I don’t think the point of Moby Dick was that the whale brought it all on himself, and that should never be how we look back on l’affaire Lewinsky or any of the other events and fabrications that were used in the 1990’s to try to bring the Clintons to their political knees. The ending here is different, for starters. If you thought that the Republicans’ defeat in the 1998 midterms, the acquittal of the president, and the resignation of Newt Gingrich were the equivalents of Captain Ahab being lashed to the Great White Whale and dragged to the depths of the ocean, then you obviously didn’t watch last night’s debate. Because Captain Ahab lives!
In one of the earliest reviews of Herman Melville’s Moby Dick, George Ripley of Harper’s wrote that Ahab “becomes the victim of a deep, cunning monomania; believes himself predestined to take a bloody revenge on his fearful enemy; pursues him with fierce demoniac energy of purpose.” That seems like a good description of Donald Trump’s whole campaign, as he seeks vengeance for being humiliated by the president at the White House Correspondents Dinner in 2011. In a broader sense, though, it’s a description of the itch Trump was scratching last night for his base.
As Robert Costa, Dan Balz and Philip Rucker report in the Washington Post , there was a shocking scene that took place moments before the debate last night when Donald Trump, his son-in-law Jared Kushner, Rudy Giuliani, and Breitbart‘s Stephen K. Bannon hatched a plot to embarrass and discomfort President Bill Clinton on national television.
Donald Trump’s campaign sought to intimidate Hillary Clinton and embarrass her husband by seating women who have accused former president Bill Clinton of sexual abuse in the Trump family’s box at the presidential debate here Sunday night, according to four people involved in the discussions.
The campaign’s plan, which was closely held and unknown to several of Trump’s top aides, was thwarted just minutes before it could be executed when officials with the Commission on Presidential Debates intervened. The commission officials warned that, if the Trump campaign tried to seat the accusers in the elevated family box, security officers would remove the women, according to the people involved, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the discussions were confidential.
Rudy Giuliani went into some details about their plan.
The four women — three of whom have alleged that Bill Clinton sexually assaulted or harassed them years ago — were to walk in the debate hall at the same time as the 42nd president and confront him in front of a national television audience.
“We were going to put the four women in the VIP box,” said former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani, who represents Trump in debate negotiations. “We had it all set. We wanted to have them shake hands with Bill, to see if Bill would shake hands with them.”
The plan was thwarted by Frank Fahrenkopf, the Republican co-chairman of the debate commission, but that didn’t prevent Trump from making several references to them in the opening moments of the debate. It was his opportunity to throw some of the worst accusations ever made against Bill Clinton into the spotlight where it was hoped they would serve as some kind of magic harpoon that would finally make the American people see the light about the satanic possession of the Clintons. Also in Trump’s quiver were the most unhinged interpretations of Hillary’s missteps and vulnerabilities, from Benghazi! to the “missing” emails to her alleged role in silencing her husband’s accusers. To drive home the point, Trump referred to his debating partner as “the devil” and “Satan.”
It was impossible for me not to recall Ishmael’s description of Ahab’s obsession with Moby Dick:
“All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil, to crazy Ahab, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Moby-Dick. He piled upon the whale’s white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart’s shell upon it.”
In circumstances like these, speaking to and for a base that has hunted the Clintons around the seven seas of American politics for more than a quarter century now, Trump’s performance was guaranteed to excite and stimulate the limbic system of hardcore Republicans, including many who have no use for Trump as a candidate or potential president. It must have been an almost euphoric experience for them.
Except, Moby Dick was never “all evil” personified. Moby Dick was just a whale.
And on the third day of his final pursuit, Ahab finally realized “Aye, he’s chasing me now; not I, him—that’s bad.”
Trump may have now fulfilled his destiny. Perhaps it, too, was foretold in some Fedallah’s prophecy.
But his party is now as shattered as The Pequod and Trump’s presidential ambitions are presently being carried to the bottom of the sea.
“Aye, he’s chasing me now; not I, him–VERY BAD!”
Sorry, had to fix that.
Not bad, Booman, not bad.
The gold coin nailed to the mast as incentive, the Pequod avoiding interaction while Ahab uses the isolation to manipulate the crew to his mad quest.
Not bad.
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Indeed. It was all about stirring up Clinton Derangement Syndrome.
Nah, Trump is just an asshole, being an asshole. I think Trump & Co. have realized that he cannot possibly be elected. At this point, the purpose of the campaign is to rain pain and humiliation on his list of enemies … of which HRC is probably #1, 2, or 3.
I look for a spate of tweets and talks (I have trouble calling them speeches) about the mendacity of the current leadership and their minions.
Ayotte and Heck in the senate come to mind immediately. Both are in races that are very close. Both have significant numbers of Trumpers in their constituency. Time will tell, but the absence of votes from even a few thousand Trumpers from either would be devastating. Kirk and McCain will come in for their fair share of shit, but Kirk appears to be dead meat and McCain is so far ahead (16 points) that is probably doesn’t matter.
Of interest to me is the response of several R candidates who DIDN’T unendorsed. Blunt, Johnson and Burr. Johnson is probably dead man walking, but Blunt and Burr are in barfights. Without the enthusiastic support of of the Trumpers, Blunt is truly emasculated and Burr is not much better. However, both MO and NC do have a significant part of R constituency that prizes civility and respect (at least on the surface). Once again, time will tell, but with Kandar currently +2 in MO and Ross currently +0 in NC this debate and the Friday’s exposure has got to have them vomiting.
Actions against the House members are more problematic because House members are relatively insulated and anonymous. I doubt Trump could name more than 5 house members anyway.
Exciting times.
That party can’t be carried deep enough into the sea or buried long enough. 40 million idiots aren’t going anywhere just because their champion gets trounced. And Fox News and Breitbart and Stormfront & Hannity are still around.
No, the right wing has been fighting it’s zombie battle against Social Security since 1936 for example. You’d think they’d give up, but they never do. One day, they’ll win and hedge fund managers will get their hands on the S.S. trust fund. That’s the holy grail for them.
Just because America is turning against them, well America turned against them before, in the 30’s and 40’s and 50’s and that didn’t stop them. Nothing that happens now is going to stop them either. Their dream candidate, Barry Goldwater got stomped and they used that as an organizing principle. The only difference is, now there’s no large untapped restive pool of racists to mobilize, so they’re in a decline. But we will have to deal with their insanity for many more years.
Just this year my 401k came back to where it was in 2007. If I had been 65 in 2007 I would have been screwed.
Any time someone talks about privatizing social security we need to ask them “why is giving more money to Wall Street millionaires a good idea?”
401K has been an abysmal failure by any measure. How in the hell do any of these advocates for privatizing anything have any credibility left?
And was it just me or did that whole attempt fall completely flat.
“I’m gonna drop this big ol’ nukular bomb on Clinto, ol’ Bill and his Clenis” and then he did and it was like an underfilled water balloon that didn’t even pop.
Was that just me?
It wasn’t just you.
It did not help him that he’s a pretty unserious individual, and that makes his rants so easy to dismiss. He’s incapable of making sense.
‘Unserious’ does not mean he’s not dangerous.
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I recall writing on another thread about 24 hours ago that Rudy Giuliani is a worm of a man, a particularly low and servile creature. No Trump job is too low for 911 Rudee.
And here he is quoted, bragging about the plan to place a row of women in front of Bill and Hillary at the debate. I do not understand why this has such great meaning to the Basket of Deplorables. It’s as if they dream that the debate stage might turn into a scene from “And Justice For All” or something:
There is a very easily observable psychodrama on constant display in Conservativeland these days. A whole Movement of people need HELP.
And Justice for all is to highbrow for the deplorables imo. what they’re really after is closer to the jerry springer show.
low brown reality tv meets presidential politics. it’s what trump is selling.
No
General conclusions It just fell flat
Its always fascinated me that Trump has run his campaign to get revenge on and repudiate Obama.
Nope. The Donald has yet to fulfill his destiny. He is not on a sinking ship. The GOP and The Donald are on the Silver Streak. Folks have been jumping off and on the train for months. Now there is no engineer. Now the train is going too fast and….I can’t remember how the movie ends beyond the crash.
Gene Wilder’s character saves the woman he’s been trying to rescue all film long and Richard Pryor’s character steals a car. All three of them escape the crash. By the end, the passengers have been separated from the runaway engine, so they’re saved. As for the bad guys, they’re all dead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Streak_(film)
Well, the Greek Chorus of Bill’s Ladies didn’t seem too harrowing to me, but I’m not the target market, ha-ha. The question is what’s the basis for KellyAnne & Co. to think this has great resonance with anyone whose mind is not already permanently polluted by Newsmax and DailyNutJob?
Of course, presenting Bill’s accusers has some tendency to balance the image of Pussy Tape Trumper, to the extent many viewers had heard of it. But the defense that “Bill was worse than me!” doesn’t seem to demand acquittal, ha-ha. Sort of like the old Repub mantra that “Saddam was worse than us!” from the Cheney days. And as Marie predicted, it’s hard to believe his groping denial will not not require some of Trump’s Gropees to come forward, should they so desire.
Team HRC strategy simply seemed to be let Der Trumper hang himself. There was some snark from Hillary, but mostly she let him carry out his personal attacks (“the devil”, etc) without counterattack. Given the mass of reporting on Der Trumper’s financial shenanigans of the 80s and 90s, there was plenty of evidence to start calling him a Con Man of Epic Proportions directly to his face, but they clearly didn’t want her to go there.
So KellyAnne has shot her “Bill’s Bad!” bolt and it seems very unlikely to have much effect with those voters who matter. Jesus, talk about relitigating the past. So what is Der Trumper left with? He was pretty weak on the trade & jobs front last night, what with all the personal insults, and precious little of any domestic issue was covered. A few unintelligible jabs at Obamacare, and Syrian scenarios which frankly are far beyond the understanding of the ordinary low-info voter. Clinton was fairly explicit in talking about Syria.
Given what the situation now looks like, Hillary simply must start turning some attention to a direct condemnation and denunciation of the failed and useless Repub Congress, specifically indicting Ryan’s House of Nonsense. I suppose it is risky to leave the dead to bury the dead vis-a-vis the Scowling Trumper, but just beating him is hardly much of a triumph given the postulated breakup of the Pequod. If the Pequod is indeed breaking up, there should be no rescue party and no survivors….those anvils will not throw themselves, Dems…
The target audience of the Greek Chorus is very much not you. Trump’s not trying to win the election, he’s trying to win the Republican base. His plan all along has been to get a media empire and the current path couldn’t be working out better for that. He’s got fervent support from 30%+ of the population, and Republican leadership repudiating him gives him the dolchstosslegende he needs so he can blame his loss on the “traitorous Republican leadership” and not his own unfitness. That audience just ate up his nonsense denunciations of Hillary last night – those people believe all that and they just think somebody just needed to say it for the country to all agree with them. They will be hopping mad when he loses anyway, but he’s not the one they’ll blame – he’ll be the one they look to to tell them who to be mad at.
What problem I have with this analysis is it feeds the idea that what Trump does is an act. That’s the analysis that allowed/caused the media to give Trump so much free air time.
The MSM is in a conflict between news and entertainment. News serves a function, but entertainment gets ratings. So MSM has blended them together, with the reply being there is very little ‘news’ at all.
Once the media went down this path it made them vulnerable to someone like Trump. They convinced themselves he was like them (the media), and just faking, that he did not REALLY believe what he said, it was all an act. Because Trump WAS an entertainer and a con man, it was easy for them.
But we are beyond that now. Watching the two debates, there is no doubt it’s no act, he does believe what he says. He really is angry. His heart really is dark as coal, and just as hard. He really will try to do everything he says.
I’m not disagreeing about him wanting his own FOX news.
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Not ready to concede the shattering of the GOP until there is a major shift of political direction at the national state and local level on election day.
So far, it still looks like the game of Red State-Blue State that has been around for a while.
We really need “gone like the Federalists”, “gone like the Whigs” to move forward. Only the current Republicans are like unto the plantation party that did in the Federalists and the Whigs.
A Party is hardly dead if it holds the House and most of the State Houses.
I cannot think I have ever disliked the republican voter more than this cycle, I mean getting suckered by the brush clearing cowboy with a dad who’d been preznit, and Ronnie and his acting trained presidential con job can sort of be understood because they were very good at leading people into thinking against their own best interests.
Now comes Trump?
You people on the Trump-Train serve no useful purpose in the running of our country. Can’t wait for Election Day.
Most of us will not fault people for wanting a leader who maybe did not have a long political pedigree. Maybe they saw what a Bush legacy led to and wanted a Jimmy Stewart character (shut up, I’m old) to step in with intelligence and common sense and a solid background working with people. Maybe people thought that Trump, a political outsider, was going to use his experience as an outspoken business tycoon to shake things up in Washington and use his wheeler-dealer style to straighten up the financial aspects of our countey.
But that fantasy never existed, it was never going to exist. When you hand the car keys to an inexperienced, immature show-off, you had better call your insurance agent before that car leaves the driveway. The Republican followers not only gave Trump the keys, they handed him roofies and a couple of bottles of gin and some coke.
So now we have a bizarro world where a certified rapist, racist, crooked blowhard carnival barker with a thin skin and an ego as big as the great outdoors has a shot at running, I mean ruining this country. Whenver he opens his mouth, I find myself wondering who thinks this guy should be President? Who thinks this man, who cannot compose a sentence, who is uneducated on world powers and doesn’t respect women, minorities, or the middle class, is fit to hold any position of political power?
It’s a terrible, terrible joke.
The age of men is over; the time of the creepy clown has come!
“Most of us will not fault people … ” You’re right, I won’t. But it suggests an interesting research question — why people would have chosen, as the alternative to Hillary, either Trump, Sanders, Jill Stein or Gary Johnson, respectively.
But the fantasy never existed. No, but a lot of people really thought it did. I have always known Trump was full of shit. The only surprise for me has been just how full of shit. But certain kinds of people fall for it every time.
But there’s another factor that you don’t mention. Plenty of them, if they didn’t know before, know it now. But it doesn’t dissuade them, because the chief motivating factor is spite.
Spite is such a big factor with the Trump voters that the old expression really applies, that they would happily cut off their nose to spite their face.
http://exiledonline.com/we-the-spiteful/
At least one kid knows what he is;
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Yes, that was telling…
I’m not sure the Clinton accusers fell flat, though the media thinks so, so it might be self-fulfilling. I think most people had forgotten that stuff and therefore forgotten that they had decided not to believe it. The charges themselves are very damning – Trump said Clinton had to settle with one for 850K, is that true? I didn’t remember that.
Clinton basically just didn’t respond at all. That’s what made it seem to fall flat. It had no visible impact on her. That’s a strategy, but I don’t know that all the voters are going to go for it. She was obviously avoiding the issue. Hope I’m wrong.
Yes,
Paula Jones received somewhere around 800,000 dollars to go away, with no admission of guilt.
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Avoiding the “issue”? What issue? Where a candidate’s spouse may once have put his pee-pee is an “issue”, like social-security privatization or health care subsidies? That’s got to be the most sickening thing about this campaign so far. Can the country be dragged any deeper into the fever swamps? I knew the campaign wouldn’t be won on the high road but Trump has turned it into the Jerry Springer show, and we’re all the worse for it.
If Trump groping women, or saying he does, is an issue, well, that’s pretty much what Wiley accused Clinton of. Of course, that’s Bill, not Hillary, but Hillary stayed married to him and protected him. Of course, I don’t believe Wiley and the others, and the American people came to pretty much the same conclusion at the time. I think it’s hard to maintain the Trump tape is relevant and the Clinton accusers are not, unless you take the position that the Clinton accusers are lying. But calling women who yell rape liars is pretty much verboten in the feminist community, and that’s what hobbles Clinton now. And I don’t think there has ever been proof that they’re lying (though I would love to be wrong on that), it’s just that the charges appear politically motivated.
Please remember that even Kenneth Starr thought Wiley should be charged with perjury and he would have really wanted everything she said to be true.
I didn’t know that. Thank you. How did Starr know with such certainty that she was lying?
I’m not sure he ever thought that, it’s just that her credibility was under assault from several directions.
It’s a long story.
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Wiki Profile
Going after the Clinton’s has always been a profitable industry. Some involved, like Starr, or these days the ones surrounding Trump, are damn disgusting.
But anybody who lends themselves to aid a person like Trump is beyond the pale.
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Well, two things – 1) we’re talking about Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump; only one of them will be President, and only one of them talked about (and likely engaged in) sexual assault of one kind or another; and 2) the Bill Clinton accusations were litigated long ago, when the accusations were much fresher than they are today, and Bill Clinton paid at least some price for his transgressions; Trump has never “paid” in any meaningful sense for anything similar he may have done.
It’s especially weird in that it’s not the candidate’s spouse that’s running. Not only did most Americans hear all they wanted to hear about this stuff, and more, over 16 years ago, but the idea that it disqualifies Hillary for office is a non sequitur for people with normal brain function.
You know, I think this election has probably irreversibly altered my opinion of many family members, neighbors, friends and my hometown. And not in a positive way. As my wife and I were driving around in our area over the weekend, we found it absolutely stunning the number of Trump yard signs there were. I have never seen so many political signs. They are everywhere. One house after another, up and down every road around where I live. Now I know this is a heavily Republican area here, typically the GOP candidates will pull 68-70% of the vote. But signs have generally been something that only the most partisan or engaged people will display. You see them, especially during a Presidential year. But this year is different. My wife wondered out loud why there are so many more signs. My theory to her was that these signs are simply tribal identifiers for all these people. It is a way for them to display, in a more subtle kind of way, that they identify and support the core message of Donald Trump, which we have seen and heard from the very beginning. They are, in essence, the flag of The Angry White Person. And after this past week’s revelation of Trump’s affinity for bragging about being able to sexually assault women, I have to wonder how these people really feel. But it’s not like the events of Friday were a bombshell. It was just the cherry on the sundae of misogyny, xenophobia and racism that has been the hallmark of his campaign from the very first day. His awful agenda is all out there, in plain view, and still my neighbors proudly display their support. I am beginning to come the dawning realization that this area, the place I have lived for the last 50 years, and the people I have known for virtually all of my life are, in at least some sense, deplorable. Or at least they have a sort of demon inside them that this message of hate piques and animates. And this campaign, and it’s loosing of all the bonds of civility and humanity that most of us see as the structural foundation of our national politics, has freed them to openly and proudly consort with and entertain these demons that are lurking in their hearts.
I truly feel like a stranger in a place and a people that are a part of me. These people are really okay with, and proudly showing their support, of what Donald Trump stands for. And this realization makes me very sad.
I feel your pain. I have a number of friends that I worked for or with who display a kind of evil. Hillary truly is Satan and all the things Trump throws out at her and they seem to all want her in jail. I don’t know them anymore. As a result we have taken to ourselves. Perhaps when the madness passes things will get better again.
One can only hope. But I’m not sure that will happen, at least for me. I have known for all my adult life that this area had a pretty significant underbelly of bigotry and racism. But after the Obama years, and now this campaign, I’m just not sure I can ever put it all behind me. I have gotten a glimpse into the darkest recesses of the soul of my community. And it has been an very ugly realization for me. That is not to say that everyone is this way, but enough that it makes the idea of leaving here something I would strongly consider at some point.
This just gets to the point that I think gets missed when progressives go on about working class folks, banks, trade, etc.: a lot of wingers just don’t care. They want someone who’ll take it to liberals and democratic leaning constituencies. I live and work in the most conservative area of California, and by far that’s the biggest thing I hear.
a single Trump sign, even in yards with signs for other GOPers downballot.
Trump is scheduled to appear here this Thursday. Local Dems are trying organize a protest presence at the rally. That’s kind of risky proposition around here, but it will be interesting to see if it comes off and how things go. Interestingly, I have seen a few people who have signs for other Republican candidates, but no Trump sign at all. And probably the funniest thing I saw was just today. A neighbor down the road put his Kasich For President sign back out today that he had displayed during the primary. He lives right across the street from the biggest Trump fan in the neighborhood. Not surprisingly, the Trump supporter also flies a huge Tea Party flag on his flagpole.