1988.
And the Bush machine is just getting warmed up in going after Rubio.
or they simply believed their President, it was a pretty bold lie. remember that people didn’t believe the GOP positions when read out to them because they said no one would advocate those positions? I’m sure the same thought crossed a lot of people’s minds then too that the President had to be telling the truth because him not was unthinkable in this case