I’ll be writing long pieces on this later, but for right now I’ll be relatively brief. I enjoyed E.J. Dionne’s column today and I appreciate his level headedness and basic decency.
One thing Democrats need to do is to understand the scope and nature of their problem. They just ran a presidential election in which they got more votes. They ran house elections in which they got more votes. I’m not sure about the overall Senate tally (it’s distorted because only a third of the Senate was up for reelection, and that third was tilted red), but they gained a couple of seats. The Democrats have a lot of support. Their problem is the shape of their support.
The challenge is not just to sustain and hopefully grow their plurality base of voters, but to change the demographic nature of their supporters. This is why you’ll hear people like me say that the Democrats absolutely cannot ignore that they lost 75%-80% of the white vote in county after county in Pennsylvania and the Upper Midwest. This is the kind of racial voting we’ve seen in the South for years, and if it becomes the norm in the North it will make it impossible for the Democrats to win control of state legislatures in that region, make it nearly impossible to win back the U.S. House of Representatives, and give the Republicans a narrow opening to win the Electoral College with a minority of the popular vote, again.
A lot of people do not like the sound of that. But I don’t care how it sounds. It isn’t a value statement or an assessment of worth. It’s just a diagnosis of a problem. How you solve it, if it can be solved, is what ought to be controversial. The fact that it needs to be solved should not.
To be clear, this isn’t a matter of changing the party so that it abandons its preexisting base on civil, women’s or gay rights. The goal does not need to be to win white rural counties that have socially conservative values and a strong skepticism about the federal government. Obama didn’t win most of those counties. In fact, he struggled to get 30% of the vote in most of them. But he won two presidential elections with relative ease, and he carried the House with him in the first one. So, this is about reestablishing some support in areas where it totally collapsed in 2016, not about selling anyone out.
My concern is that things like this have a momentum of their own, and voting behaviors can easily become entrenched. There’s something fundamentally different about a community that will give 30%-35% of its votes to the Democrats and one which will only give them 15%-20%. In the latter case, voting Democrat is almost antisocial. If you live in a major city or a college town, you know how culturally suspect it is to be an outspoken Republican. The same type of thing (in reverse) in our northern exurbs and rural areas is what developed this year, and it basically describes what caught most everyone by surprise, including the pollsters and both campaigns.
This should be treated as a major threat to the left. It’s a full blown crisis.
On the one hand, we’re talking about winning back only 10%-15% of the white working class/rural vote, which doesn’t sound all that daunting. On the other hand, it could prove as impossible to do as winning 25% of the white vote in Alabama or Mississippi.
But, unless the left is content to be a permanent minority in state legislatures and in Congress, and to lose presidential elections it should win, it has to solve this problem.
And part of solving it is in understanding how certain decisions and behaviors from the Democratic base made it easier for Trump to convince the white people in these counties that the Democrats were hostile and not on their side. I mean, this is a big challenge in any case, but the least we can do is not make it more difficult through our own myopic reaction.
Whenever anyone tries to discuss these uncomfortable truths, it invites a defensive response that is understandable but typically unhelpful. It’s natural to pile contempt on people who thought Donald Trump is competent to serve as the president of the United States. It’s normal to be outraged when folks vote for a guy who disrespected every vulnerable community in the country and who promised to oppress and harass them. But a huge number of those folks voted for Obama once (or even twice) before voting for Trump. Those are the folks we need back. The rest we never had, can’t get, and probably don’t want.
The left will need imaginative political leaders and strategists, but the rest of us can get started by simply refusing to do Trump’s work for him. And that’s not easy, because we can be easily provoked and react with thoughtless and self-destructive behaviors.
As much as possible, we need to avoid that.
Do muppets like Peter Daou understand how bad of shape the Democratic Party is in at the state level, much less the House of Representatives? It doesn’t seem so since he’s continuing to shit on Sanders primary voters. And the other thing he doesn’t understand is that a Clinton win would have made it all the more a Potemkin Village. And that extends to certain Obama people, like Dan Pfeiffer, who are against Keith Ellison as DNC chair. They spent the past 8 years ignoring party building and now they think they know what is best
Democratic House leadership has an average age of 72. They don’t plan to change anything; they are expecting Bush-level failure to elevate them again, I think. Plus die-off.
I don’t think they will get a replay of the Obama-faith from voters. And gender did not do it this time. TINA, anyone?
What they plan for the states is gonna be hobbled by DNC big donor fatigue and frustration, but maybe the rump lefties can do something apart from the DNC.
The Hill: Tired Dem donors feel like their money got burned
“Investors” is the correct word to describe HRC big-money donors. Guess they figured that enough money would overcome a bad product.
Democratic insiders worried? Of course not.
iirc, copying GOP electoral strategies, policies, and institutions is at the root of why Democrats have more often than not been routed since 1994. Doubling down on a loser is how the national DP rolls these days.
Wonder if that recognition was a factor in Becerra leaving Congress to become Calif. attorney general.
In a functional political climate, Becerra would have been viewed as a top contender to the US Senate. Alas, he didn’t have a President talking about how hot he is. He locked horns with the Congressional Hispanic Caucus over spending money to trash Trump over using it to fund Hispanic candidates. Becerra’s point was that it would be wasted on Trump-trash-talk. He lost the argument. (And he was a Clinton surrogate and active on her behalf in the campaign.)
Becerra is fifty-eight years old and only now (or very recently) been labeled a “rising star.” The Democratic bench is old, old, old and not getting any younger.
It appears most comments except yours are ignoring the significance of the “product.” Getting a win is going to be a gamble, even if the opposition seems worse.
The Edsel candidate — crafted to perfection over two decades by teams of engineers and designers. Overpriced and outdated when it hit the marketplace. The Corvair one in the popularity contest with the Edsel.
I found this quote from a Balloon Juice poster the other day to be thought provoking:
For fuck’s sake, we look at Republicans trying to privatize things like the Post Office and we throw a fit… or do we? Is that still a thing?
And yet we’re willing to swallow crap like this.
No, infrastructure will not be built in the cities forcing people to relocate because economics. [LOL, nor because…”markets”, either.]
Economics can goddamned well follow what’s good for the country, and that’s extending infrastructure to everywhere we have people, like we’ve done many times in the past. We can be decentralized. There is no good reason not to be, this is the future, remember? We have the internet, even if it’s way poorer than that in third world countries because it’s all privatized now and the third world countries leapfrogged over a bunch of infrastructure?
When we get so that people WILLINGLY move back to small towns because there’s as much opportunity there, and find that the small towns are seeing more hope and prepared to be civilized in order to attract city-refugee settlers, that’s when we will have won this battle. The notion of economically-driven forced migration to miserable conditions in huge cities just to survive is a dystopia and should be treated as such.
Also, Vox writer Timothy Lee has a couple posts up.
http://www.vox.com/new-money/2016/11/28/13736656/small-towns-decline-bad
“One of the things that brought me to this topic is looking at the effects of immigration. You have all these arguments about why immigration is positive, and how there are important spillovers for population growth from immigration. I realized, well isn’t there another side of this coin? If gaining population causes positive spillovers, then losing population should have negative spillovers.
[…]
Also, if you think that having a skilled population matters for having a skilled government, you’re going to have large parts of the country that aren’t well-governed. When we vote for federal policy, this is going to have some effect there too. There’s some not-so-subtle parallels to what we’re seeing right now.”
When we get so that people WILLINGLY move back to small towns because there’s as much opportunity there, and find that the small towns are seeing more hope and prepared to be civilized in order to attract city-refugee settlers, that’s when we will have won this battle. The notion of economically-driven forced migration to miserable conditions in huge cities just to survive is a dystopia and should be treated as such.
Who in their right mind is going to flee a productive urban area to live out in the middle of nowhere? How could it ever be possible to have as much opportunity in a small town with a small population as it is in a big city with a large population? What kind of person prefers to drive 20 miles just to engage in basic social interaction with others? Any policy that encourages forced migration out of our cosmopolitan centers into the hinterlands is a dystopian nightmare. In fact, such policies were exactly what destroyed a lot of rust belt cities, creating urban ghettos and sundown towns and stealing the wealth of the city centers for the short-term benefit of the white suburban commuter, at terrible long-term cost.
The fact is that our urban areas are already transferring massive amounts of wealth to sustain our rural areas and it’s still not enough, because by their very nature low-population areas are less productive and less desirable to live in. Businesses don’t want to locate there and anyone with the opportunity flees as soon as possible. The last thing we need to do is exacerbate the problem.
Then how do you intend to select YOUR voters so you can win elections in “fly-over” country?
I expect Democrats in rural areas to advocate for the interests of their constituents. Ideally through robust support of social insurance programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, etc. Free Public education. Infrastructure investment. Progressive taxation. Regulation of finance. The exact same issues that appeal to people in the cities as well. The core economic message of the Democratic Party from FDR through LBJ to Obama. Each politician should also have their own policy preferences tailored to the district they’re running to represent. But on a national level if you intend to elevate the interests of the rural voter above those of the urban and dense-suburban voter my response is hell no.
A few strategically placed cross-burnings.
OK, it’s antithetical to everything Democrats stand for, but if the alternative is to keep losing, I say give them what they want.
Just win, baby.
Less productive? Where are mines located? How about oil wells? And then there are ranches, farms and orchards. Watersheds and reservoirs. Timber.
I live in a rural county, and there is a lot of in-migration going on. Not that those of us who chose a rural lifestyle are happy about that, but many rural towns in the west are gaining population, not losing it because people are fed up with congestion and traffic, among attributes of urban life. Unfortunately, most of these gains come from people who are retired or close to it, so the job opportunities for young people are still limited or low paying (retail, tourism) or not sustainable (construction).
Yes. Less productive.
I understand higher GDP, but there would be no manufacturing or value added activities in urban areas if not for the raw materials provided by rural areas.
And how much food and fresh water do urban areas produce? Without upstate NY, NYC would be an urban wasteland.
Obviously the resource production and extraction from rural areas is a necessary part of the economy. Nobody would deny that.
And actually, NYC would be just fine without upstate NY. NYC could import raw materials from Australia if they needed to. NYC is rich as fuck.
Since I live in upstate NY I’m happy that they don’t do that, because they subsidize the rest of us both through buying our goods and services and paying a disproportionate amount of our taxes, and we’d be totally fucked as a state without them.
Resource extraction is among the most simple-to-automate segments of the economy.
Cf. the difference between Powder River basin coal, and Appalachian coal.
Resource extraction’s not going to save the day.
BJ became the heart of “clap louder” darkness. Anyone with half a brain could see Hillary was always going to have a problem connecting because she was kind of part of the problem (though she got better as she went along) but all they wanted to hear was Bernie cost us the election.
He was the only one of the original 4 Dem candidates who connected with those voters AND young urban types. Thank god our smart elders dutifully lined up to vote for her during the primary assuring us (still even) that Bernie couldn’t win. She clearly was the best choice….. :-/
Even a blind mole could tell that our best chances this cycle were Bernie, Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren. And two of them got “bargained” out of running before the race even started.
Definitely needing imaginative leaders and strategists. But that 700 million the Kochs spent downballot is frightening.
Never the less my parents Dem state rep in a county that went narrowly for Trump crushed his Koch backed challenger so it can be done.
You write:
Strategically you are quite right.
Tactically, however, you are not.
Many of these voters voted for Obama in his two elections. They were fairly stalwart Dems, but not so stalwart that…if they were virulent racists…they would have voted for a black president. They voted for someone that they thought would help them, as do almost all voters. When 7 or 8 years went by and their economic and social positions continued to go down the rust belt/farm belt toilet, they latched on to someone who promised them…just as had Obama…a better life. Trump’s promises were white-oriented and anti-minority, and many of these people bit. They thought…with some appreciable amount of accuracy… that they had been jettisoned (“deplorabled” might be a better word after HRC’s monstrous gaffe) by the Democratic Party in a search for a coalition of college-educated/middle class/upper class/urban/suburban/ whites, minority racial blocs and minority social blocs…LGBT, etc.
They didn’t like it.
Not even little.
And then? Along came Trump selling his alt. right line…”You’ve been DISSED by these people!!!” Many of them bit.
If the Dems want to get this group back, they need to approach them as if they too are an under-represented minority. A great BIG one!!! A minority that shares the same problem as all of the other so-called “minorities”. The totality of such a coalition is in and of itself not a minority, but rather a substantial majority.
Until the Dems realize this…that the Trump vote was a reactionary vote, a reaction to under-representation of a large group by the whole sociocultural construct of the still present Democratic Party, not strictly a racist vote…then the Dems are going to lose and lose and lose, at least until the mask comes off of Trump’s shit show and it fails its voters as well. And that could take years.
Or…it could happen the day after tomorrow.
We shall see.
Dems gotta wise up.
All of us are a “minorities” to the controllers. Minor cogs in their great wheel of progress towards total control.
They must be stopped!!!
Will the Dems wise up in time?
I certainly hope so, but the re-election of Nancy Pelosi as Dem House leader and the continued power of Charles Schumer, Dianne Feinstein et al in the party gives me serious pause.
Later…
AG
Like dat.
long story short?
Sure.
Elitist prigs took over the Democratic Party.
Oust them.
AG
Bernie had a message that resonated with the disaffected as well as the young and still hopeful.
In my rural county our caucuses went 65% for Bernie. Nearly every Colorado county went well over 50% for Bernie. However, most of Colorado’s super delegates were campaigning for Hillary 6 or more months before the caucuses. Clear message that they didn’t give a rat’s behind what the rest of us thought.
Furthermore, Hillary had no presence here, unlike Obama who had a field office and took the county by a few dozen votes. Hillary lost by over 500 votes.
Needless to say we have many disaffected Democrats here, including yours truly. Some of us are discussing how we can either shake up the Democratic Party and/or provide resources and support to non-party organizations that work for our issues. I’ve already re-registered, as have some of my friends.
(or the other varieties of deplorable bigots) into any party/coalition/movement I consider myself part of.
I just won’t.
It’s where I draw the line.
I consider this a moral imperative.
Feel free to characterize this as “a defensive response that is understandable but typically unhelpful” or “thoughtless and self-destructive behaviors”.
I. Don’t. Care.
I realize you didn’t advocate doing so, at least not directly. That said, it’s also not so clear what your more nuanced take would actually entail . . . very short on any details. If you agree with me that embracing deplorable bigots is beyond the pale, then what’s your discriminant function? Perhaps that comes in the longer treatments you promised. I’ll be interested to see that.
The problem is the people who voted for Obama twice, then voted trump are not racists. Don’t buy into that bullshit. Hell, an article above thread even shows how Hillary lost ground among rural Latinos.
She lost ground amongst Blacks too. A big warning sign should have been when Bernie stated doing better with minorities in the midwest during the primaries. He even won MI.
Remember this: Those voters are OUR voters and we need to take them back!
Do you know what the Democratic response to the NAFTA exacerbated destruction of entire industries in the Midwest is?
Job training.
ITT Tech got you covered dawg :-/ lol
Man, if i was a white dude, i’d tell them to gtfoh with that shit too. The problem is republicans have even less of a solution. They just lie and say that they will bring the jobs back.
The party allowed Hillary to corner the primary before it even started. Knowing FULL WELL that people across the Midwest don’t like Hillary for NAFTA related reasons.
No, it wasn’t racism that flipped those voters.
Which, my friend, means they are reachable in the future. There is hope.
Beyond voters in many parts of country disliking Hillary – whether for unsound or sound reasons – the Dem party has done next to nothing to reach out urban and rural poor. It’s not just white working class MEN, who are suffering. It’s the working class.
It’s continued to irritate me how much attention was paid by the propaganda media to WWC men. Let’s focus on the working class, and while we’re at it, let’s focus on those slipping further down and out of the middle class.
I have several hard working friends currently holding down not two, but three jobs. Their day job – which is a decent one these days – simply doesn’t pay enough to cover their needs. So they need 2 pt jobs to make up the difference.
While Trump definitely riled up racism and normalized it, a lot of his voters aren’t racist, or at least not overtly so. As indicated, a significant cohort of minorities, including Latinos, voted for Trump because they were desparate. The Ds did NOTHING for them. They watched Wall St get bailed out, while they lost their houses and jobs. What did the Ds do? I don’t think they could be bothered to shrug.
The Democratic party used to be the party representing the working class, but since the 90s and the rise of the Clintons, not so much. IMO, Hillary was running to right of Trump’s rhetoric. I agree completely that Trump is a giant liar, but Clinton ran a crummy campaign where she didn’t bother to visit key critical states and hold rallies and really TALK TO voters there. Trump did that. Look who won.
Yes, Clinton had some nice policies on her website, and sometimes during the debates, she referred to her website. That’s not enough.
I hold out little hope, however, that the D party will ever be bothered to condescend to the working class. Hillary was too interested in reaching out to Republicans to vote for her. She basically ignored (or worse) Sanders’ voters. She called Trump supporters deplorable. How much clearer does the D party have to be to exhibit their disdain for a significant cohort of citizens, many of whom are truly suffering. And they’re not all racists.
I’m not holding my breath for Empress Pelosi or Ceasar Schumer to much of anything for these citizens. It’s clear who they serve, and the working class ain’t it.
“I have several hard working friends currently holding down not two, but three jobs. Their day job – which is a decent one these days – simply doesn’t pay enough to cover their needs. So they need 2 pt jobs to make up the difference. ”
This times a million my friend. I’m shocked that the Dems are ignoring this issue. (Repbs are too of course)
When Bush was President, he touted his job creation. Dems responded by labeling them “McJobs”. Essentially work that couldn’t pay the bills.
I love Obama. But how many of the jobs he and others tout about creating are jobs that really can’t pay the bills?
I know there isn’t an easy solution. This is a problem with capitalism in general. A problem that is sweeping across the west. However, Dems (and EU leaders for that matter) need to ACKNOWLEDGE this issue.
Dems need to lead on this and become the party of big ideas again. A NEW “New Deal” for example. If you can’t solve it, then at least propose a comprehensive safety net.
One of the reasons i liked Bernie was that he repeated his mantra every chance he got: Multinational Corporations are ruining this country”
If i were Pres, my New Deal would be universal Healthcare. Universal Housing. Universal Food. If the game of Capitalism isn’t working properly, then we’re going to make sure no one falls off the table.
I’m not sure of the particulars of how we’d get to this point. But if i were President, i’d establish that this is the vision for this country, and in fact this planet, for the 21st century. Like our Presidents stated goal of a manned mission to Mars. And i’d make sure that every Dem elected official began and ended every speech with it.
Give the people something to believe in. A reason to vote for the Democrats in general and not just against the “crazy” Republican.
No.
She did not.
Facts matter.
She called “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic — you name it” deplorable.
They are!
She noted, accurately, that these deplorables were disproportionately represented among Trump’s supporters.
They were!
Worse, this wasn’t any accident, coincidental, just random assortment, the luck of the draw, i.e., they had to end up somewhere: he appealed to and incited them, nakedly and blatantly, by scapegoating The Other for encroaching on the white privilege some of them saw as their right, but saw (or imagined) themselves losing to The Other (regardless how inaccurate that is).
And they rejoiced in the license this granted them to quit hiding behind dogwhistles and come out of their bigot closets, proclaiming their “alt-right”ness loud and proud (including Trump’s “Strategist”-designate Bannon).
The ongoing effort to normalize/excuse/disappear all that (including by, but not limited to, the media) shocks and appalls me.
You’re probably correct, but basically that’s what voters heard who were supporting Trump. That they were considered deplorable by Clinton.
We can dance on a head of a pin all day long, but unless or until the Democratic party begins to pay real attention to the suffering of working class people, we might as well be prepared to be ruled by a completely Republican Party nation until the end of time.
Many of Trump voters are not racists, nor are the misogynists.
Get over these labels and look at what’s happening in many parts of the country. People are really suffering. They took a chance with the other party bc they didn’t see any clear evidence that either Hillary or the Democratic party was going to help them.
I don’t blame them. Hillary ran a crap campaign and went after Republican voters, rather than those working class voters who voted for Obama. Are those citizens who voted for Obama but now voted for Trump all racists?
Think about it.
You’re probably correct, but basically that’s what voters heard who were supporting Trump. That they were considered deplorable by Clinton.
We can dance on a head of a pin all day long, but unless or until the Democratic party begins to pay real attention to the suffering of working class people, we might as well be prepared to be ruled by a completely Republican Party nation until the end of time.
Many of Trump voters are not racists, nor are the misogynists.
Get over these labels and look at what’s happening in many parts of the country. People are really suffering. They took a chance with the other party bc they didn’t see any clear evidence that either Hillary or the Democratic party was going to help them.
I don’t blame them. Hillary ran a crap campaign and went after Republican voters, rather than those working class voters who voted for Obama. Are those citizens who voted for Obama but now voted for Trump all racists?
Think about it.
No. They’re misogynists.
You can hold onto those labels, or you can actually look at what’s happened to this third world nation and realize that people are desparate.
Are some racist and sexist, etc? Most definitely.
Are ALL Trump voters that way?? NO.
Continuing to cling and grasp to how horrible, terrible “those people” are will get us nowhere fast. There are clear reasons why many minorities and women voted for Trump. They felt desparate. They took a chance on a change. The D party let them down… hard.
The truth of an assertion is an airtight affirmative defense against a charge of libel, last I looked.
And approximately no one has claimed otherwise.
The very substantial (and, I posit, decisive) bloc who ARE “that way” may not be be disappeared, though. Not if I have anything to say about it. (Again, there’s a reason all the “analysis” and punditry says the “white working class” put Trump over the top. “White” is in there for good reason. Very good reason. Aside from bigotry/racism and resentment over lost white privilege to which they feel entitled, the economic difficulties and uncertainties experienced by that WWC don’t differ from those of the plain “working class”, unless perhaps by being actually less severe [don’t have data handy to back that up, but would bet if such data were available it would support that premise]; the white resentment flows from the sense of loss of that superior, privileged position they believe is their birthright, even though [I presume] they remain privileged relative to the rest of their working-class cohort . . . just not as relatively privileged as they used to feel — and that enrages them) .
RUK – I think you are on the right track.
We all agree that some of Trump’s supporters were some kind of “ist” – racist, misogynist, whatever.
But those “ists” were not the reason Trump won.
He won because a lot of good people could not be convinced to vote for Trump OR Clinton.
As long as we run around thinking Clinton lost because a lot of ists responded to Trump’s clarion call, we will not look for and find the reasons for why so many people did not vote.
I think many people did not vote because in their life experience over the last thirty years their lives have not been appreciably improved by EITHER party.
absolutely correct.
Here is a simple wedge issue that Democrats should jump on:
Banning self driving vehicles in interstate commerce.
The leading job in most states is truck driving, especially for Whites Without College degrees. If Democrats introduce a bill, you can almost count on Republicans to oppose it via Cleek’s Law. “Big Gubmint Reg’lations!”
Put it to a lot of rural and exurban voters: Your vote for your job.
I oppose this utterly. We don’t need Potemkin jobs in Potemkin communities. We need actual productive jobs. If it gets to the point that truck driving isn’t a productive job we need to deal with that fact rather than ignore it.
I’m reminded of the classic essay “Donner Party Conservatism“, where John Holbo eviscerates David Frum’s vision of conservatism as a philosophy that’s perfectly content to immiserate in the service of goals that are actually just aesthetic. An economy that produces real jobs or failing that provides a real living is necessary. A political economy that makes fake jobs like some Plymouth Plantation reenactment society is not a healthy or successful environment for anyone. John quotes Orwell’s The Road to Wigan Pier-
So to the politics of the Democratic party- Providing jobs is important. Providing income (say via basic income) is more fundamental. But providing pretty-pretty make-work jobs is condescending, intellectually incoherent, and a recipe for economic stagnation and falling standard of living.
Because trucking is such a major source of employment serious effort needs to be devoted to crafting a policy response to automation. But banning automation (assuming that it is in fact safe) is not a defensible response.
I am waiting for robot doctor. He should be quite cheap.
Maybe robot lawyer…
They’re coming. They’re all coming.
All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace.
In what universe is driving a truck a “Potemkin job”? That’s kind of reeking of condescension.
Or put another way, what ISN’T a “Potemkin job”? Driving a truck is a decent living and decent work. There’s workplace autonomy and for many a living wage.
If you want to create a crisis by letting most working class jobs disappear, then be prepared for a lot more figures like Trump. Revolutions inevitably empower strongmen and dictators.
Potemkin jobs are pretty-pretty arty-farty jobs we maintain by law because they wouldn’t exist otherwise.
Absolutely. Autonomous vehicles are not only dangerous, but they are unpredictable.
But, here is my prediction: As long as there are 50 cal sniper rifles, there will not be autonomous long-haul trucks. People are going to take those trucks out.
“…understanding how certain decisions and behaviors from the Democratic base made it easier for Trump to convince the white people in these counties that the Democrats were hostile and not on their side.”
Well, Dem base has called them names, which got their backs up. But so what?
Dem policies have infuriated them. Especially policies that illustrate the two-tiered justice system discussed in your last thread–the housing crisis and Wall Street impunity. That was up close and personal.
It’s a hopeless situation until the right wing near-monopoly in rural news distribution is broken. What this election proved is that it’s impossible to defeat bullshit with reason when all the trusted media sources by a local population spout nothing but bullshit.
I think that media consolidation is, as much as anything, the cause of the mass insanity infecting rural and working class America today. I’m old enough to remember when those folks got their news from sources who supported them and their causes, be it the daily newspapers in farm states, or working class newspapers in cities big enough to support them. Now they get their news from national and international sources who have contempt for them and their causes, who have told them over and over again that fulfilling their needs would be bad policy at best, and unpatriotic at worst. So, feeling hopeless about their stations in life, and trusting the only news they ever really see, hear or read, they turn their despair into anger at the only people left: the powerless, the intellectuals, the liberals who would champion their causes if only they’d break free from their collective brainwashing.
The right wing control over news dissemination among poor whites needs to be broken up. Until that happens, we’re stuck with Trumpism.
It’s all in this Crooks and Liars article
If you expect to carve out 10% then maybe it’s doable. But these voters have been voting against their own self interest for years. They are never going to change.
They keep voting for locals that then shit all over them. They vote for people who make local life so sub par companies don’t want to be there.
.
I think this is being overthought. I think, however, that the people who tap into the word “elitist” are onto something. First off, this was an anomaly. Personally I like and admire Hillary Clinton very much, despite some of her policy flubs– but I also admit that she comes off as stiff and formal. Study after study is showing that among those who disliked both, Trump won. Part of that may be due to some jealous nihilism on the part of the white voters, but part is that his boorishness came off as authentic.
Want to beat Trump? Find a candidate who frequently tosses off four-letter words, calls Trump a puppet dumb-ass, and labels the entire republican apparatus as con artists out to fleece good-thinking folks. Yeah, some in rural America will be aghast (though they weren’t at Trump), but Joe Sixpack with a gun collection might be liable to listen to someone who unapologetically talks to him in his language. I’m not sure who that is. Obama, reached people like that when he wasn’t engaged in oratorical brilliance. John Edwards occasionally had it (without the coarse mean streak). To tell you the truth, the closest we may have in the public eye right now is Michael Moore.
Fight fire with fire. Not hate, just aggression. The losing candidate with more of the votes has a pretty bright husband who said what is an absolute truth regarding American politics: “The American people prefer a candidate who is wrong but seems strong to a candidate who is right but seems weak.”
No reason we can’t have strong and right.
The question is would the media let a Democrat do something like that? It’s pretty common that something a Republican might do or say that sounds authentic would get a Democrat burned at the stake.
I don’t know if a candidate has to engage in that style of rhetoric. I think a lot of it has to do with going out and talking to these people where they live.
Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama ran much smarter campaigns, where they held lots of rallies, plus meet & greets with voters in what’s called the Rust Belt.
That’s where Trump mainly campaigned, and to give the man his due (which I don’t want to), he worked his butt off holding 6, 7, 8 rallies per day in lots of small working towns around mid-section of the country.
A significant cohort of Obama voters from this region voted for Trump. Why? 1. Because Obama did nothing to help them, despite his campaign promises, 2. Because they saw Clinton as more of the same as Obama, and 3. Because Clinton didn’t bother to campaign there and tell them what she planned to do for them.
IMO, a signifcant reason why Clinton lost had more to do with the fact that she chose to campaign in places like TX and AZ, rather MI, WI, Ohio, Colorado & PA. This isn’t rocket science, and I’m no political campaign guru, but I couldn’t believe how crappy Clinton’s campaign was. Seriously.
Of course, it would be helpful, to say the least, if the Democratic party actually DID something for the working classes, but I won’t hold my breath on that one.
I cut the campaign some slack, all the polls said that WI, MI and PA were basically locks. OH was a toss up and IA was going for Trump. Those other states were leaning Dem and she was trying to help down ticket too to try and get a majority.
There was a big failure in polling, and I’m sure her internal polling said similar things. We can look at what happened on election day and easily say, hey why didn’t you spend more time there but during the actual campaign it didn’t make sense to based on the polling that everyone saw.
We have to agree to disagree. I was concerned very early on that Clinton was NOT going to those states. I heard rumors – unsubstantiated but written in various places – that Bill argued strongly that Hillary really needed to focus on what’s called the Rust Belt. Hillary and her advisors refused. Allegedly, Bill got very upset bc he knew that she should be focusing on the economy.
I read this several times during the campaign.
As I watched Trump traveling to these states, while Clinton didn’t, it was evident to me – I’m some nobody – that Clinton was making a BIG mistake ignoring these states.
I cut her no slack. Clinton simply wasn’t interested in poor people. She wanted to appeal to urban and suburban elites. She hoped that Republican women would cross over and voter for her based on her gender. She talked about that. It was STUPID. Hardly any Republicans crossed over, but more Democratic voters did cross over and vote for Trump.
I simply FAIL to see how any Democratic politician could have the hubris to believe that many Republicans would vote for a Clinton… or ANY Democrat for that matter. Republicans are trained from birth to hate, loathe and despise Democrats.
Gimme a break. Clinton had 16 frickin years to prepare for this and she BLEW it. Royally. She deserved to lose.
…he worked his butt off holding 6, 7, 8 rallies per day in lots of small working towns around mid-section of the country.
Do you have a copy of Trump’s appearance schedule throughout the campaign? No way could he routinely hold 6, 7, 8 fly in, appear, and fly out rallies a day. During the primary it was closer to one or two appearances a day and the work week was no more than five days. Recall, he prefers to sleep in his own NYC bed at night.
Far more downtime was built into Clinton’s appearance/travel schedule. A rough day for her was a TV appearance, a rally, and a fundraiser. Generally, her schedule was limited to one or two shows per day and a couple of rest days per week. Whether that was calibrated to avoid problems exhibited by previous older presidential candidates or it was the limits of her physical stamina is unlikely ever to be known.
The workhorse in this electoral cycle was Sanders. He ran rings around both Clinton and Trump.
I this exchange in Chicago right after the election says all we need to know about the problem facing democrats.
“You know this is why Trump won,” Officer Jason Lenski said after one protester asked where his KKK hood was. “Because people are sick of liberals.”
It really isn’t any more complicated than that. They hate us. We hate them. And everyone knows it.
That’s true to a degree, but you are falling into the trap of ignoring the economy. Many Obama voters crossed over to vote for Trump bc they are desparate. I fully believe that if Clinton had run a better campaign, they would have voted for her, and she would have run.
It’s the Economy, stupid (not aimed at you, if you’re too young – I don’t know – to remember Bill Clinton’s campaign).
The Democratic party needs to pay attention to and seek to help the working classes. They are desparate. It goes beyond tribal hatreds.
I agree. There was a sizable F U element to people’s vote for Trump.
He blew up the Republican AND the Democratic establishment. Cause all those primary votes were FUs , too.
absolutely
that’s Chicago. not rural
Counties That Changed Party In The 2016 US Presidential Election VS 2012
2016 US Presidential Election Map By County & Vote Share
Look at both of these maps. What is striking is that the intensity of the map by county and vote share shows that the Republicans won by upping the share of the vote where they already controlled the field – in red or dark red counties.
There are very few flipped counties outside of the Quad Cities area of IA-IL-MN-WI. That looks like the epicenter of a major blast. And then there’s the North Woods of Minnesota and Maine.
Only three counties in Pennsylvania flipped. Most of the counties in the South that flipped (outside of Florida) are or are near black majority counties and within black majority Congressional Districts.
What I’m seeing in the pattern in the Midwest is the loss of small towns that used to have a manufacturing base in something, a couple of plants as major employers for the county. That’s gone, and the lucky counties get state facilities or private prisons or the people there commute 50-60 miles one way to work in cities and back each day.
Two counties in southeastern NC are in the area of the unionized Smithfield Foods plant, and might also have animosity against Hispanic migrants who got jobs at the plant and are farm labor.
My guess is there is no one-size-fits-all position that Democrats need to take to gain back rural votes.
What I know is that capitulation in the “culture wars” risks losing as many votes elsewhere as one would gain in rural areas.
The math is like this to flip the state:
Okahoma (statewide) 19% from R to D
Alabama (statewide) 14% from R to D
Lets look at some of the worst counties:
Wyoming Co, WV, 4009 votes or 35%.
Waukesha Co. WI, 26,700 votes or 14%
Anderson Co. SC, 17,500 votes or 22%
Wyoming Co. WV is in coal-mining country.
Waukesha Co. SC is a white-flight suburban ring county of Milwaukee
Anderson Co. SC is a commuting city for the Greenville-Spartanburg auto industry complex; it used to be a substantial textile mill town.
The worst results in Pennsylvania were from Bedford Co PA.
It will take movement of 8000 voters from R to D to flip Bedford county, a shift of 34% of the vote.
The economy seems to be based on manufacturing and is marketing itself as in the I-99 corridor of advanced manufacturing.
The problem that Democrats tend to have in thinking about rural areas is stereotypes about what rural areas are. One of the worst is that the most rural areas are the most Republican and that winability declines with the population density.
Let’s be clear about rural perceptions of the Democratic base. For the most part, the right-wing media provides those perceptions. Stereotypes run both ways. And Trump played on right-wing media tropes everywhere he went. And Hillary Clinton in the way she conducted her campaign and debates played right into those tropes, no matter how much her base cheered at the time.
And by the way, there are more than white folks in a lot of those rural areas. And that makes for a very delicate balancing act for Democrats unless they figure a way to get all of the folks working together.
How hard can it be? Trump saves jobs in Indiana. When did the democrats or Obama even talk about it? And when companies move our of the country to save taxes, what is the response? And they stash billions off shore to escape taxes. It has been clear for years that trade deals are not popular. They are blamed for taking good paying jobs out of the country. And what is the democrats response to it? More TPP. Sanders talked about inequality and got a large following. Populism is afoot but the democrats nominate a queen. How often did you hear talk or demands for $15 an hour? Or a large infrastructure program? Or help for student debts? Lets be honest here. Obamacare premiums and deductibles do not work for young working people. Why not fix it? you would almost thing the democrats support large corporations. And now we have another aging queen in the House. This sort of shit does not go unnoticed.
Republican pass bill to gut Dodd-Frank regulation of financial industry.
These Vichy Democrats vote with Republicans:
20 Democrats joined Republicans in voting for it:
Brad Ashford (NE-02)
Joyce Beatty (OH-03)
Sanford Bishop (GA-02)
Jim Cooper (TN-05)
Jim Costa (CA-16)
Henry Cuellar (TX-28)
John Delaney (MD-06)
Gene Green (TX-29)
Brian Higgins (NY-26)
Sheila Jackson Lee (TX-18)
Dan Lipinski (IL-03)
Gregory Meeks (NY-05)
Patrick Murphy (FL-18)
Donald Payne (NJ-10)
Scott Peters (CA-52)
Collin Peterson (MN-07)
David Scott (GA-13)
Terri Sewell (AL-07)
Kyrsten Sinema (AZ-09)
Albio Sires (NJ-08)
Tell me again about how Democrats are going to stand up for the interests of rural voters. Guess who is likely to be on the list of defeated Democrats in 2018. This bunch gets smaller and smaller each cycle. They are the ones set up to lose to “real Republicans”. They are voting their constituents’ opinions, which have been shaped by astro-turf communication efforts. They might as well be Republicans.
Floridians were given a choice between the fake Democrat Murphy and a lazy, self-styled real Republican (doesn’t do enough actual work to know if he represents anything other than orthodox Republicanism and can spout rightwing and religious soundbites), and they went with the guy that hates his Senate job.
Murphy’s vacated House seat has been filled by a Republican. So, that’s one less fake Democrat for liberals to kick around.
” … things like this have a momentum of their own, and voting behaviors can easily become entrenched.”
Two points
lines of communication, yes,