Perhaps it is unfortunate, in a way, that Bernie Sanders has a substantial amount of personal charisma and has won the allegiance of quite a number of people based on them liking him personally rather than for what he has to say about U.S. foreign policy and economic justice. The reason I say this isn’t because I think this number is that large, but more because it has contributed to a sense that there is a Cult of Bernie with ardent and sometimes misbehaving acolytes. Some people call them Bernie Bros., but that insulting catch-all doesn’t capture what’s driving so many Democrats into the arms of an (until recently) independent Socialist who is still a harsh critic of the Democratic Party and its leadership.
From a personal perspective, I’ve been traveling in progressive circles for more than a decade now, and I’ve been part of the liberal blogosphere almost since its inception. By far, most of the people I’ve become acquainted with, many of whom are among the most committed and experienced Democratic organizers and partisans you will find, have been Bernie Sanders supporters from the beginning of this campaign. By and large, they aren’t part of any cult and they haven’t been drinking any Kool-Aid.
The liberal blogosphere snapped into existence at a time when it seemed that the Democratic Party had lost its way. They had lost the election in 2000 (made it close enough to steal, if you will), had failed to stop Bush’s devastating tax cuts, and were showing no backbone against Bush’s post-9/11 national security insanity. In the 2002 midterms, the Democrats performed much worse than expected.
Meanwhile, the media was not questioning the assumptions behind or the factual basis for the march to war in Iraq, and they were painting concerned citizens as unpatriotic.
In the beginning, the progressive backlash against this didn’t much include any retrospective condemnation of the Clinton administration, except to the limited degree that some blamed it for letting things get so out of whack. It wasn’t until we had the 2008 primary that progressives began having an internal argument about the legacy of the Democratic Leadership Council and the triangulating ways of Bill Clinton. This was fueled further when the economy collapsed in September of that year, which eventually led to the Occupy Movement and a further split on the progressive left.
And, while there was a split between pragmatic progressives who were primarily interested in the Obama administration’s success and more idealistic progressives who were taking to the streets, they still agreed on some basics, including that our foreign policy establishment is too hawkish, we are badly in need of real meaningful campaign reform, and that wealth disparities are far too great in this country. When Bernie Sanders entered the race carrying that message, it was natural that progressives of all stripes would find it very attractive.
Many of them didn’t think Sanders was a serious candidate. Some liked his message but didn’t think he was an ideal messenger. But they supported him anyway because they wanted the message heard by the Democratic Party. And one way to get that message across was to elect delegates to the convention who would voice it. The more delegates, the better, but it wasn’t really about winning the nomination for Sanders.
What I am saying is that what began for a lot of people as a vehicle for change within the party became somewhat of a victim of its own surprising successes. Sanders has won primaries in 20 states, and won about 45% of the pledged delegates to the convention, and so he’s now seen as a serious candidate by a lot of people who have grown so committed that they’re fighting as hard as they can against impossible odds to get him elected.
And they’re beginning to irritate a lot of Democrats who want to get on with the general election and are worried about polls that show Trump uniting Republicans while the Democrats are still badly divided.
These irritated Democrats are lashing out at Sanders’ supporters, saying that they aren’t real Democrats, and they don’t care about the party. They’re saying that they’ll stay home in November or vote for Trump out of spite. They’re deluded and violent and threatening and disloyal.
But don’t forget who most of these people are and why they care about politics and policy. Because the Sanders supporters aren’t just the most obnoxious person you just encountered on Twitter. Among their rank include a huge percentage of the folks who stood up back in 2002 and said that something was terribly wrong with the country and with the Democratic Party. And they were right back then, and they got organized, and they put some backbone in the party and they got progressive-minded people elected, and they turned opposition to the war in Iraq from a liability to the official position of the Democratic Party and the president who was elected in 2008.
What they’re saying now is that we still need to question the Washington Playbook on foreign policy, and we need to have more urgency about climate change, and we have to get serious about doing something about money in politics, and that the Democrats have to pivot away from the donor class and develop programs that will appeal to middle class folks who are really struggling in this economy.
It’s hard to see where they’re wrong about any of this, at least in the big picture. Even if their critiques often break down when analyzed at a more granular level, that doesn’t mean that the aspirational nature of their critiques should be silenced.
So, what the Sanders campaign really is when you get past the idiosyncrasies of Bernie Sanders, is an expression of dissatisfaction with the status quo and a desire to change the party to meet the needs of the country on a more urgent basis. And the practical way that can be done is by having their voices heard at the convention. To the degree that this ambition is shunted, the progressive conscience of the party is marginalized and frustrated.
The focus shouldn’t be so much on personalities or the worst behavior of the loudest and most annoying people. It should be on the big picture. Young people, in particular, are vastly more attracted to the Sanders message than what is being offered by Clinton. These are potentially Democratic Party members for life, but that isn’t going to happen automatically, and especially not if they feel that their beliefs are unacceptable and have been defeated.
The youth, the committed organizers, the fighters who stood up when no one else would, these are not simple Bernie Bros. or chair-throwers or disloyal Johnny-Come-Latelys. If they are lumped all together, insulted, and told that they are not welcome, that’s going to come with a cost for the Democratic Party that the party won’t want to pay.
Clinton will be the nominee of the Democratic Party, and she wants to win. That means that dealing with this division in the party is her problem. She’s got to figure out the best way to bring the party together. If that means being a bigger person, or if that means making an uncomfortable concession, or if that means adopting or even co-opting some of the Sanders agenda, then those are things she’ll have to consider.
What won’t work is pretending that progressives are all primarily concerned with one individual named Bernie Sanders and that this is all about him.
It never was all about him. It just got to seem that way.
Well done. I find little to dispute in this description.
This is the truth.
Here are some more:
1. Everyone saw the vacuum to Hillary’s left. What no one really saw was how big it was. Bernie (and he has some pretty big flaws) has 43% of the popular vote.
I never saw that coming. And I think it caused those of us on the campaign wishing we could do summer 2015 over again. I think those of us who have worked for him look back and think goddam it – we actually could have won. I don’t think in June 2015 any of us really believed it.
Pat Cadell wrote Gary Hart a long memo in late 1982. In it he said insurgents seldom have a plan for actually winning. Their plan ends at the first battle. And that is right: because if you don’t win the first battle the second never happens. But he made sure Hart had one in ’84 that went past New Hampshire. I don’t think we ever really had one. I get why now – the focus is always on the tactical necessity.
There is a story about the Battle of Gettysburg. Lee had just barely been stopped, and he thought one final push and he would win. So he ordered a frontal assault – which he almost never did.
It was Pickett’s charge, and it was a disaster.
I worry the Sanders campaign is nearing its own Pickett’s charge. Lee said afterward his blood was up.
Make no mistake mine is as well, as is a good deal of the people I know on the campaign.
It’s not the mindset in my experience that leads to the best decision making.
2. What I find most interesting in all of this is rarely do you ever get into a policy exchange with the Clinton. I can do the list: Iraq, Welfare reform, Syria, etc…
But when you try policy the Clinton people in my experience want to change the subject immediately.
And I think it is because some of them know they are out of stop with the Party rank and file. Single Payer, foreign policy. The Clinton’s are on the extreme right within the Party. And so they change the subject as quickly as possible.
Because it is policy that really drove people to Sanders. The funny thing is until this campaign I thought he was well to my left.
Imagine my surprise to find he isn’t to my left, and isn’t to a good portion of the Party as well.
To me, Bernie Sander’s candidacy is about simple brute political survival. Before O’Malley’s world got rocked with those (very richly deserved IMO) Baltimore riots, I was pulling for him not because I most agreed with his policy positions but because I thought that he could do the greatest good.
Bernie Sanders having by far the best platform of the serious candidates is a plus, but what really put me in his camp is that a simple demographic analysis shows that he’s the only real way forward such that we don’t have a complete fascist takeover of federal government in 2020 — though thanks to Hillary Clinton’s ineptitude, that might be as soon as 2016.
Democratic partisans sneering at his campaign by saying that he’s not a ‘real democrat’ or ‘isn’t doing much for the party’ or ‘isn’t appealing to the traditional states and bases’ make me want to facepalm. No fucking shit, guys. That’s supposed to be a plus, because the Democratic Party as she stands is on a road of destruction!
I found it to be quite disappointing that Sanders stuck so close to the Obama WH line on Syria. I think if had more of a foreign policy critique than Hillary’s Iraq war vote he would have done even better. He could have drawn a greater contrast over issues like civil liberties, the drone war, or the perpetual war state. Basically, as you imply, he turned out to be a bit too centrist for me.
I look at the Bernie supporters who now want to take their ball and go home and find that kind of pathetic. They would rather destroy their leverage rather than take advantage of an opportunity to consolidate gains. If Bernie had gotten to work just a bit earlier and branched out from his economics bread and butter he may well have dominated the race similar to Trump. He wasn’t ruthless and he needed to be to beat the Clinton machine, given how weak she appears to be.
Boy howdy, but that sounds good.
Only thing is that the establishment has never wanted the critique that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren represent, and they will certainly discredit that critique through falsely making it all about Bernie the political personality.
In the end, the reason it’s so disappointing is just how predictable it really is.
If I used Facebook I would like this post.
I’m a little confused here, though I think the thrust of what you say is excellent. My confusion, Martin, is about the lumping together of the progressive blogosphere, the organizers, and the chair throwers. It’s in this paragraph:
“The youth, the committed organizers, the fighters who stood up when no one else would, these are not simple Bernie Bros. or chair-throwers or disloyal Johnny-Come-Latelys. If they are lumped all together, insulted, and told that they are not welcome, that’s going to come with a cost for the Democratic Party that the party won’t want to pay.”
I think the party would welcome most all of these folks and would take them seriously. But what will it take to convince them that they are not being insulted or not welcome? Isn’t there a degree of civility and persuasion required for them to be heard? (Maybe I’m too old.) Or is chair-throwing speech that has to be accepted and responded to? The organizers, the progressives, the people who want to work to make change — not just have a tantrum and demand change — they will be heard, I believe, if they approach things civilly. I guess others (here, perhaps) are so frustrated that they will think that they won’t be heard, no matter what.
Civility in my experience means the establishment hears you out, smiles and nods, then procedes to do whatever it wants. Civility in my experience just makes it easier for you to be marginalized and ignored.
This. Tone policing has a long, dishonorable history of being used to descredit activism instead of honestly responding to the issues being raised. Civil rights, women’s rights, LGBT rights, climate change, etc … somehow it’s never possible to speak politely enough for the people in power to deign to listen. It’s only possible to speak politely enough to be ignored.
The simple truth is you can not just roll over people and get away with it. What happened with the chair throwers is they felt they were not being heard. Ignoring them or condemming them,as DWS did last night on national TV, will not play well. I think this is more than Bernie. This is about the goals of the party and how to get there. There needs to be conversation.
I’d also add that the Democrat establishment as a whole has given me no reason to believe they want to get to where my beliefs are. Bernie has. I can in fact live with a difference of opinion in how to get there, not whether to get there.
Sanders prescriptions HAVE engendered some economic challenges to the norms. Entrenched low productivity is causing a lot of heartburn among the conventional ones.
I agree with the first statement, though again history has made me wary of betrayal. Can you explain what you mean about the second?
We have been lucky to manage growth in the 2% range, but going forward, 1% is seen as more likely if we stay on the same path. That will have political consequences.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/18/business/economy/a-growth-rate-weighed-down-by-inaction.html
“Hillary Clinton, who has put together a coherent platform focused on raising the incomes and enhancing the economic security of middle-class families, has steered clear from addressing the very real danger of low growth over the coming decades.
Voters should not let the candidates avoid the tough questions: What, if anything, can and should be done to enhance the economy’s ability to grow? Should the prospect of long-term stagnation inform policy more directly?”
Hillary has avoided the tough questions. Her $100 billion a year in fiscal action is inadequate.
It’s not that 1% is more likely; it’s that the Fed’s target growth rate will wind up around 1% in reality.
One thing that has not been addressed is the amount of corporate featherbedding that causes a multiplier of price increases as the growth rate increases. Has anyone investigated the extent of this dead weight?
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard of the UK Torygraph (Telegraph) was bitching today that US balancing its budget is not putting enough bonds to sell into the market and that prices (and interest rates are going down). There’s a case of austerity coming back to bite the establishment.
Whatever the case, CEO salaries will not be stagnant.
They want more QE and asset inflation to prop up stock prices?
The fed is now talking about raising rates in June. Sounds nuts in a 2% or less economy. One could get to thinking their patrons are the super rich and not Joe Sixpack.
Banks want to collect more fisk-free interest from taxpayers for their excess reserves. Very perverse incentives.
Of course, raising rates will also depress employment, taking pressure off wages.
Too, there is a theory of raising inflation by artificial means to give better economic numbers–I think Japan came up with that idea…
One of the large banks even said they wanted more interest
I think it is the other way around. The Federal Reserve Board perhaps realises that low interest rates create perverse incentives for most players in the economy and encourages debt; of which we have a substantial overhang at all levels of the economy. It would seem clear since 2008 that with Wall Street and global corporations capturing all profit and most growth benefits that the old Keynesian stimulus policies have a ceiling which we probably broke through years ago.
We are looking at negative interest rates if no policy is changed going forward; raising interest rates may seem counter-intuitive but it is our only hope. It will be painful for a while for all concerned but better in the long run. Ask anyone attempting to actually save instead of borrowing.
http://fortune.com/2016/05/13/fed-yellen-negative-interest-rates/?iid=leftrail
Negative interest rates are being studied by Yellen.
My view on negative rates in an economy is about the same as negative altitude in an aircraft; possible but only in rare circumstances and not for long.
Negative rates are pretty high on my list of symptoms of a diseased economy where most of the juice is sucked out by scavenging and exploitation and incentives are consistently perverse. Stock buy-backs, for example, are a malign fashion made attractive by low rates.
A person commented to me today that she thought she might have to hide the $$ in the mattress. I informed her that the average insurance policy only covers a $100 cash loss for one’s residence. She wanted my advice. I told her I didn’t have any at the moment.
A cynical person might suspect that the powers that be want to insure that we can’t hide our wealth from the scavenging and exploitation.
Wait till they perfect a digital currency they can control;
good bye hard cash.
True control will begin, with very few ways around it.
That anyone could cite Ambrose Evans-Pritchard on the subject of anything, even something one opposes, is downright terrifying.
He’s actually been pretty good on the euro crisis and austerity.
Bit like Martin Wolf of the FT. Crises seem to have knocked some sense into him.
The economic problem is enormous. Larger than I think those with no training in economics understand.
Clinton’s proposals are simply not on the scale to really change much. Sanders are – though I don’t believe in some of them.
But the problem in some ways is a result of economic theory. In truth we really don’t know how to generate equitable growth. There are things that can be done, but I am not convinced an economic framework exists that describes how to do it in a world characterized by globalization and weakening counter balancing forces against capital (eg unions)
If demographic projections are to be believed we better figure out how to remain prosperous in a low-growth/no-growth consumer environment; some predictive models have world population flattening by 2050. This kind of thing makes real estate agents’ heads’ explode.
Where GDP = Productivity growth + population growth the outlook isn’t so great.
Heh. Already discussing how productivity is flat lining. Millennials are not having kids, either. Rough sailing ahead.
Why wouldn’t the thought leaders have seen that if you tilt the house odds too far the punters stop betting? Seems like a basic rule to me. They missed it. “Lower interest rates,” they said “consumers will gorge themselves again on debt and we will prosper accordingly.”
Heh. Instead the consumer stays home while the ‘masters of the universe’ borrow astronomical sums to buy back their own company’s stock and make the annual report look glossy. Nincompoops. We need new leadership; this bunch are stale, inept and lazy.
Maybe change their field to real estate management as all housing stock is bought up by free money from the Fed to hedgies for rentals.
“…problem in some ways is a result of economic theory”
Oh, I think it has reached the level of religion, not theory any longer. Too much evidence of failure out there being ignored.
Is why signs of “heterodoxy” are a hopeful thing.
The best way for her to unite the party is to quit the race and apologize for all the cheating and disenfranchisement.
Phony temporary adoption of the Sanders agenda won’t do it.
Ive said before the only thing that convinces me will be actually governing progressively. But since her income has been goldman sachs derived for 3 years and before that she was either trying to drag us into wars or pushing Obama’s line not hers, the opportunity was lost.
This is hilarious. Thanks for that.
I won’t pretend to be a lifelong Democrat but I have been one for 24 years.
I used to say that George Herbert Walker Bush made me a Democrat and his son made me a liberal Democrat.
That’s still true, but now I have to add: But Hillary Clinton and her sleazy husband have turned me back into to a Republican.
Well, aren’t you malleable.
So being a GOP troll is your role here now? Being a flack for Trumpian nonsense about “illegals”, for example?
Hope is addictive. And, like it or not, Trump has said some shit that I flat-out agree with. I loathe him for giving me very good reasons to vote for him despite his promise of narcissistic fascism, but not as much as I loathe the HRC circle and their ‘vote for the slow decay of the planet or you’re RACIST’ strategy.
Personally, I think Trump is running a con-job and is just waiting for his opportunity to stab the middle American radicals in the back and run as a movement conservative — like all of those billionaire maggots when it comes down to it. So even on points that I think Trump is better than most liberals on (for example, using MMT to neem down the debt-to-GDP ratio; that one made me jump with shock until I remembered ‘oh, yeah, Donald Trump’) I don’t believe him for a second.
But I can understand where guys like Lost is coming from. I sympathize with him more than smug-ass liberals who value making good on decades of sublimated post-Nixon-Reagan ressentiment more than advancing human progress.
Trump’s political platforms are only wings of a windmill.
I don’t know what else to tell you.
Well, no shit, but then we’re back at square one. Voting, as the best option, for someone who promises more of the slow decay of the United States.
This might surprise you, but most people aren’t that hard-hearted and ‘pragmatic’. They want to have hope for the future, even a slim hope. Even a ridiculous hope.
And before you condemn Voice, I’d just like to point out that I see a fuckload of Hillary Clinton supporters peddling self-delusions like 2018 not being a disaster, Hillary Clinton having a more left-friendly achievable plan than Sanders, Hillary Clinton learning her lesson from the Libya and Iraq debacles, etc. They’re still desperately overlooking reality as much as Voice is.
You remind me of my neighbor B, who told me in 2000 that he was going to vote for Dubya because “we need an adult in the White House”.
Clinton derangement syndrome.
If a center-right Democrat turns you back into a Republican who wants to burn the country down to the ground in order to save it, be honest with yourself.
You were never a liberal anything.
I saw this coming about 6-8 months ago as your tone started to initially degenerate. I think it was some comment about the Indians and Pakistanis taking American jobs via the H1-B process that clued me in to the extent of your bitterness. It’s too bad but rather predictable.
Thanks for posting this. I remember arguing against the GOP and W in various forum in 1999 and 2000. Then against the war, which was going to obviously be a disaster.
Sander’s supports (speaking for myself) not just approve of the message and policies he is advocating but think he will be a stronger candidate in the general vs. Trump. HRC has so much baggage that some of her natural supporters shun her candidacy. Pierce had a post that some Democratic politicians in Congress were saying they could work with Trump. Would they be saying that if it didn’t look bad for Hillary in their state and perhaps the General?
And unless she can bridge a gap to the Sander’s supporters, she may not get the chance to bring in those young voters or implement those 10 point policies she talks about. And they are out there. I don’t know anyone under 30 who is a Clinton supporter. High School and College voters are all going to Sanders, not Hillary or Trump. they are the future and to dismiss them is the hollow out your own future.
About chair throwing….who cares. Politics ain’t softball. Its about spreading limited resources to your supporters or your constituents. Sander’s question, do they go to the top 1% or the rest of us? That has appeal and in the current environment some desperation. And don’t forget the progressive heroes of the past had to endure a lot more than shouting or a punch thrown. Obviously some think it is a goal worth fighting for, especially when they (and I to and extent) think their party has abandoned that goal.
The most amusing thing about this all is the HRC supporters simultaneously insisting that if Sanders was to make it to the general election, socialism attacks would cause his numbers to tank… yet not only are HRC’s numbers going to magically improve, but the attacks the GOP is crafting won’t work on her.
I still believe that, campaigning and the Trump factor aside, 2016 will eventually just regress to demographics unless HRC’s a bigger fuck-up than I thought.
However, those polls you see right now? This, liberals, is what elections will look like for the next 4-12 years if you don’t have the youth onboard. You better stop crowing about how demographics will enable you to win with a suboptimal strategy and candidate get your shit together.
How’s that for your daily reminder of ‘you can’t sustain a multiracial coalition with the youth’?
Political Parties can wither if they don’t adapt and change with the times. They become ossified. It may have made sense to follow Clinton policies in the 90’s but circumstances are different now . The “youth” know this. Their concerns aren’t the Clinton’s Campaign or the DNC. And they recognize that. When Granny Hillary tells them they are naive, she is just echoing what her parents told her political generation. In a few years those same naive people were pushing the national agenda. Same is going to happen today and its better to be on the train than be left on the platform.
R
Here’s an explanation about that chair throwing. The title, “Faux Fracas in Nevada: How a Reporter Manufactured a Riot” says all.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/18/the-faux-fracas-in-nevada-how-a-reporters-pack-of-lies-ran-ri
ot-in-the-fact-averse-media/
Hey!, they could of gone full bore Logan County and beat the ever living crap out of them with brass khuckles. The reporters would have had something to report.
BTW- You seem to have some expereience with KY. for reference, Harlan Co and Logan Co are very similar in population, histroy, culture and industry. Throw in Pike County and Mingo County and you could have your own crazy hillbilly state. Same families, just seperated by a few miles and a border.
R
Speaking of KY, this is so interesting, and significant:
http://www.thenation.com/article/the-most-reliably-democratic-county-in-america-just-hillary-clinton
-a-signal/
Those FDR Democrats in eastern KY were finally given a choice between the real deal and the fake deal. They didn’t have any problem distinguishing the difference since the election results in that county were so lopsized for Bernie. They might not know all the tidbits of neoliberalism, but they know they don’t want anymore of that stuff to swallow.
Back in the late 60’s Early 70’s I went into miner’s homes and there would be 3 photos. John L Lewis, JFK and FDR. Many of the “modern” conveniences we all expect like electricity, telephone, water, sewage, hardtop roads, food for etc… are a direct result of FDR policies, carried on by LBJ. And there are still water projects to be done in Appalachia. However, the people in that area, as well as the Midwest, etc… KNOW their lives are better because of govt. That “free Enterprise” would never stretch wires out to remote hollows or isolated farms. Run water lines for miles and miles for a small community. If you have doubt, look to the 3rd world. Because much of America in the 1930s looked like the 3rd world and would have stayed that way without the New Deal.
To pretend that need is gone and the Dem Party should concentrate on “salaried” concerns is so blind sighted as to be laughable. No wonder HRC couldn’t win in Eastern KY. They know.
R
I did not know about this until now, but there are very serious fraud issues in the KY vote.
http://www.inquisitr.com/3107235/card-reader-issues-in-kentucky-push-hillary-clinton-ahead-of-bernie
-sanders-pike-county-votes-erased/
Interesting but not surprising. The whole area has a tradition of machine politics and doing what has to be done. Jack Kennedy met with the sheriffs and machine leaders in Logan, WV at the Aracoma Hotel with a sack full of money and promises of gambling debt forgiveness from his “friends” in Atlantic City and Vegas just so son John could say he won in WV. Across the river from Pike Co. KY, is Mingo Co, WV, where the Feds cleared out the courthouse after the Sheriff was killed in his cruiser.
HRC NEEDED a win and KY seemed her best bet. Once the Eastern Counties precincts began to report in, deals may have been struck. Certainly the clerks’ offices would not have done this on their own. Problem is, its not like it was in the ’50s and 60s. Too much media, too many people watching, too many outlets.
R
I’m old enough to remember going to relatives’ houses that still had outdoor potties. I’ve got a photo to prove it too. People have no idea unless they’ve experienced such “inconveniences.” Surely, it won’t get that bad again.
This WAS totally predicable.
I was just waiting to see if social media might make it more difficult to pull off than in the old COINTEL-manufactured-riot days.
We had already seen it in BLM gatherings.
I basically agree with this post, and can recall this time eight years ago:
This was written by John Harwood in the New York Times exactly eight years and two weeks ago.
It’s also worth visiting this article, where Gawker gets in touch with those idiots who left angry voice messages for Rebecca Lange. Do you think they’re representative of Sanders supporters? I don’t.
Sign.
Word.
Amen.
Thanks. Wish you still posted at big orange. The insanity there is very troubling.
It has been insane there for a long time, most likely by design. My advice: don’t go there.
Except it seems like it is all about Sanders to Sanders at this point.
Indeed. I was a life-long Democrat, despite being raised in totally (other than me) Republican family, most of whom are now out on the nutbar fringe of Tea Party whatever (some are Trump supporters, some aren’t).
I have done a lot of work for/with the D party but grew increasingly disenchanted to the point where I quit the party after Clinton’s first Admin and voted for Nader during his second run. I did vote for Gore, while holding my nose, in 2000 and was once again beyond disgust with how the D party responded (or didn’t) to the bloodless Coup effected by the US Supreme Court (under the aegis of the Bush Crime Syndicate).
As one can tell, I’m a lefty radical. Pretty done with both parties. They’re all and only about syphoning off as much money from what’s left of the middle and working classes to the .001%. Sure the R Team also wants to stick it to women, minorities, Muslims, etc. But, again, what’s the D party doing about it? Not much.
We sit around and watch known Criminals like my “representative” Daryll Issa and his progenitor Trey Gowdy waste something like $7million of our tax dollars on what they now ADMIT was a waste of time “investigating” Benghazi.
I’m so frickin sick and tired of this sh*t show. The only thing the Ds have going for them is some lethargic “support” for LGBT issues, some very very lethargic “support” for women’s & minorities’ issues, but it’s not nearly enough.
I’m very disappointed, but utterly unsurprised, at the incessant whining and name-calling that’s ensured vis Sanders’ supporters… not to mention the very overt and obvious voter suppression tactics in the D party primaries and caucuses. But right on target the Clintonistas are front and center yelling at “BernieBros” and telling them to STFU and get out of the way and so forth.
Yeah, US “Democracy” at its finest with the Goldman Sachs funded Clintons adjuring us proles to eat our peas and STFU. Hillary’s kinda sorta pretending that she “has your backs” in an incrementalish sorta way.
But, using the time-tested rightwing Hate Radio/Fox theatrics, we hapless D voters are resoundingly adjured with ye olde tried & true BOOGA BOOGA SCARY SCARY FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR, did I say: FEAR!!!1111!! the Donald.
Yeah, yeah. The R Team ain’t happy about Trump honing in on their sweet sweet GRIFT, but they’re all falling in line as we knew they would.
And here’s the stats that show that Sanders stands a better chance at defeating fascist sexist homophobic racist bigoted nutbar serial adulterer bankrupt Reality TV “star” Trump.
But hey, folks, it’s all about the good of our “country” and “democracy” for us to vote for Clinton — right? RIGHT? RIGHT!!!111!!!
F*ck that sh*t. People love to diss the R Team for it being all about Party over Country.
Sh***t. And whadda we have going on here??
Tell me how Clinton is gonna be So. Much. Better. For. Us. Rubes.
Yeah right. But if I don’t pull the lever for Clinton, then I’m the dastardly villain of the piece.
Well we all know what happened to Cassandra.
Have a nice day.
Who gets named to the Supreme Court. What happens with Voter ID. Who has their finger on the button. Who deals with our allies and our enemies. Who insures the Iran deal stays operative. What happens to gay/minority rights. Who pays taxes, and how much.
If these things don’t matter to you when compared to your precious snowflake beliefs, then I don’t know anyone who can help you.
The Supreme Court alone is enough to demand you vote Democratic.
Your vote isn’t about you. It’s about the kind of country everyone lives in. Grow up.
Thanks for calling me a precious snowflake and telling me to grow up.
This is what I mean about name calling. You have some reasonable points to make, but you blow it by behaving in a way that is unmerited. I stated my case. You’re entitled to your opinion.
It does not make you look “better” or make your case stronger by gratuitously calling someone a name.
Have a nice day.
Low rating for name calling. We don’t need that here. There are plenty of websites you can go to if you feel the need to call people names without penalty.
Saying someone has “precious snowflake beliefs” isn’t name calling.
OK, then. Low rating for disparaging, childish remarks.
Tnanks–I’m glad to see someone gets it. I’ve been voting Democratic since 1968, and I watched with increasing dismay as the party keeps lurching further and further to the right. I think many of us feel that this is our last chance to get the party back on track–otherwise the two party system will be so broken that I’m not sure what will fix it. I like Obama, but in many ways he’s been something of a disappointment, since the trajectories of a number of areas–climate, economic inequality, the never-ending mid-east crisis–haven’t really changed–he’s just temporarily slowed the rate of descent. HRC promises more of the same, except with more tolerance of Saudi and Israeli government misbehavior and–lord save us–a more aggressive stance against Iran. No thanks. In some major areas–climate in particular–we no longer have the luxury of pretending that incrementalism will get us anywhere. So you’re right–a number of us see this as our last chance before we head for the hills.
Thanks–I’m glad to see someone gets it. I’ve been voting Democratic since 1968, and I watched with increasing dismay as the party keeps lurching further and further to the right. I think many of us feel that this is our last chance to get the party back on track–otherwise the two party system will be so broken that I’m not sure what will fix it. I like Obama, but in many ways he’s been something of a disappointment, since the trajectories of a number of areas–climate, economic inequality, the never-ending mid-east crisis–haven’t really changed–he’s just temporarily slowed the rate of descent. HRC promises more of the same, except with more tolerance of Saudi and Israeli government misbehavior and–lord save us–a more aggressive stance against Iran. No thanks. In some major areas–climate in particular–we no longer have the luxury of pretending that incrementalism will get us anywhere. So you’re right–a number of us see this as our last chance before we head for the hills.
whoops, sorry, didn’t mean to re-post this–was just trying to correct a spelling.
Thanks, Booman. I needed this.
I have been very active in my local Democratic Party. Haven’t held any offices or taken on any major responsibilities, but I do step up for events, fund raising, etc. Guess you’d say I’m in the second tier of activists. Our local Democrats are pretty liberal, but not liberal enough for some who are unaffiliated or registered Green. We have a strong peace-oriented contingent. The environment, wealth disparity and social justice are also important issues.
Our county went 65% for Bernie. However, the local party is, of course, part of the state and national Democratic Party, and that’s where we part company. The super delegates began openly campaigning for Hillary 6 months or more before our caucuses. What better way to tell us our opinions don’t matter?
I’m one of those who believe the party left me. Obama has my support on a number of things (Iran agreement, Cuba, same sex marriage, etc.) but has deeply disappointed me with our continued droning and bombing in the Middle East, coziness with Wall St. and a hands off AG on economic matters, disaster in educational policy, and so on.
The Clintons are too hawkish, have used their positions to enrich themselves personally, are beholden to big money, have questionable ethics, do not understand the distress in this country over the decline of the middle class, loss of high paying jobs, overwhelming college costs that are an albatross around 1-2 generations of graduates, unending war and another generation of wounded, alienated and insufficiently served vets, etc.
I’m well beyond being classified as a senior, and this is the most troubling election I’ve ever faced. Rock and a hard place. Sophie’s choice.
Yeah, Trump or Clinton?
That’s a toughie.
There are other choices.
Yes, there are other choices, but the reality is that many of those choices are not available in all 50 states, are not on a level playing field in terms of having access to publicity, to the national debates, and so forth. I don’t like that those are the facts on the ground, and really would like for things to be different. I’ve probably argued and advocated for changing that sorry state of affairs, for all the good a singular blogger can do (which turns out to be not much).
Instead, we get a choice between a candidate who has no tangible qualifications other than the ability to appeal to white nationalists and other angry white males who really should know better but apparently don’t know or don’t care (Trump) and a competent technocrat whose term would essentially amount to an Obama third term more or less, albeit probably a bit more hawkish militarily (Clinton). I’m actually tactically voting for Clinton, which I am sure will come as a bit of a shocker for some who’ve known me a while. It comes down less to enthusiasm for Clinton than it does that Trump’s behavior and that of his followers is unsettling (to put it mildly – I and my family, thanks to facets of our demographics would be in the crosshairs of Trumps nationalist goon squads), and good reason to believe that a Trump presidency would be an unmitigated disaster not only nationally, but globally. I’m not exactly in a “burn it all down” mood, I suppose.
Ditto. I will tepidly vote for Clinton in November because I understand the difference between a smack upside the head and being fed into a wood chipper.
There are all sorts of choices.
Mickey Mouse. Right Said Fred. The Big Bopper. Table top tennis. Flip flops.
Unfortunately, there are only two choices for President here in observable reality.
Yes;
Bad
and
Horrible
Make sure to stay home on election day I guess.
There is more on the ballot than those two sycophants, and beside Horrible is polling double digits in front of Bad in my state, so my vote won’t change anything.
Same here. Is there an increasing tendency for solid Red State Dems to look at the choices the DNC serves up and just say “meh”?
I actually want Sanders to stay in, I think his voice is important and the more liberals/progressives/leftists in the Democratic Party will continue to move the party and the hopefully the country left. When we all leave the party is when it moves right, the work is within the party not outside of it to get the most power and the best chance to get the change we all want.
I would just like to see more reality pumped into the nomination contests. The primaries weren’t rigged, the DNC isn’t evil (maybe a little clumsy or atrophied since President Obama never really utilized it) & Super Delegates aren’t the devil. I know I’m exaggerating these positions (although I have seen each of them at one point).
Sanders lost this nomination back in March now he just needs to gain as much power as he can for the convention and help unite the party not just for this fall but also for elections to come.
Glad to see some are understanding that the real power is the message itself not the deliverer of that message. The Democratic Party elites have a major problem. They have lost their way and strayed far right from FDR. They have allowed social policies that were strong to be weakened. This election is for the soul of the Progressive Democratic Party members. The party needs to reform itself back hard left or lose yet again another election.
The GOP does not win these elections the Democratic Party hands it over to them by not listening to their base supporters and possible new supporters. If there are those that like the policies pushed by the GOP. Then go join the GOP that is why there are two parties with very different goals.
The Democratic Party has a change to make major gains in all areas of elections. All they have to do is support true Democratic policies like those of FDR. If the elites ignore then they will yet again hand a major win to the GOP. The party will be for years to come a minor power.
uh huh
uh huh
Trump Unveils List of His Top Supreme Court Picks
By JILL COLVIN, ASSOCIATED PRESS JERSEY CITY, N.J. — May 18, 2016, 2:37 PM ET
Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee for president, has released a list of 11 potential Supreme Court justices he plans to vet to fill the seat of late Justice Antonin Scalia if he’s elected to the White House.
Trump’s picks include Steven Colloton of Iowa, Allison Eid of Colorado and Raymond Gruender of Missouri.
Also on the list are: Thomas Hardiman of Pennsylvania, Raymond Kethledge of Michigan, Joan Larsen of Michigan, Thomas Lee of Utah, William Pryor of Alabama, David Stras of Minnesota, Diane Sykes of Wisconsin and Don Willett of Texas. Trump had previously named Pryor and Sykes as examples of kind of justices he would choose.
Cool. I guess that means it’s time to scurry around the Intertubes finding out everything known about these people and then post it here.
What I am saying is that what began for a lot of people as a vehicle for change within the party became somewhat of a victim of its own surprising successes. Sanders has won primaries in 20 states, and won about 45% of the pledged delegates to the convention, and so he’s now seen as a serious candidate by a lot of people who have grown so committed that they’re fighting as hard as they can against impossible odds to get him elected.
Except–and one can read this here regularly–the most vocal Sanders supporters don’t actually give a rat’s ass about the Democratic Party, but only about the issues that Sanders is raising.
I care about the Democratic Party as a vehicle to implement policies I support. Issues come first for me. My loyalty isn’t blind.
It is apparent that neither major party is representing the issues that many in this country want addressed. The two parties put together barely equal 50% of registered voters, and in some polls not even that.
If the Democratic Party is not getting votes in red state geographies:
Focus groups will not tell you which voters and what issues will move Democratic votes. Finding out in 80% Republican counties why someone still votes Democrat might. But it will take a long and honest conversation about a whole range of politics. And a commitment of the Democratic Party to protect those people from retaliation; yes, it has come to that.
And I doubt if the number in that county will be moved by moving to the “center”. There are mixtures of ideas, issues, and organization wrinkles that cause shifting of votes within a county. The establishment has a vested interest in making you think that PVI is destiny. It makes it easier to avoid challengers and get opposition to what it wants to do to the ordinary people, like end Social Security and Medicare or make money from the next war, or subvert another nation to allow corporations to get cheap labor.
The voters might not know about those things that don’t affect them, but they know what their own situation is. Being “business-friendly” is not likely a high priority.
I think voter mostly vote as their cohorts do. For 80% of the population, it seems to me, it’s about asking “who are you going to vote for.” Then follow along.
The worst PVI county in the 2012 election — Cimmaron OK — the Panhandle.
Romney 90.4% 1,082 votes
Obama 9.6% 115 votes
I would want to talk to those 115 people and not make assumptions about what 80% of the people do that allows party strategists to write off increasing parts of the country as unwinnable and still get paid their big buck salaries.
It is easy to get demoralized by percentages. That’s why campaigns love to put them out.
Wow. That is impressive. Indeed, I would be curious.
Right on target, BooMan.
It is easy to take stuff at face value and forget that we are on the audience end of two campaign strategies, both of which have their own forms of message discipline and organizational involvement strategies. A lot of the conflict on both sides represents the button-pushing parts of that strategy. The Sanders campaign has been pretty transparent because it has been mostly aimed at drawing supporters from the public and only using policy fights from the 1990s through now to persuade Clinton voters to switch. I’m not sure there is a tactic from the Sanders camp that seeks to depress Clinton voters from voting at all.
The Clinton camp has certainly started with the strategy of depressing the vote because Clinton is the only one electable–which her critics now characterize as Ms. Inevitability and the New York Post exploited with its Miss Universe front page. There was a definite strategy to discourage primary challengers from the beginning. And there was the institutional use of the DNC, state party organizations, and local party committees as institutions to corral votes for Clinton. Some of that merely represented activating a previous organization of supporters. But some Democratic officials went the extra step of seeing what procedural obstacles they could put in the way of challengers. In other words, business as usual politics. Of course, reformers will bristle at these games; that is the proximate reason the donkey is near death–the establishment sitting on its hands when reformer (not even progressives) do run. Consider the loss of the Massachusetts US Senate and the loss of the Massachusetts governorship because of Coakley. The scuttlebutt was that the Boston city machine sat on its hands both times because of Coakley’s reformist tack in office. The conventional wisdom was that Coakley was defective as a candidate.
Or take the case of dKos fave, Joe Sestak. He knocked out Arlen Specter and incurred the wrath of Ed Rendell, who had the part of the establishment he controlled sit on its hands. The conventional wisdom is that Sestak is defective as a candidate.
One begins to wonder where else the establishment, fearful of progressive directions, sandbagged progressive candidates, even progressive incumbents. What exactly were Rahm Emanuel and Tim Kaine up to when they were engineering the 2010 mid-term defeat and the 2012 ho-hum? A retrospective is in order to determine whether Republicans were preferable to strong progressives in some constituencies.
So the Clinton campaign, once Sanders is in, adopts the messaging strategy of “you have nowhere to go but Clinton when Sanders is defeated in the primary” and tilts to the right in debates. At the same time, firing up the old organization means that the organizational entities that deliver votes from people of color go through their routine start-up for an election and gear up to do the same-old-same-old. The old guard activists are thus already committed to Clinton when the Sanders campaign cranks up. Sanders cannot recruit them except in places. But he can recruit younger activists who see their elders as having not delivered the goods in a decade. Clinton’s messaging has to depress the ability of those younger activists persuading the older ones to shift to Sanders. That creates a whole raft of attacks on Sanders from the “Bernie bros” meme to “Sanders is a racist”, “Sanders was not in the civil rights movement”, and a deliberate misstatement of Sanders’s strategy in running on a 99%-1% demographic that includes white working people. (As it turns out, more of the salaried people that Obama just gave a raise for their overtime.)
The Sanders campaign counters by reminding voters of some of the inconvenient truths of the Bill Clinton presidency. Which caused Clinton herself, according to media reports, (pinch of salt) to become very irritated at the tone of the campaign.
Meanwhile the national media ignored the Sanders campaign until they had to cover him and went nuts on Trump. Slim chance of building name recognition for Sanders there.
At the point at which Clinton had a majority of delegate votes (if you count superdelegates) the Clinton campaign started to press Sanders to clear the field. Sanders rightly refused for the same reason that Obama did in 2008–the assumption that the superdelegates must follow a massive mandate of the pledged delegates. What was different is that Clinton now had the African-American vote as part of her base; that is the margin that move to Clinton, changing the outcome of the primaries. As Sanders’s appeal to the millennials incresed in effectiveness and brought a significant diversity to his campaign, the margins tightened. In addition, Sanders learned well from Obama about covering off all three means of selecting delegates — primary elections, caucuses, and conventions — in the states the complicate the process by doing more than one of these.
Trump gained momentum; Clinton could not clear the field; surrogates and supporters became more shrill; the Sanders campaign complained publicly about some needless procedural impediments that advantaged Clinton’s campaign. And Republican Arizona screwed up the primary balloting through the usual tactic of misallocating voting equipment. And some Sanders supporters saw the hand of the Clinton campaign. A similar process occurred in other hard-fought states, especially NY. Social media types claiming to be Sanders supporters started the “stolen elections” meme. In all case, state officials promised an investigation and the DOJ is looking at some of the states. Clinton supporters bristled at the “stolen elections” meme and argued the Sanders supporters (were they really?) were going over the edge. The GOS enlisted many of its front pagers as a truth squad for the Clinton campaign.
You have to say this is the mid-game when strategy falls apart and chaos drives reactions under stress within a campaign. There is so much going on that it all is difficult to handle.
We are emerging from this into the endgame as the last primaries approach. The endgame is about negotiating party unity to face the general election. The test of the success of that endgame is whether the Clinton campaign and the Democratic establishment hear finally the progressive analysis of why Democrats have been losing elections cycle after cycle. Whether establishment Democrats hear what the highly paid political consultants and hangers-on nor the lobbyist superdelegates (cough, Barney Frank) will never tell them–the ordinary people of this country are hurting and that is why they are angry as hell this year.
Yes, 12 years later from “more and better Democrats” and the “Democratic wing of the Democratic party” and some of us would like to have the face time with our members of Congress that major out-of-state donors do.
This comment should be cut and pasted on the FP of dkos.
This particularly:
“Trump gained momentum; Clinton could not clear the field; surrogates and supporters became more shrill; the Sanders campaign complained publicly about some needless procedural impediments that advantaged Clinton’s campaign.”
Post Florida 2000, any sign of an unfair process blows up on social media. I am not sure I realized the extent of it – but a significant portion of Sanders supporters believe that the nomination is being stolen (which is not true – though I would argue a fair process in Iowa would have resulted in a Sanders win).
Here is the problem – how do you make peace with people who you believe are stealing the election?
If you look at the cross tabs of some of the state polling, you see significant portion of those under 30 considering a third party.
In NH 12% of those 18-29 said they were voting for a third party, EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE NOT OFFERED THAT as a choice.
I think those votes come home, and it’s why I think Clinton wins by more than 10. But I may be underestimating the difficulty among the young this nomination fight has created.
The issue at stake is whether the left is going to have institutional power within the Democratic Party. Over what and to what extent, given the proportion of Sanders’s primary totals. The more real power there, the wider the net of support for a Democratic unity ticket in November.
There is similar issue at stake for switching Republicans.
The dealbreaker for a big tent is the switching Republicans holding the establishment Democrats (who already trend that way) to a policy of “no lefties”. Amputating the American left wing again will have the same catastrophic consequences it did 72 years ago — economically, ecologically, and in foreign policy.
why wouldn’t “moderate” Republicans who come over be more likely to be encased in the Democratic party platform than the other way around?
I know there’s a risk but there’s also the possibility that they will either embrace our platform or maybe they just vote for us for a cycle or 2.
It won’t be what the moderate Republicans do, it will be what the Democratic leadership does in anticipation of luring moderate Republicans (an oxymoron with the current Republican Party; William Scranton and George Romney are a long time ago.)
Let me suggest the real question is whether 30 something ambitious pols think the route to power requires support from the Sanders people.
If they do, an earthquake will happen completely independently from whatever negotiations happen.
Does Grayson (who is such a terrible candidate) beat Murphy (who is just as bad)?
You write:
Yes, indeed.
Here’s how this is going to work, Tarheel.
If Clinton wins the election, the “left” will control little or no institutional power within the Democratic Party.
If Trump wins, that same “left” is all that will remain of the Democratic Party.
Hmmmm…
Win to lose or lose to win?
Hmmmmmmm…
HMMMMMmmmm…
AG
“The issue at stake is whether the left is going to have institutional power within the Democratic Party.”
Right. So — two points:
(1) “Bernie Sanders will go to Philadelphia with more pledged delegates than any insurgent in modern history.”
http://www.thenation.com/article/bernies-philadelphia-challenge/
(2) Clinton acolytes like Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Rahm Emanuel are the true face of today’s Democratic establishment.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/why_its_time_for_these_two_democrats_to_go_20160323
Philadelphia should be lots of fun.
So is this post by Seth Abramson another flavor of what you are saying?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/this-is-the-one-way-in-wh_b_10026870.html
It’s a lot more focused on Sanders the man than the movement. Maybe at least additional grounds for the DNC to make a lot of concessions so we all can be successful in the general?
LOL The term is gaslighting. Interesting.
This is a really, really good post, Booman.
Thanks!
My own view is that the political media – bloggers etc. – along with social media are destroying the consensus in the democratic party. I don’t like Clinton’s foreign policy but write that in a comment in certain places and it’s like you have committed heresy. Comment sections are always rough places, but this got nasty. I was never a strong supporter of Sanders because I thought he was too old, but I wanted him to make the argument. To see this play out in comments, tweets, and other social media though led me to despise the Clinton supporters online. It’s hard to set that aside now. Neither Clinton nor Sanders had anything to do with it. I’ll vote for Clinton, but if she loses to Trump, I will enjoy the howls of despair from her online supporters.
The Blue Dog Collapse:
Burgess Everett and Seung Min Kim, Politico: Centrist Democrats: We can work with President Trump
Photo is of Sen. Heidi Heitkamp. Mentions Jon Tester and Joe Manchin.
McCaskill does note Trump’s inconstancy.
Tim Kaine and Ben Cardin duck the question.
Manchin is ready for Hillary but also ready for Trump. That’s the blowback from Sanders’s win of West Virginia. Mugwumpery.
They will be the ones providing bipartisanship on TTIP/TTP and other atrocities, you betcha!
The Clinton inner circle are spending more time plotting their revenge than considering anything more than tacit and empty reconciliation. The Clintons were never very good at sharing power, especially not the entitled power of a twice-deferred presidency. Quicquid capit is the motto and ethos of their tenure and having a happy relationship with a recalcitrant faction not on board with the neoliberal power and wealth-hugging agenda is not on their ‘to-do’ list.
Ok, Booman. This is for you. Now that I have left the Democratic Party, I see right in this thread that I was never wanted anyway, my question is; “Do you want to take down my log in?” It’s your blog. It’s your right.
It seems to me that you only had half a doz3en sanders supporters anyway.
I think the majority if not the vast majority on this site are Sanders supporters
I would agree with that wholeheartedly.
This is what happens to you when participating in social media debates. It is corrosive. You realize that if people don’t see it your way, that they hate you. They call you names. And then you end up hating them right back.
Good. I am the progressive described here by BooMan. I’ve been at this salvaging the Democratic Party against the Reagan revolution since Carter. Seen every verkochte mistake the Democratic establishment made as it veered recklessly away from Democratic fundamentals laid down from Roosevelt through Johnson, and watched it wither and basically die in terms of its ability to provide for its core constituencies, under-represented, under-served, largely powerless Americans of all stripes and colors. Carter was bad enough. Clinton I made it much, much worse and betrayed those of us that worked to elect, and re-elect him. Obama, thankfully, has taken at least baby steps back in the right direction, but my life, our lives, our memories of the Democratic Party, its roots and ideals, are soon to fade away for good. Sanders represents that.
Funny though to hear Martin say that Sanders has “charisma.” Flattering to him, but I, like most of us die-hard Sanders supporters I expect, were attracted to him and grew to like him more in fact, because his campaign seemed not to be about his personality at all, but rather about Democratic fundamentals. Re-establishing the baseline. That’s where we started. That’s where Sanders has always been and is now. That’s remains the goal. That’s all. Winning would have been the ideal outcome, but most of us were as surprised as Sanders himself seemed to be, the more he won (and continues to win). It’s stunning really. That’s enough.
In re: Clinton II. Remains as difficult now as ever to see how she could win my vote. The Democratic Party the Clintons stole, and now own, wrote us off a long, long time ago. She remains short-sighted, and narrow-minded and antithetical in most respects to Democratic fundamentals and seems indifferent, and so incapable, of changing. So far afield from what the Democratic Party means to me, has always meant to me, that I don’t see how she can possibly change course.
I agree, even about Obama.
And that’s why the oft-heard complaint that “Sanders isn’t a real Democrat” is so ironic. He is the realest Democrat around . . . far too much so for today’s DNC types.
By the way, “verkochte” is excellent German for “overcooked”, but I suspect the word you really want is Yiddish, “farkakte”, which literally means “beshitted”, but in more idiomatic English, “fucked up”.
Thanks on the “farkakte” Yiddish explanation. I remembered the word (and what it was supposed to mean: ‘fucked up’) but not the spelling, so tried to look it up but wasn’t sure which reference I found was right, so just went with the German spelling. And so true about the Democratic Party now, they’re so far away from what it used to be it seems like no one running it now even remembers. Nusuth. It’s just a political party.
It’s like a bunch of us were saying the other day, Hillary Clinton is a fine choice to be leading this so-called Democratic Party, because the Clintons have always been allied to the Bush family, and what used to be called the Rockefeller or moderate Republicans, in other words the internationalist Republicans.
http://www.boomantribune.com/comments/2016/5/17/131711/423/110#110
And so this makes perfect sense:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/07/hillary-clinton-to-form-republicans-for-hillary-group-to-
exploit/
How Democrats could have chosen a Park Ridge Republican to be their visionary and standard-bearer is beyond me. I fear this nomination will be as big a disaster for Democrats as George W Bush proved to be for Republicans.
Too soon to matter and it’s a Fox poll, but showing Trump up 3 on Clinton today is not encouraging for her (or what remains of the Democratic Party).
My sense of the current moment is that the Clinton communications operation is going to get increasingly unhinged and personal the closer we get to the California primary (the Big One). And they are going to be determined to delegitimize Sanders as a Democrat to free them to embrace anti-Trump establishment Republicans.
If you think things are passionate, emotional, and tense now, wait for the week after the California primary. If Clinton indeed does have it in the bag, it is up to her campaign to open as a gracious winner. At the moment, the Clinton camp appears to prefer to destroy the Democratic Party rather than open it to other than co-opted progressives. I don’t think that Sanders’s supporters are going to go down that road yet another time.
Sanders is going to keep making his case that the entire establishment is not qualified to run the country because of the experience of the past 36 years (40 if you want to gig Carter again). That will be received by Clinton supporters and often delivered by Sanders supporters as a personal attack on the Clintons.
It is going to get nastier. Fasten your seat belt. The endgame is going to involve massive political turbulence like we’ve not seen for 48 years. Who controls the cops will determine how it turns out.
It is either negotiation or brute force. I fear that the establishment (and not just in the political parties) has circled the wagons to defend their control of their privilege.
I must be watching something completely different, then, because I expect things to be reasonably civil (as civil as the end of campaigns get). It seems that some people are itching for a larger conflict, but I don’t see why that would be the case. Again, I really don’t see 2008 levels of drama here (though on the blogs, of course, it’s always a five-alarm fire).
So:
1968 a party blew apart
1976 a party had an ideological fight of the first order that went to the convention. But they mostly put the party back together.
It is an interesting time for Bernie – who could be seen as the savior of the Democratic Party – and the irony in that is really amazing.
I wonder how many party activists there are among the Clinton supporters, included elected officials, who actually agree with Sanders but support Clinton for what they consider strategic reasons.
Any such people might play an important role at the convention.
But I also know that DWS has stacked the committees with seriously anti-Sanders people like Barney Frank.
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/03/establishment-politician-barney-frank-shockingly-d.ht
ml
Sorry, here’s that URL again:
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/03/establishment-politician-barney-frank-shockingly-d.ht
ml
Great post, as usual. I would add that the country is very different now from 2008. Regardless of a person’s opinion on the delivery, the country voted twice for a President who gave them something to vote for in the campaign. The widespread desire for Hope and Change&trade didn’t go away.
Unfairly or not, Clinton will always be tied to the establishment because of her long tenure in politics as a policy-active First Lady, Senator, and Secretary of State. Trump, while he is a bigoted lunatic with a finger in the wind to determine his true policy positions, is an alternative to the establishment for those barely tuning in.
The victor in the general election will be the campaign that successfully makes the argument that they will disrupt the status-quo. The Clinton camp should be listening very carefully to the grievances being expressed at the end of this primary from Sanders and supporters or today’s Fox News Poll (I know, I know) will no longer be an outlier.
thanks a lot BooMan, for being a lonely voice of reason among Dem bloggers.
“…have been Bernie Sanders supporters from the beginning of this campaign.”
I’m one of those educated people who saw this from the beginning, from the moment he announced his candidacy for President, I knew this was going to be something quite different. As I researched who he was, his writing, his political activities and his speeches going back some thirty years, I found the same things he had just said in that candidacy announcement. He was the real deal, articulating issues we all believed in; issues that had rarely been expressed by any other politician in my lifetime. I had all but accepted that my political hopes had ended with an assassin’s bullet in Dallas so many years ago. I attended one of Bernie’s early rallies in Denver, CO. The enthusiasm and energy expressed was overwhelming. People were attending who do not attend rallies, people giving money who don’t give money and people volunteering who don’t volunteer.
The most remarkable thing Bernie said that first day was that this campaign was not about him. This campaign is about a political revolution that transforms our country with one the lowest voter turnout records to one with the highest voter turnout in the world. The culprit for this low turnout was both political parties had turned their back on the people aligning themselves with the oligarchs. This was the direct result of both parties embracing neoliberalism at the expense of the people. We were ripe for a populist upheaval that would cut across party lines.
I get it that you heard Bernie’s message as some sort of pretend political exercise to get some delegates to the convention so the things Bernie was saying would be heard by the Democratic Establishment. Real power such as winning was off the table since the Hillary decision was already set in stone. What you missed was that almost everything Bernie said was an attack on neoliberalism, the founding principle of Bill Clinton’s DLC. You concentrated on the breakup of the Republican Party while missing the Democratic Party was breaking up in front of your very eyes.
The problem was that if Bernie’s goals are to be implemented, neoliberalism has to go, along with the Democratic Party power structure far too comfortable using it as a cash cow. This meant that Bernie was not just some interjection of ideas the Democratic Party desperately needed to energize the young people but a direct challenge to the Democratic Establishment. As this resonated beyond anyone’s wildest expectations, the Democratic Establishment had to crush it using every means at their disposal. Those means became yet another problem because it laid bare the Democratic Party’s ugly face of political corruption; the great unmasking of much of the progressive Establishment as being something less than progressive.
At a rally in California, Bernie said to the leadership of the Democratic Party:
“Open the doors; let the people in,” Sanders said, after supporters booed the mention of the Democratic Party. He added that “before we will have the opportunity to defeat Donald Trump we’re going to have to defeat Secretary Clinton.”
I think you’re wrong to think this struggle is about personalities, it never was. Bernie made a valuable contribution to teach us who the enemy really was. The enemy is neoliberalism and the people who support it. If we want to defeat neoliberalism we’re going to have to defeat Secretary Clinton. That is true before the primary or after the Establishment Super Delegates drags her across the nomination finish line.
Thanks — great comment.
At the end of this race Clinton will likely have a higher raw vote total of the popular vote, higher numbers of pledged delegates, and higher numbers of super-delegates. This is the same system that Obama successfully navigated to defeat Clinton.
This is a competition and Bernie, unfortunately, has failed to defeat his opponent. There’s not much else to it.
I hope Bernie has an end-game or he’s going to get nothing out this endeavor for his supporters. It’s big picture time.
It’s not about Sanders. It’s about the Democratic Party. I never thought I’d leave it, but I’m beginning to feel that way.
I despise the modern Democratic party. I hope it dies but I’d prefer to bury the Republican party first. You’d have to be blind and a fool not to see that the Democratic party is getting pushed, albeit reluctantly, to the left on quite a few issues. It’s certainly moving to the left quickly on social issues and people like Bernie and Liz Warren have brought back some semblance of New Deal liberalism with their focus on regulatory and economic issues.
The Democratic party is wrong, most often, with its deference to the foreign policy “borg” and love for liberal interventionism in the pursuit of socially engineering foreign cultures to conform with Western societal values and forms of government. Their conceit is that they thought a change of party was all that was needed to restore competence in our foreign policy.
yes, I prefer actually getting things done to keyboard infantry, and rule 1 is don’t waste your energy on a losing battle. that’s the way I feel now, stick to where I know I can be effective. btw, great comments on this thread, guys, thanks.
At a recent Bernie rally, I was next to an elderly gentleman who was attending because he wanted to see if Bernie could persuade him. He mentioned he didn’t like Independents–thought people should not be wishy-washy about their politics. He never made a peep until Bernie mentioned the word: oligarchy. His left arm automatically went up in the air and he said this county is going for Bernie. It did: B 46.5% C 43.8% It told me a lot.