Oliver Willis speculates that the Trump administration may face a formidable opposition in the form of a “shadow government” led by President Obama. As evidence, he cites comments Obama just made in Peru.
“I want to be respectful of the office and give the president-elect an opportunity to put forward his platform and his arguments without somebody popping off in every instance.”
But he added, “As an American citizen who cares deeply about our country, if there are issues that have less to do with the specifics of some legislative proposal or battle but go to core questions about our values and our ideals, and if I think that it’s necessary or helpful for me to defend those ideals, then I’ll examine it when it comes.”
Willis also mentions Obama’s high approval numbers which are currently being measured in the mid-to-high fifties.
I have a slightly different way of looking at this. The last time we had a switch in government as jarring as the one we’re about to experience was in 1932. But, in that case, FDR was elected with over 57% of the vote, the Republicans lost 101 seats in the House of Representatives and 12 seats in the Senate. The country was also in the midst of the Great Depression and the outgoing administration was thoroughly discredited. In our present situation, the outgoing president is not only popular and respected but his designated successor is currently ahead in the popular vote by approximately 1.7 million votes.
FDR’s New Deal coalition would go on to win four more presidential elections in a row before being knocked out of power by General Eisenhower. But there are two things to consider about Eisenhower. The first is that he was not an ideological Republican and he did not attempt to undo Roosevelt and Truman’s legacy root-and-branch. The second is that while he did bring in Republican majorities with him, they were so unpopular that the both the Senate and the House were lost to the Republicans after a single two-year Congress, and those majorities were not won back for twenty-six years (in the case of the Senate) and forty years (in the case of the House).
When Kennedy replaced Eisenhower they was certainly a powerful backlash, particularly from those who were unhappy with his Cuban policies, but there really wasn’t a dramatic shift in the direction of the country. In any case, the nation was more divided over civil rights than over the presidency.
By the time the Nixon administration came into power, the country was split in all kinds of ways and the New Deal coalition was coming apart. But Nixon still had to reckon with a Democratic Congress and he made accommodations to the preexisting postwar framework of government rather than attempting to fundamentally transform it. His lasting legacy was more in giving us a conservative Supreme Court which has persisted to this day.
The Carter administration looks like an anomaly in retrospect. It was a restoration, in a sense, but one that bucked the national trend toward more conservative governance. It seems to me that his unpopularity was more performance driven than natural backlash, though he was operating “out of time.”
Reagan’s election presented us with the biggest jolt since 1932, but even here Reagan had to deal with a Democratic House of Representatives that limited his ambitions. There was a backlash that showed up in the 1982 midterms, and it many have been greater if there hadn’t been a near-fatal assassination attempt that muted criticism and gained Reagan good will.
It was Bill Clinton’s election that created the biggest backlash, resulting in the Gingrich Revolution and marking the final end of New Deal dominance in Congress. Clinton was elected with only 43% of the vote, which seems more important in light of subsequent events than it seemed at the time.
George W. Bush’s election in 2000 was controversial both because he lost the popular vote and because the Supreme Court had to intervene to decide that he had won the Electoral College vote and the presidency. But, like Reagan, a calamitous event in his first year in office muted criticism and gained him a lot of good will.
When Barack Obama entered office, he was replacing a spent force and an administration nearly as discredited as Herbert Hoover had been seventy-six years prior. It may have been partly courtesy that Bush didn’t comment publicly on the performance of his successor, but it was largely because no one seemed to want to hear from him. Nonetheless, there was a very strong backlash against Obama’s first two years in office which had brought in more sweeping changes than any since Lyndon Johnson’s presidency in the first two years after his 1964 election.
One lesson here is that it’s normal for there to be a strong reaction against any presidency that brings fundamental changes almost irrespective of how sweeping those changes are. Only FDR escaped this pattern.
Another lesson is that presidents can weather these storms and win reelection.
But the biggest thing I want you to take away is that it is highly unusual for there to be as big a swing in power between the two parties as what we’re about to experience. Other than the example of Hoover and FDR, we can see only partial parallels. LBJ’s 1964 landslide changed the political landscape not by switching which party had power but by giving the president’s party enough additional power to roll over both internal dissenters and the opposition. Reagan’s power was expressed more radically in the Executive Branch than legislatively, as he always faced divided government. And George W. Bush enjoyed intermittent control of Congress during his first six years in office, but faced a more robust filibuster.
Donald Trump lost the popular vote by quite a lot. He didn’t win the endorsement of single major circulation paper not owned by Sheldon Adelson. The intelligentsia of his own party opposed him with fury and looks at his presidency with much more trepidation than enthusiasm. Even the most favorable post-election honeymoon polls only give him a 46%-46% approval rating. And yet he promises to bring disruptive change and has the power to do it.
As we’ve seen, even presidents with clear popular vote victories experience strong pushback, especially when they have the power to disrupt the system. But Trump is likely to experience a much shorter honeymoon and a much more furious backlash. Unlike FDR and LBJ, he did not win in a landslide. Unlike Nixon and Reagan, Congress cannot constrain him. Unlike Obama and the Younger Bush, he is not replacing a discredited president.
In these circumstances, Barack Obama occupies a position without modern precedent. He is more popular than his successor and its his legacy that will be dismantled.
If he chooses to be a critic, he will be a powerful thorn in Trump’s side.
“…if he chooses” is key. This doesn’t give me hope:
“I certainly don’t want them to do what Mitch McConnell did’: Obama warns Dems against obstruction”
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/i-certainly-dont-want-them-to-do-what-mitch-mcconnell-did-obama-warn
s-dems-against-obstruction/comments/#disqus
Looks like it’s bye-bye to the promise of overtime to hourly wage workers.
From Bloomberg- 11/21/2016-“Congress May Leave Early in an Attempt to Thwart Overtime Rule
By wrapping up a week sooner, they’ll be able to use a resolution of disapproval to go after a Labor Department rule allowing millions more workers to collect overtime pay that was published May 23 and is set to go into effect Dec. 1.”
Merry Christmas, Congress.
Pretty sure you meant that to read that his designated successor is BEHIND by 1.7 million votes.
No, she’s ahead.
Even an odder time in a way – The Dems picked up seats in the House and the Senate.
And yet Trump is a first time President with both houses and a Supreme Court vacancy.
Small margin. Big consequences.
Not so odd. Democrats picked up four Senate seats in 2000. Only gained one House seat. 2016 a net gain of two or three Senators and a mere six House Reps.
But the Dems held the Senate in 2000. They actually flipped it from GOP to Dem.
Nope. 46 seats before the 2000 election and 50 seats after as of the new Congress on January 3, 2001 with VP Gore the tiebreaker until January 20, 2001 and VP Cheney after that. Until Jefford’s defection.
The comparison is obviously I inexact, but I’ve long worried Obama was in a Wilson situation rather than an FDR/LBJ one. Elected with majorities that were tenuous, Wilson enacted big changes for the time, and supported state sponsored progressive measures, but saw his accomplishments whittled down and his lattitude curbed by opposition in Congress as his administration rolled forward. Ultimately, the Wilson era was followed by a hard right turn, where state minimum wage laws, work safety laws, and a host of other progressive wins were ended by the Taft Supreme Court. A rise in anti-immigrant perspective gave a newly reconstituted KKK a role in governing affairs, as multiple congressmen associated with the organization. The Harding administration was corrupt, and followed the well-oiled Wilson administration. The left itself divided as unions squabbled over what were, in retrospect, small things, and it wasn’t until FDR that real wins were attained.
Again, the comparison is inexact, but it’s quite possible Trump will be our Harding in terms of corruption. However, his influence could be lasting with his court appointments, etc.
When Barack Obama entered office, he was replacing a spent force and an administration nearly as discredited as Herbert Hoover had been seventy-six years prior.
Uh — In 2006 Democrats took back the House that they’d lost a dozen years before and the Senate that they lost at the same time and except forthe brief period 2001-2002 (thanks to Jefford’s resignation from the GOP) hadn’t regained either.
As with the 1930 midterm elections, the 2006 midterms projected wins for Democrats in 2008. But FDR was smart enough not to lose that advantage two years later (and the big money thugs failed to make their coup plot off the drawing board.
Obama will spend the bulk of his next two years doing what all former presidents since Carter have done. Fundraising for their presidential museum, “writing” their memoirs (those hefty book advances come with deadlines), and picking up personal thank you checks. If there’s a battle for the heart and soul of the DP (Clinton v. Obama), we’ll know soon enough if the battle was limited to those two factions (not so different as to public policies but they really don’t like each other) and if so, who the winner is.
Page Six — The Obamas are going bicoastal
I expect very little from Obama once he leaves office. I think keeping my expectations as low as they can possibly go is good idea. I suggest others to do likewise. That way, you won’t be in for a rude awakening.
. . . once he leaves office.”
Why?
I expect a great deal.
He has no reason to skulk in the shadows, coming out of hiding to paint his toes in the bathtub like dubya (who deservedly fears to travel outside U.S. borders).
Whether to expect the next chapter to be written within or outside the political arena is a separate question.
“[Eisenhower] was not an ideological Republican and he did not attempt to undo Roosevelt and Truman’s legacy root-and-branch.”
Correct. Robert A. Taft, who was Eisenhower’s bitter rival for the nomination, would have tried to do that. The mainstream Republicans recognized it would be counterproductive. They were much more concerned about foreign policy at that point (Cold War).
The crew that’s behind Trump is much closer, genealogically, not even to Bob Taft, but to his distant cousin Ezra Taft Benson, who despite serving Eisenhower 8 years as Secretary of Agriculture, considered the president a communist stooge. Benson was an inspirer and supporter (though never a member) of the John Birch Society.
Thanks for reminder on Benson.
Interesting way to think about this, as usual. Looks like what has happened since 1960 is that our ex-prez’s left office either dead or pretty severely discredited for one reason or other. The exception is St. Reagan, but he handed the office off to his Veep so not much reason for him criticizing. Also, too, dementia!
Obama will be a return to the situation more in line with Truman, although Harry S was being replaced by a highly popular war hero, not an utterly unqualified con-man with obvious psychological problems who lost the popular vote by the largest margin ever while “winning” via the antidemocratic electoral college. So Obama is in some sense unique to our time. (I forget, but Truman also may have had some overhang from the Korean War, which was for decades seen as a serious defeat for us. In any event, he seems to have kept his mouth shut over Ike.)
Thus, the unspoken tradition of ex-prezes not commenting on their successor’s failures or proposals may have been a byproduct of the fact that so many of them left office as fairly unpopular figures. But you can bet that should Obama offer a comment on Der Trumper’s appalling agenda, the Rightwing Noise Machine will be roaring about The Tradition at full volume–and the “Break with Tradition!” will be the story on the useless corporate media, not the substance of what Obama may say.
So like the disastrous electoral college, our institutions and traditions will probably count against us vis a vis Obama’s voice in the future.
This is a perfectly respectable review of how we got here, as far as it goes, but there’s a big omission. How much clearer it would be if JFK, his popularity and his assassination, were factored into it. JFK and even Johnson were genuine New Dealers, and JFK, at least, wanted to end the Cold War.
The tragedy of Bill Clinton is his well-known “triangulation.” Yes, his presidency created a huge backlash, but his policies fatally weakened his, and the whole Democratic Party’s, ability to counter that backlash. He pissed off the left by abandoning them, and he pissed off the right by poaching on their territory. We’re living with the consequences of that.
The comparison of Obama to JFK is valid, but while FDR also faced bitter opposition on the right, it was not as strong as what Obama had to deal with. FDR, through a combination of personality, social position, and of course circumstance, was much bolder than Obama was in dealing with the financial crisis. But Obama did what he could.
Also, I don’t believe Obama had anything near the leverage over the Democratic Party that Roosevelt had. This is something I keep bringing up (in connection with how and why Hillary was more coronated than nominated), and which is very little talked about. I don’t claim to KNOW, in fact, I wish others would weigh in if they do, because there are some real questions here. It is clear that despite Obama’s victory over Hillary in 2008, the Clintons retained control of the party itself. The only question is, is that what Obama really wanted? I doubt it.
Rahm Emanuel, a Clintonist, is a key element in this question. You have to admit that the Clintonists’ connections with the PermaGov, as AG would put it, were far deeper than Obama’s. It also explains why Howard Dean hated Emanuel (and Dean was absolutely right about the 50 state strategy, as proven not only in 2008 but also negatively in this election). Unfortunately that spilled over to a feud with Obama as well.
http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/campaign-chair-was-urged-to-have-clinton-avoid-unpopular-emanuel/
I know it’s fashionable here to hate Maureen Dowd, and yes, she does write a lot of crap. But my take on her is that she’s actually a lot smarter than people like Brooks or the Moustache of Understanding, and every so often she proves it by writing something quite insightful.
So with that introduction, I want to quote a recent op-ed piece of hers, actually on a similar topic to this thread: “Obama Lobbies against Obliteration by Trump” where she makes the very point I am asking about:
“Out of a hailstorm of unfathomable things during the week, one sticks out to me: How can it be that in the end, Barack Obama did not understand the Obama revolution?
“He came away from that elated whoosh in 2008 not comprehending that many voters viewed him as the escape hatch from Clinton Inc. It never would have occurred to anyone then — even the Clintons — that President Obama would be the one to brush away any aversions and objections, take us by the elbow, and firmly steer us back to Clinton Inc.
“Voters waited in line for hours at those early Obama rallies because they wanted thunderous change. They wanted a newcomer who didn’t look like the old dudes on our money, someone who would bust up the incestuous system and give us, as the poster said, hope.
“But Obama lost touch with his revolutionary side and settled comfortably into being an Ivy League East Coast cerebral elitist who hung out with celebrities, lectured Congress and scorned the art of political persuasion.
“He was cozy with Silicon Valley and dismissive of working-class voters anxious about globalization, shrugging that “We’re part of an interconnected global economy now, and there’s no going back from that.” He was dismissive of Americans anxious about terrorism after the Paris attacks, noting that you’d be more likely to die from a bathtub fall.
“He was dismissive of Bernie Sanders and his voters, treating Sanders as a fairy tale, just as Bill Clinton treated him in 2008 when he was a senator with little record but with an army of passionate supporters who wanted to upend moldy politics.
“Nudging Sanders and Joe Biden toward the exit, Obama was the ultimate establishmentarian. As he told the Rutgers student paper in May, “We have to make incremental changes where we can, and every once in a while you’ll get a breakthrough and make the kind of big changes that are necessary.”
“The man who swept into the White House in a boisterous rebellion was dismissive of the boisterous rebellions in both the Democratic and Republican Parties. He insisted that an incrementalist and fellow Ivy League East Coast cerebral elitist who hangs out with celebrities would be best to save his legacy.
“Even Michelle, who understands the importance of the visceral in politics better than her husband and who said in 2007 that the bid to usurp Hillary was about “our souls,” tamped down hope. “Remember, it’s not about voting for the perfect candidate,” she told a crowd at La Salle University. “There is no such person.”
I’m not sure about what she’s saying in the last five paragraphs. I don’t know how much Obama himself is really to blame. It may just be that what killed the Democrats was not simply the right wing, but also the failure of the Democratic Party to sufficiently back what the voters really wanted Obama to do, and which he would have done more of if he could have. Obama is a pragmatist and no doubt he did the best with what he had, not because he wanted it that way.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/opinion/sunday/obama-lobbies-against-obliteration-by-trump.html?_r
=0
Post-election analyses make a very good case that Hillary Clinton lost not because of RW backlash (there was plenty of that, but not enough to defeat her) but because enough Obama voters in MI, WI, PA, and elsewhere didn’t come out to vote for her, or actually switched to Trump.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-voter-turnout-key-states_us_582b79bae4b01d8a014b
051f
Did Obama really not understand the Obama revolution? Or was he just blocked from carrying it through? Was it only the GOP that stood in his way, or did the Democratic Party also screw up?
Puzzle through that “not enough Obama voters in MI, WI, PA, and elsewhere didn’t come out for her or actually switched to Trump.”
Now ask yourself, exacty why is it that Sheriff Clarke of Milwaukee WI is on the list for Trump’s Secretary of Homeland Security? Exactly why is Flint MI still without water? Exactly why is the NC governors race still not settled?
And what reasons might have had for not appearing in exit polls to have turned out in sufficient numbers to vote for Clinton? What reasons might escaped them about Trump and why? What things to Obama voters and Trump voters have in common?
The attempts to normalize a very abnormal election continue.
You’d be on terra firma with your suspicions if the same reduction in DP votes and increase in GOP votes didn’t happen in states controlled by Democrats and there’s not been a hint of possible Democratic vote shenanigans — an admittedly short list in this election cycle.
You and nobody can explain these swings (D to R from ’12 to ’16)
ME: 12.6%
NH: 5.2%
CT: 3.7%
DE: 7.2%
HI: 10.5%
MD: 0.8%
NY: 7.0% (yes, NY which wouldn’t go on my ’16 clean elections list)
RI: 12%
OR: 1.1% (not much less than the swing in FL)
There are more than one reason. Some states were more likely to have suppression than others; their names were in court filings almost continuously over the past year.
And the fact remains that Clinton won the popular vote, but it was the distribution of the vote that caused Trump to win the Electoral college.
The pressure to fight back with shenigans just increased immensely. At some point the process is cleaned up of every party running has their campaign of shenanigans.
And people give up altogether on elections.
For Trumpistas, “Mission Accomplished.”
JacobinMag – Christian Parenti Garbage In, Garbage Out
Turns out Clinton’s ground game sucked.
The elephant in the room is that manufacturing enthusiasm is much harder than election operatives claim. But sometimes they jump on the team with the biggest bucks and a cash flow that will keep them employed for a couple of years and hope for the best outcome.
I’m not sure the causality in the second paragraph works out so simply. There’s not that much daylight between the ideas of Obama and those of the DNC, and the structural reasons for that are obvious. Yet it’s clear that Obama’s ground game was at least tactically adequate, if not tactically superb. Ideology alone doesn’t explain all this mess.
And this — NYTimes (for whatever worth the “paper of record” has today — but this report wouldn’t seem to be one they would have an interest in not playing straight as they really were all in with her) Many in Milwaukee Neighborhood Didn’t Vote — and Don’t Regret It
For what it’s worth — I know those neighborhoods, I know those businesses, I’ve talked to people just like those people in previous elections. This election I went down to the south side just for a change of pace, to see if it was any different.
It was a little different in degree but not in kind. In the poorer working-class neighborhoods people were skeptical of Clinton’s class politics. In the more well-to-do ones they were more skeptical of her ethics. Unfair? Yeah, maybe a little. But the only line I found had any traction talking to people — with some exceptions such as teachers and other public employees — was “vote against the madman”. Anybody who’s ever done this knows that that is a losing proposition for getting out votes. We all had the same experience: nobody had seen such a low-enthusiasm voter base since the recall. Getting people out to a rally was like pulling teeth.
Leaving aside the anarcho-communists (and who better to leave aside than them?) the left here threw everything we had into supporting Clinton. Because we knew what the consequences would be if we didn’t. We put up with all of the organizational intrigue. We put up with all of the smarmy condescension. We put up with all of the reassurances that the Clinton campaign knew what they were doing when in fact they had no fucking clue what they were doing — and now we’re the ones who are going to pay, we’re the ones who are going to have to do the heavy lifting to fix this mess because the campaign has disappeared and the Democrats aren’t going to reappear for another 18 months (at least here — in Wisconsin the Democrats don’t do anything but elections). And they do them rather badly.
Liberals, because they’re liberals, are trying to shift the blame: “well, it was bad but if Sanders had been nominated it would have been worse”. That’s a counterfactual: the Sanders campaign had some crucial weaknesses but he wasn’t the nominee — Clinton was. And now that time for taking responsibility has come, they’re not in the mood. Which just means that next time will be more or less the same as this time.
Voter turnout in Milwaukee sucked. Clinton had to roll up big numbers here to counteract the bleeding in 70 other counties in the state (except Dane, that’s Madison). That’s the way it always is here. And she failed, she just plain failed to do the minimal due diligence as a candidate.
Let’s not get confused. Every white supremacist in the country voted for Trump, yes. But it wasn’t the racists who got him elected. This distinction may be less clear in the South. But it wasn’t the South that got him elected, either.
This is very well explained by Michael Moore in an excerpt from Morning Joe, MSNBC, Nov. 11th. The speakers are Michael Moore, Mika Brzezinski, Joe Scarborough, Anand Giridharadas, and Prof. Eddie Glaude (chair of the Center for African-American Studies and the William S. Tod Professor of Religion and African-American Studies at Princeton University).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrkut19jKdg
If you want to see the whole thing:
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/michael-moore-joins-wide-ranging-election-talk-806604867876
Also:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/upshot/how-did-trump-win-over-so-many-obama-voters.html
Also, google “How voters who heavily supported Obama switched over to Trump”
Don’t know exactly where you’re going with this Tarheel. Bottom line, Clinton ran a piss-poor campaign in Wisconsin. So did Feingold. The constant wrangling over voter ID didn’t help any but — this was a fuckup. Only way to put it.
Bit of a problem to run campaign when the candidate must have a limited appearance schedule. Add the lack of enthusiasm which turns into volunteers and it’s a very expensive proposition to have as many field offices as Obama had.
FDR also faced bitter opposition on the right, it was not as strong as what Obama had to deal with.
Ah, but FDR was cagey enough that he got rid of what would have been his biggest congressional impediment by naming the Speaker of the House as his VP. In the first go-around, how many Democratic Senators, that presumably would have been more favorable to Obama, did he appoint to his administration? Except for his own Senate seat, it didn’t result in GOP pick-ups of the seats, but there was some interim messiness having so many Senators move up in one fell swoop.
Obama revolution? What kind of revolution was that exactly? Lots of hype(ventilation) and excitement about so-called hope and change but not much revolution there as far as I remember or at least nothing I would label as such. After all he did follow George W. Bush who was brilliantly successful–remember him of the glorious Iraq fiasco and economic collapse?–and had the good fortune of running against a respected Republican who burned his fingers on Sarah Palin–maybe you’ve forgotten her too. Of all his political choices, his placement of Hillary Clinton at State strikes me as the most peculiar, most dishonest. Why did he ever do that? A deal, a sense of male chivalry, pressure by the Democratic establishment? She evidently deserved a consolation prize. He intentionally prolonged the political life of the Clintons. She offered nothing that especially recommended her appointment. And now she has lost to Donald Trump but gets the consolation prize of winning the national vote. It’s just incomprehensible that the Democrats didn’t dump the Clintons a long time ago. What a path of suffering this has all become. What unforeseen consequences will soon become visible on January 20.
Why did he make his statement about his intent to guard the US against the trepidations of Donald Trump on US principles in Peru? Would it have been impolitic to tell it to the US people at home or is he saving that as a farewell surprise? All these questions about Obama and in the twinkling of an eye he will be gone to bask in his aura.
Not a revolution (other than celebrating our own revolution every year, the vast majority Americans recoil from the thought and mostly the word itself — the biggest miss by Sanders IMHO), but in 2006 the beginning of a breakthrough into majority semi-consciousness that things had been going wrong for so long that there must be a better way to go forward. Obama merely caught that wave without actually saying that in his words and not authentically embracing it either. He became like a majority collective unconscious Rorschach test; people saw in him what they wanted to believe was there and held onto it through 2012.
Far more methodically, the Clinton campaign worked a weaker longing/desire for a woman president. And did it poorly IMO. Yet to this day a majority of Democrats remain under the Clinton spell. A spell that I never actually experienced and therefore, never understood. Bill’s record was atrocious and Hillary’s isn’t any better.
wrt Clinton’s appointment as SoS, that’s only part of Obama’s seeming deference to the Clintons. Their attacks on him in the ’08 primary were ugly. My take is that it is all explained by a ’08 post-primary deal. Whether accurate or not, the Clintons believed they had the power to cause Obama to lose and Obama either accepted that belief or chose not to risk that it was true. He wanted to be POTUS as much as Hillary did.
(I’m fully aware that staunch Clinton supporters say no way would they have not fully backed, supported, and campaigned for a Democratic nominee. or — shudder — endorsed John McCain. Doesn’t matter if it was a bluff because Obama didn’t call them on it. And as the Clintons had a front row seat in seeing how that can work for an opponent or faction in the DP in ’72, they had the motive and means to play it.)
So, in consideration of their support (and recall that is would have taken place before either Obama or McCain had named his running mate), 1) the SoS position (because it’s high-profile and garners a lot of media attention if one travels a lot and meets and greets VIPs around the world (don’t know if she wanted or asked for VP or if she did if Obama nixed it) 2) virtually a total free hand on how she managed State and her own affairs as Secretary 3) pave the way, if she wanted to run in ’16. That would have included Obama not choosing a VP that would likely be seen as his natural successor and challenging her.
What I’m not so confident in guessing is if control of the DNC to the Clintons was part of the original deal. Kaine went with Obama over Clinton early in ’08 which suggests that it wasn’t and it was after the ’10 mid-terms bloodbath that a Clinton could make the case that he had to go and one of “their’s” should take over. OTOH, Kaine has always seemed like a more natural fit with Clinton than Obama. Perhaps it was more generational than political orientation that brought Kaine into the Obama fold. Anyway, didn’t surprise me at all that she chose Kaine.
The Clintons delivered their support (even if Bill occasionally let his authentic feelings slip out during a public forum) and Obama honored his commitment. (Private and personal commitments do seem to be honored more often than public ones.)
Yes, private commitments are a matter of honour—in the mafia sense.
“Of all his political choices, his placement of Hillary Clinton at State strikes me as the most peculiar, most dishonest. Why did he ever do that? A deal, a sense of male chivalry, pressure by the Democratic establishment? She evidently deserved a consolation prize. He intentionally prolonged the political life of the Clintons. She offered nothing that especially recommended her appointment.”
Quentin, you’ve addressed my question. Your thinking on this is very similar to mine. I just don’t know how much agency Obama had in this. You’re right to point out the significance of the SoS appointment. Probably the thinking was, yes it is a consolation prize. But maybe a consolation prize demanded by the Clintons. One that she would use to position herself. They were making demands. Remeber she expected he pay her campaign debts? (I never understood that–why should he?)
It was a big mistake, but to try to stop it — would it have caused a civil war in the party? Let’s put it like this. If he did go along with intentionally from the beginning, it was the biggest mistake, by far, of his whole presidency. And I say that not by hindsight. I would have said that in 2013, and I did — I just didn’t blame it on him.
Sanders met with Obama, I believe twice, towards the start of his campaign. I wonder what they talked about.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/obama-campaign-raises-money-for-hillary-clinton/?_r=0
This….a million times. My brother did not vote this time around, but proudly and loudly voted for Obama in the past. When I asked him why he didn’t vote he simply said because Obama failed him. He voted for Obama to bring about change. And while the Republicans thwarted him, backing Clinton so strongly conceded that he wasn’t the change agent my brother thought he was. So out of frustration he abstained.
I remember Kellyanne in an interview after the Comey fiasco very confidently state Hillary was done. She basically said something to the effect that Hillary’s untrustworthy numbers were too high, and because of that she wouldn’t be able to weather the storm.
This election was very much a doubling down on the broad concept of “change” and a rejection of the Clintons.
” … backing Clinton so strongly conceded that he wasn’t the change agent my brother thought he was.”
You’re saying something very important. Whatever the degree of enthusiasm Obama did or did not have for the Clinton run, his support for her candidacy really did demoralize a significant number of his followers and has “tarnished his legacy” as they say — at least in the short term. Unless, as Booman is suggesting, he can help the new Democratic party (it better be new) in the difficult times ahead.
I felt this same demoralization. As you can see from my comments, I don’t WANT to blame it on Obama, and I knew too much about Trump to ever think of voting for him. Vote for him? I can’t even look at him or listen to his stupid mouth. But I was terribly worried about the Clinton run the minute I heard about it. I supported Bernie, but after the primaries, following Bernie’s lead, and what to me was just common sense, I was reconciled to voting for her. I was never not going to vote for her, but I had to adjust.
Eventually I adjusted so well, I convinced myself Hillary understood that the Sanders / Warren people had to have much more real power in running the party. But more likely she was planning on tokenism. I also believed the polls, pretty much. So what actually happened was as much of a shock to me as it was to millions of others.
I supported Clinton in the primaries because I was essentially following Obama’s lead and I thought Bermie was too far left. As the primaries wore on, I started thinking maybe Bernie had something going on, but it was too late for him. I also realized by the end of the primary that she was a very weak candidate. After all, Obama beat her in ’08 as an insurgent, Bernie gave her a run for her money as an insurgent too…and now she’s facing another insurgent on the republican side. I was always concerned about her chances despite the polls. It was just a feeling I had….that she was too damaged and Trump had tapped into something that was unpredictable.
The outcome was disappointing but not surprising to me.
Like you, I hate to blame Obama, but I am so concerned about our political climate that I have to put some blame on him. Once he saw the Republicans had an impenetrable wall of obstruction he should’ve become a rhetorical warrior, loudly calling out their cynical politics. He has an enourmous amount of goodwill from the public and I think people would’ve appreciated his fight and been more willing to support Dems this election as a rejection of the Republican tactics. Instead, he seemed to have accepted it, so people looked to other people to figure out how to break the status quo.
In the end, he made a deal with the Clintons because he had to. The Party establishment, I feel, never moved on from the Clintons even after he won. Now that same establishment is going to try and navigate Trumpism and because they seem incapable of genuine self-reflection, they will fail unless we push them like the tea party did to Republicans.
Obama will be a different ex-President because at no time in history have so many been so intent in denying the President a legacy for such trivial reasons. Watch.
The campaign has already demonized Clinton’s post-Presidential record. Think Obama will follow that example?
As for following the Carter example, Trump-Bannon can easily twist that into as negative a thing as possible and the Wall Street media will shove it down the public’s throat while glorifying Trump.
I don’t think popularity polls will rescue him. If he chooses to be a critic, he will be delegitimized as fast as have #blacklivesmatter and #NoDAPL. Trump might even have a scheme to put Obama in prison for something or other.
These are not normal times and the progressives cheering Trump because he stopped Clinton are going to be shocked at what occurs.
Amen. I’ve come to think of some of those progressives as useful idiots.
I’m not cheering Trump for anything. But I am glad Clinton was stopped. Just like I was angry that the Russians hacked the Democratic Party computer, but felt vindicated to know about the dirty tricks Debbie & Co. were playing on Bernie Sanders, and glad it ended her stinnt as DNC head.
If that sounds incoherent, it’s actually not. Sometimes there are actual ironies and paradoxes in life. This year there were many.
Here’s another paradox: Michael Moore, who is more articulate than anybody on how and why Trump won, and has tremendous compassion for the Rust-Belters that elected him, and knows that happened because the Democratic Party screwed them twice over, once by not helping them and twice by getting rid of the candidate they would have voted for, Bernie Sanders — Michael Moore really likes, and has great respect for, Hillary Clinton. That’s a paradox too. And I accept it.
Why Obama and Democrats are rapidly becoming dead to me. Silence in the face of the destruction of the Constitution. Complicity in the destruction of the Constitution.
Kelly Hayes, Transformative Spaces: Don’t Be Passive Observers of Last Night’s Terrorization in Standing Rock: Here’s What You Can Do
Equal justice under law, my ass. A corporation is going forward despite not having a legal permit. The President is bullshitting the community he spoke to at their powwow in 2015.
In America, it is now OK to use continuous application of Mace, tear gas, rubber bullets, LRAD sounds, and water cannon (even in sub-freezing temperatures) to suppress the 1st Amendment rights of people petitioning the government to stop pollution while the corporation is allowed to continue its construction. Corporations now rule our lives in fact. Trump only makes it formal.
This list makes it absolutely clear that the oppression of the people of Stand Rock Reservation is being carried on out of a US Department of Homeland Fusion Center, likely out of Minneapolis. Why are these out-of-state law enforcement agencies even there if not for federal-state-local coordination of this “war”.
Witness how you will be treated in the future.
I think this is a cogent prognosis but with an addition: Did any president come into office with a significant portion of his own party hating him? Not just disagreeing on policy but literally despising him?
The closest that comes to mind is Carter’s arrival in Washington with his Georgia crew. I was young then and didn’t know the reality but I had a sense that Carter’s perceived outsiderness was a hindrance when working with Congress. He may have been mocked as a Southerner but at least he wasn’t despised.
Corollary to the prognosis. One of my biggest fears of the Trump administration–and I have many–is that his crew, especially Bannon, will understand how 9/11 turned Dubya sinking poll numbers around. And before that, how Reagan’s ridiculous Grenada invasion gave him a bump in the polls.
When Trump’s ability to get anything done or the rejection of Trump comes to a crisis point–and it will–I fear that his crew will instigate or fabricate a national emergency. Perhaps it will be the impending probability of impeachment and removal that will be the trigger. Which hapless country or minority group will be his victim?
Acquiescent, non-skeptical media will channel Trump’s propaganda and the country will split even more than it is now. And then he starts violating Constitutional and civil rights even more so than is done today.
Perhaps it won’t be that extreme but the formula seems like something that Trump, Bannon, et al, would endorse without qualms.
“… his crew, especially Bannon, will understand how 9/11 turned Dubya sinking poll numbers around.”
I thought of that myself for the first time last night, because it goes along with jacking up the fear of terrorism. According to Godwin’s law, which Bannon seems to follow very closely, a Reichstag Fire might be just the thing.
Yes, I know I’m tweaking the meaning of “Godwin’s Law” a little, but I think that’s appropriate at this point.
This election has left us needing a new generation of civil rights leaders. I would think Obama may feel a moral imperative to step into that role.
Yep, it appears so. White House loyalists want their guy in at DNC.
(NYT link) Iron Law of Institutions
Curious to see Perez in the WH mix, given that his signature accomplishment is now a garbage fire.