Reading Nate Cohn’s analysis of how the Obama coalition crumbled gave me a sick feeling in the stomach. It confirmed my first take on the election returns, but it showed that things are worse than I suspected.
Obviously, the pre-election polls were of no help to me. Clinton led in something like 55 straight polls of Pennsylvania, and yet lost my home state. Something similar happened in Michigan and Wisconsin. Compounding my problem was that Clinton’s suburban strategy was working (and did work).
Scarsdale, N.Y., voted for Mrs. Clinton by 57 points, up from Mr. Obama’s 18-point win. You could drive a full 30 miles through the leafy suburbs northwest of Boston before reaching a town where Mr. Trump hit 20 percent of the vote. She won the affluent east-side suburbs of Seattle, like Mercer Island, Bellevue and Issaquah, by around 50 points — doubling Mr. Obama’s victory.
Every old-money Republican enclave of western Connecticut, like Darien and Greenwich, voted for Mrs. Clinton, in some cases swinging 30 points in her direction. Every precinct of Winnetka and Glencoe, Ill., went to Mrs. Clinton as well.
Her gains were nearly as impressive in affluent Republican suburbs, like those edging west of Kansas City, Mo., and Houston; north of Atlanta, Dallas and Columbus, Ohio; or south of Charlotte, N.C., and Los Angeles in Orange County. Mrs. Clinton didn’t always win these affluent Republican enclaves, but she made big gains.
I live in the Philadelphia suburbs, where I organized voter registration and GOTV teams in 2004 and knocked many doors on my own in 2008 and 2012. I could sense that Trump was running much weaker than Romney and that moderate Republicans were embarrassed by their candidate and either abandoning him or supporting him quietly and begrudgingly. After the election, I compiled the following numbers from Philly’s suburban counties. The numbers probably changed slightly after the recount but these are probably still pretty accurate:
DELAWARE COUNTY: Clinton +63,000, Obama +61,000
MONTGOMERY COUNTY: Clinton +91,000 Obama +58,000
BUCKS COUNTY: Clinton +2,000, Obama +3,500
CHESTER COUNTY: Clinton +25,000, Obama -1,000
Moreover, turnout was up modestly in the suburbs, so there wasn’t a drop off in interest. These numbers are good, and certainly good enough to assure statewide victory against any normal Republican. According to Cohn, however, these numbers are actually pretty tepid compared to how well Clinton ran in the suburbs of many other major cities. This is probably due to the more working class makeup of Delaware and (particularly) Bucks counties.
Cohn suggests there was a predictable drop off in black turnout, with black precincts of Philadelphia showing an 8% participation decline, but Clinton netted almost as many votes out of Philly as Obama did in 2012, and more in Pittsburgh. In combination, she netted more votes out of those two cities. And, yet, she still squandered the comfortable lead that Obama enjoyed and lost by more than 40,000 votes.
And she lost because a lot of white working class voters who had supported Obama against Romney turned against her. Looking back at the Philadelphia convention, I should have been more concerned about how much energy was going into protesting the Trans-Pacific trade agreement. I assumed it might erode some support from the far left that would wind up voting for Jill Stein or maybe Gary Johnson, and that a lot of folks would stay home. I didn’t anticipate how many people would crossover and support Trump.
The role of race is complicated here. Obviously, we’re talking about a decisive bloc of Obama voters who supported Trump, but that doesn’t mean that they weren’t receptive to Trump’s call to ban Muslims or build a wall on the border with Mexico. Cohn argues persuasively that these voters had been turned off to Romney because he opposed the auto bailout and was successfully portrayed as a vulture capitalist. This time around, it was Clinton who was portrayed as too friendly with Wall Street.
Ever since the election, there’s been a raging debate over whether race or economics were more decisive factors, and I seem to be taking the economic side here, but I think it’s impossible to disentangle the two. What I think Cohn’s analysis shows is that race presents a cultural challenge to the Democrats in white working class communities, but that perceptions of plutocracy present an equal problem for Republicans. I don’t discount gender as a variable, either, or simpler factors like charisma and ability to “connect.”
A simple way of looking at it is that the Democrats must win the economic message with working class whites to avoid getting slaughtered on the identity issues.
Another thing to consider is that these key swing voters are simply indifferent to a lot of core liberal values, and that’s when they’re not outright hostile to them. The ones we care about are Democrats, or used to be. They’ve been voting for our presidential candidates, anyway, until this year.
But they haven’t been voting Democratic because they agree with us on pluralism or America’s proper role in the world or how to conduct diplomacy or the importance of science-informed education and policy or the importance of female autonomy and empowerment or the minimum requirements of temperament and experience expected of a president. They are probably more inclined to support the police than Blacks Lives Matter, don’t give a damn about climate change, and are conservative about gay rights. They voted for Obama despite all of these differences from Obama’s metropolitan “coalition of the ascendant.”
What this election did was cleave these voters from the Democratic Party even as the opposite thing was happening in our suburbs.
But the most threatening thing, in my view, is that too many of the suburban voters who abandoned the GOP’s presidential candidate wound up sticking with downticket Republicans. In other words, it isn’t an even swap.
Worse, even if it were an even swap, it would still be a bad trade due to the demographic dispersion of the vote. The Democrats will continue to lose most districts in this country if all their strength is confined to cities, suburbs, and college towns, and that means Republican dominance in state legislatures and the U.S. House of Representatives for as far as our eyes can see.
The coalition that did support Clinton is larger overall, but that doesn’t help. And the coalition is wounded and bewildered that so many people were willing to overlook Trump’s many flaws and insults, and they’re lashing out at the Democrats who abandoned the cause.
This is likely to act as an accelerant to a problem that actually needs to be arrested and reversed. This kind of polarization does not benefit the left, and we need to understand this even if every fiber of our beings wants to reject it.
Answers aren’t easy to come by, but one hopeful sign is that the voters we need supported us in the past despite not agreeing with us about many things. We don’t need to adopt their views on everything or compromise our values. We need to make sure that they see us on their side again against the big monied interests they’ve always opposed.
We may need to have a less cohesive party, not so much on civil rights or other core values, but on economic matters. To hold the suburbs and make further inroads there, we can’t necessarily move as one party into an economic populism that will bring the lost Obama voters back.
The answer may be to become less cohesive and coherent. Looking back at the New Deal coalition, we know that this can be successful, even if it gives people a lot of heartburn. Maybe it won’t be so bad this time, with the Jim Crowers all on the other side.
You dance around it but you won’t quite spit out what you’re saying here:
What are you arguing for, per se?
I think we need to recruit more candidates like Jason Kander, who ran as a progressive in Missouri(!!!) and barely lost to an incumbent in a state that Trump demolished Clinton. Was it because Kander was uniquely strong and Blunt was uniquely weak? Maybe. But on the surface, and something Kander himself argues (he was on Pfeifer’s and Favreu’s podcast recently), you don’t need the voters to agree with you on the issues if they believe you’re fighting for them.
Isn’t that simplistic?
Kander’s best ad was him assembling an assault rifle blindfolded.
It wasn’t just his best ad, it was the best ad I’ve seen in a long time. But the point is he still argued the “progressive” point of background checks and in favor of gun control. He argued for a public option and for raising wages. He went everywhere around the state. He’s likeable. I didn’t even agree with his ad’s message, I’m not swayed by advertisement, and that ad had me wanting to drive to Missouri and knock on doors for him. It was that powerful.
Put it this way: if Clinton’s economic program was more “liberal” than Kander’s, I’d still vote for him 10 times out of 10 over her because of how he comes off in demeanor and likeability and trust. And apparently a significant number of people in Missouri agreed.
A lot of democratic primary voters were willing to ignore the fact that many people, justly or unjustly, found Hillary personally unlikeable. Maybe it was her speaking style, maybe it was the history of being a right-wing hate figure, maybe it was misogyny… in fact I’m sure it was all of these things. But it was real and as I argued during the primary it was a major mistake to discount this. Bernie was likable, cranky uncle style. Biden, had he run, is incredibly likable. Obama was incredibly likable.
Politicians need to be likable. They need to be charismatic. Polarization drives too many votes to give up the marginal gains that it brings. As a rational matter it’s utterly irrelevant and stupid to care about a candidate’s personal charisma but as a matter of political fact it’s a big deal.
Yes. Before Bernie even jumped in I was ready to back O’Malley as he seemed to be the only “major” candidate we knew about who would challenge her. He has problems of his own, but I didn’t want Clinton for the same reasons I didn’t want her in 2008. The bridges too far for me are people like Jim Webb. Clinton over Webb, pretty low bar.
But the fact is if you can’t win black women in the primary none of this makes a difference.
In 2008, I picked Obama over Hillary as I knew the margins had to be too great for a possibility to jiggle the vote count and he could achieve that.
AS has been pointed out, if you nominate a candidate with such huge negatives, you are rolling the dice.
R
I will admit that I didn’t understand the value of this. I truly thought that more experience, better policy, and the horribleness of the competition would be more important than charm. I don’t blame Hillary for the shallowness of the American people, but I will keep it in mind from here on out.
link to the podcast
We all said HRC was a gamble as her 30-40 yrs of baggage was part and parcel of her candidacy. I thought O’Malley might have made a good alternative, but by soaking up all the Big Money and 3/4- 4/5 of the super delegates; main stream alternatives couldn’t get traction.
Sanders was laughed off at first, but wining primaries or caucuses and matching her Big Money with small donations showed the way. And he was authentic; for better or worse.
HRC could never come across as “authentic”, and I won’t try to determine why; that is for history to decide. I know I thought she had a committee in her head focus testing every sentence. Sometimes she slipped their control and said authentic but politically stupid things.
R
Heh,
‘I thought she had a committee in her head focus testing every sentence’.
That’s a nice turn of phrase and IMO as close to describing….not necessarily her, but the image of her.
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I agree its the image of her, but I don’t know her personally so the image is all I have to go on. As did a lot of voters. If she projected that image, or something akin to it, then there is no way she could be seen as “authentic”.
R
I don’t think you can discount that the election swung nearly 4 points in the final two weeks. Trump was always going to pick up wayward Republicans, but Clinton lost over 3% of her support in direct response to Comey’s ratfucking.
Even if it did look at a state like wisconsin. Its swung 7+ points since 2012. Iowa swung by 10. You cannot blame Comey for that and ignoring the problem is a disaster.
What changed politically in Wisconson since 2012? At the national level we had complete legislative gridlock, courtesy of the Tea Party. At the state level, we had union busting, gutting of state services, an economy that fell behind peer states (the comparison between R-led Wisconson and D-led Minnesota is striking) and widespread vote suppression, courtesy of Gov. Scott Walker and Republicans.
The lesson seems to be that deliberately hurting your constituents and then setting them against each other works. If you have a good response to that I’d love to hear it.
I’m not sure if you fully understand the union thing. Unions are NOT 100% loved by the working class. Many do not like them.
Walker was able to use the pension issue against unions. Unions do not understand that pensions are DONE. FINIS. OVER. They can be used to destroy unions, because union pensions are not enjoyed by non-union employees.
This will be happening in other states with public sector unions. The pension system in at least 10 states (IL, DE, RI, etc) are in horrible shape and can be used to destroy unions. I strongly suggest that unions allow pensions to be phased out for new employees and go to the 401K for new employees with employer contribution. Much more appropriate to the times.
The pension system in at least 10 states (IL, DE, RI, etc) are in horrible shape and can be used to destroy unions. I strongly suggest that unions allow pensions to be phased out for new employees and go to the 401K for new employees with employer contribution. Much more appropriate to the times.
401(k)’s suck. Just a fact of life. That you’d advocate for them is madness. Who controls those three states you listed? Democrats. By under-funding the pensions they’re screwing their base, again. Why is Rauner even governor? Because Quinn and Emanuel were screwing their base voters. Unions, like all other l3eft-leaning groups have done an absolutely terrible job on educating people about what candidates stand where. Don’t believe me? Read Michelle Goldberg’s piece in Slate today about the focus groups Planned Parenthood convened recently.
I don’t care what you say about pensions vs 401Ks. Pensions are dead. They are a guaranteed way to lose elections, because no one except teachers, firemen, police and muni workers has them now. That means that, like in WI, they can be used to destroy the unions.
Walker destroyed the unions using the pension envy card. The only way to save unions is to re-orient their perspective on retirement.
The reason private pensions are dead is that corporate raiders have been able to list them as corporate assets to be added to a balance sheet or to be shifted to entities designed to go bankrupt and sloughed off. Republican Federal Judges allow this. (See Peabody/Patriot Coal and recent bankruptcy rulings).
R
Began way back when with the airlines bankruptcy.
In fact, having good pension reserves came to be a liability–it attracted the sharks.
Walker destroyed the unions using the pension envy card.
That was far from the only reason. Walker lies just as much as Trump. Just another failure of establishment Democrats that they haven’t been able to beat that unqualified hack yet. And he’s not term-limited either so he can screw up Wisconsin even farther.
I was just yesterday in WI. My daughter lives in a small town near Ripon where we own a little house. My wife’s relatives are all from there. We were also in Milwaukee at Ratzsch’s (high bavarian), and Milwaukee is gradually going down, down, down – not at Chicago levels, but going there – the gang problems are almost as bad.
What is needed is something in the rural areas. We were in Waupun, a small town just south of Fond du Lac. It has one industry – a men’s prison (prison industrial complex). It has a bunch of small stores. One end of town is failing, and all the stores are closed. How can small towns be saved?
There is one thing people do not understand about rural areas. They have been devastated by chain stores. 40 years ago, there were small businesses run by local people. They had somewhat higher prices, but the profits stayed local, and the owners were the important people in towns. Chain stores have destroyed the towns – they take all the profits to Bentonville, AK (WalMart) or Minneapolis (Target) or other places. Chain restaurants do the same. That guy who is the boss of Hardee’s makes millions. 40 years ago, before chain hamburger stores, there were a multiple of small restaurants, each of which made a living wage for the owner. Now, we have local workers and an owner who makes less due to the franchise fee.
We need to find a way to diminish the reach of chain stores. We need to restore America to a nation of shopkeepers, not a nation of part-time store clerks earning minimum wage.
Ending chains stores isn’t a path to power, because we can’t do it until we have power, and probably pretty overwhelming power at that given the influence they have.
Trump promised to bring back the jobs. I doubt many will return, but the promise is what people want to hear. Clinton promised to not bring back the jobs – she said those jobs were not returning.
So, my point – we need to find a way to work with rural areas. The chain stores turn rural people into serfs. Empower people by returning autonomy to these areas.
The way to diminish the reach of chain stores is to encourage people to stop shopping at them.
Which they haven’t, and they won’t.
We can shut down every national retail chain and then everyone will shop online.
If you have a solution to the fact that the people have chosen where they want to spend their money I’m happy to hear it.
Yes, well-put points. I agree that these stores have huge impact, and that people are going to them out of choice, and that idiots shop at Amazon out of choice.
I think that buying cooperatives may be one way to pry people away from these stores. Many rural areas have cooperatives for grain storage and rural ag needs. Possibly this can be used as leverage.
Yeah, I’m not disagreeing with your assessment that chain stores are lethal to rural economies at all. With food there’s been a cultural movement to local/artisanal/specialized but it’s been labelled as “liberal” which limits it’s spread in the more conservative/rural areas we’re trying to target. With manufactured goods I just don’t know what to do. For just shapes there might be something similar with 3d printing in a few more years, but I don’t see any way for local production of motors and electronics to compete with factory systems.
You say “idiots shop at Amazon out of choice”.
Why would anyone drive to a store with limited selection and higher prices when you can spend 2 minutes online and have the item delivered to your door in 48 hours for much less money? Everything about online shopping is better than in-person shopping. In-person retail is soon going to be reduced to quickie marts, pharmacies, home-depot type superstores and used car lots, because it can’t compete on value.
Every order you put into Amazon results in another local job being lost. I never shop online except for cameras. I can’t get Pentax equipment locally.
Shop online, lose local jobs. It’s just that simple.
You talk about job loss and defend Amazon. Don’t you recognize the inconsistencies?
More money in my pocket is more money that gets spent on local services.
Every penny spent at Amazon increases their already huge retail power. It’s an entirely false savings. A penny saved today is a dollar lost tomorrow as they gain more monopoly control.
If you don’t shop at WalMart, you certainly should never shop at Amazon. Never.
Online retail monopoly is a pipe dream. There’s basically zero barrier to entry. Amazon has thousands of competitors. They have basically no ability to set prices high and they know it. Online monosophy power on the other hand, one can argue Amazon has it to some extent because of the size of their market, but it’s in consumer’s benefit as it drives prices down.
Anyway, my original post was about the superiority of online retail in general, not Amazon specifically.
I don’t shop at Amazon or Wal-Mart, or ride Uber, for that matter. I feel very strongly about these and other choices I make to shop at smaller local businesses.
However, as long as we have our current set of laws and regulations which benefit corporate chiefs and shareholders while stomping on their workforces, broad consumer behavior will not change in ways that benefit small businesses. If it’s cheaper and more convenient to shop online or at superstores, no amount of evangelizing we may do will stop Americans from making convenient/cheap shopping choices.
The trusts have been busted in the past; we’ve got to do it again.
People like to talk about democratic issues that are losers with the public. I have my own list.
But people vote with their feet also. They also shop with their feet. I have a Walmart about a mile from my home. I have a Home Depot about three miles away, and a CostCo about a mile further than that.
I don’t go in Walmart, I hate the place, IT’S TOO CROWDED. I have not been in the CostCo in years….because it’s too damn crowded…ALL THE DAMN TIME. But these days I’m in Home Depot 4-5 times a week, and it’s a god send.
Anybody who goes after these places on busting them up will NEVER win an election.
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But…but…
You are arguing that “local services” cannot compete with online stores!!!
You actually wrote:
So…your “money in pocket” that was saved by lazy, unimaginative shopping is also going to go to online stores, and as a result your self-fulfilling prophecy that all local services will deteriorate into Wal-Marts, poison-dispensing pharmacies and QuickMarts will come true?
Great.
Thank you so much!!!
How much of your money do you to spend on jiveass merchandise, anyway?
And where the fuck do you live?
I go out of my way to shop locally. And…I get great products at competitive prices. The only things I buy online are those that are not available within about a 20 mile radius.
Yes, I live in one of the most civilized areas of the country, but I find the same thing happening in rural Maine when I hang out there.
You?
You take umbrage with the statement “…idiots shop at Amazon out of choice!!!???”
A self-defense mechanism, looks like.
Please!!!
AG
Services versus consumer goods, moron.
Thanks to online retail I just bought a new HE furnace and AC unit. Next year it will be replacing my siding. Last night I took the extended family out to dinner and a movie. Displacing brick-and-mortar retail provision of consumer goods (which provides less-than-zero value to me) in favor of my local contractors, auto mechanics, restaurants and other service providers is good for me, and good for everyone else as well. More money going to more productive pursuits.
It also depends on where you live. Live in a metropolitan area, you have options, and things are cheaper because stores have to ….ahem…..compete. I live in a metro area, so don’t shop online much, I have plenty of local options at good prices. But my wife? All shopping online…all of it. Has not been in a store in YEARS.
A couple funny things in this discussion. The republican libertarian Rand lover is telling people how to shop. LOL! Claim libertarian views, then run to the boss when someone makes fun of you. Typical libertarian.
But also no discussion of Walmart. A local company that wiped out whole community infrastructure.
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I live in a metro area and it’s been a retail desert for decades. Malls in the ‘burbs if you want to shop retail.
I should not have said I live in a metro area. It’s actually a suburb. In SoCal it can be hard to tell.
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I doubt we can end the huge chains, but we can certainly stop giving Walmart so much government help. If they had to pay their employees a livable wage, that would reduce the damage by a good amount.
Yep, subsidize them to wipe out local town cores.
But who can fix that? A minimum wage? No chance of passing locally in red states where it matters…and nationally the republicans are more likely to kill it completely…a policy ‘fix’ libertarians support…never forget that.
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nalbar, good news on the minimum wage front. State ballot measures increasing the minimum wage have passed everywhere they’ve been run in recent years:
2016- Arizona, Colorado, Maine, Washington
2014- Alaska, Arkansas, Illinois, Nebraska, South Dakota
2013- New Jersey
A number of right-leaning States passed minimum wage increases by ballot measure last decade as well.
Here’s my favorite reaction to this trend:
“Gov. Paul LePage affirmed his statement Friday that two advocates of a state ballot question to increase the minimum wage should be jailed, saying they are guilty of the “attempted murder” of senior citizens because of the alleged impact of a wage increase…”.
Despite Governor Bowling Jacket’s bleatings in October, 55% of Maine voters decided to kill the olds on Election Day anyway.
Thanks, I was not aware that it was succeeding in red states.
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Your self-justification basically means that you give millions to Bezos and deprive your neighbors of jobs.
You’re a moron.
This is the MOST IDIOTIC justification of stupidity I have ever heard of.
My daughter told me about a local business. They hired a Down’s kid to wash windows. Because he was a local kid who needed a job.
Bezos and the online vampires steal all your money and you give a pittance to some local businesses.
Thanks a fucking lot, moron.
I lost a lot of respect for your bullshit justification. As we see the life sucked out of towns by online merchants, we lose more and more small businesses.
Rural deserts of retail is what is left.
So, save your bullshit self-justification for yourself. It’s just more crap. Honestly, what contemptible garbage you spew.
You want to support Potemkin pretty-pretty jobs for people, feel free. You can have a Plymouth Plantation economy and people from all around can visit and marvel at the way things used to be.
I want to pay people money to do valuable work. People who add value instead of taking it away.
Bezos isn’t stealing my money, most of the money is passed on to the manufacturer/supply chain. Bezos is taking a vig. And it’s a much smaller vig than some garbage retail chain takes. And everything about the experience is better, for everyone. We’re all vastly richer thanks to online retail. Brick and Mortar retail is dying, and good riddance. Retail jobs are some of the worst jobs in the country. When every last mall and strip mall is gone and all the exploited minimum wage workers are engaged in productive pursuits the world will be a better place.
Yeah.
Just get rid of alla them deplorables, right marduk?
Go play some online poker.
You know…where you don’t have to look into anyone’s eyes?
AG
The two of you are talking past each other.
What’s being missed in this discussion is that much of the U.S. job market has moved from manufacturing to service work. That trend is not substantially reversible.
What is a reversible trend is the denial of organizing rights and collective bargaining for service workers. There is no logical reason for manufacturing jobs to be middle-class jobs while service jobs pay poverty wages/benefits and have inferior working conditions. Service jobs of today are often more difficult than manufacturing jobs of yesterday.
The difference is that employers like Amazon and Wal-Mart have employed various methods to prevent workers from organizing. If workers at the large employers were able to access broad collective bargaining, they would gain middle-class compensation and better work and scheduling conditions. That would require changes in Labor laws and regulations.
The Obama Administration has brought some power to workers through their regulatory agencies, but have been stymied in making further improvements by the Legislative and Judicial branches. Trump and the Republican caucuses will attempt to reverse those gains, and may well succeed.
I’m amused how fiercely you claim to fight for workers while shitting all over secure retirements and declare imperiously that Unions should give away their own defined benefit pensions. Boy, Union members would really like their Unions then, right? And, the ability for all workers, Union or not, to secure dignified retirements would be ended. The 401(k)’s movement is a fucking scam.
Say whatever you want, pensions are a guaranteed loser at the polls. Every time an R gov wants to get rid of unions, he uses pension envy to do it.
It’s like you didn’t pay even the slightest bit of attention to WI.
Pensions don’t get voted on directly. It’s illegal to put up to public vote an action of collective bargaining. And Walker never ran on a promise to cut pensions. He and his Legislatures just ruthlessly used their power to effectively do so anyway after having won narrow electoral wins.
In your Illinois, it’s apparent that Governor Rauner is not winning his protracted, extreme fight to devastate pensions and Unions. Voters have kept Democrats in control of the Legislature and Rauner’s re-election prospects are not strong.
That said, yes, Republicans have used pension envy as a wedge issue. I’m asking you to consider the organizing, economic and moral problems you wish to avoid here.
If workers with defined benefit pensions are made to lose those pensions, that is not only a mortal threat to their retirements; it is also a permanent loss in compensation. It will not and cannot be mitigated by other compensation increases. Loss of secure pensions also decreases workers’ support for their own Unions, and their enthusiasm for paying dues when the Right-To-Work legal hammer is brought down. The Unions lose members, lose funds, and the death spiral is engaged.
In your statements, you seem to support this death spiral. It’s a peculiar way to position yourself as a defender of workers’ interests.
I understand your points. I just don’t see it as a compelling issue these days. Perhaps I am wrong.
Workers will not have the power to reverse our growing economic inequality without the structures necessary to take collective action- action at the workplace, action in campaigning for and lobbying their elected officials, action in voting, and much more. More working people are voting for Republicans who enable their employers to stomp on them because fewer of those workers have Unions to help them understand how politics affects them at their workplaces.
Immigration laws could be adjusted and enforced 100% the way you prefer, and the workers in the sectors you are preoccupied with, and all other sectors, would still be unable to substantially improve their wages/benefits/working conditions. That’s because labor laws need to be improved as well. U.S. labor laws are far more causative of economic inequality than immigration laws.
Wow!!!
You’re doing very well, Marduk!!!
Congratulations.
What do you do for a living, and in what part of the country do you live?
Where were those units made, bubba? The ones that you got at such great prices online.Who made them? How well were they paid, trained and treated?
Do you think that this country can survive on a total “services” economy?
I don’t.
Plus…how well do you think the dumbed-down colossi of the online store industry will back up the cheap goods (mostly not too well-built in my experience) when they break down?
I buy supplies…and services… from stand-up men and women who have proven to me and others that they will back up those supplies and services when they don’t work right. From car repairs and tech goods to food, medical services, clothing and other goods, I pay a little more for personal contact and relationships. When I need something truly exceptional…like the musical instruments with which I make my living…I pay a lot more, and I also cultivate real, personal relationships with the producers. I could buy instruments online for less money, but they would likely be mediocre or worse instruments and there would be no ears there to listen when I tried to get my money back. Just another botboy at a phone, punching buttons and taking names.
In all areas of life I counsel people who ask me to personailze their lives as much as is humanly possible in this increasing depersonalized system.
Need to talk to someone? Show up at their place of work or home if possible. Not possible? Call them. You know…the old-fashioned way? Like talking on a phone? If that doesn’t work, leave a message saying that you want to talk to them. Only if those things don’t work should you email them. Or…go try to find a human being who will deal personally with you.
They still exist.
Email is depersonalizing.
Bet on it.
Y’just gotta be smart enough to make the effort.
Enjoy your prosperity, marduk.
Now!!!
It’s built on unstable ground.
Bet on that as well.
AG
P.S. Now feel free to give me one of your trademark, totally depersonalized downratings.
As if that will do any more good than buying crap from Amazon.
There is a common political meme that the Trump phenomenon and other recent developments in the world are “populist” movements.
They’re not “populist,” sir, they are “personalist.” All of those people cheering Trump in meeting after meeting? They were “personalizing,” both among themselves and to some degree in a live relationship with Trump. When people like Trump and the Filipino preznit Duterte basically tell the mainstream global centrists to fuck off, they are acting as personal surrogates for a population that is feeling increasingly mechanized.
Increasingly depersonalized.
So it goes, and have a wonderful Amazon experience!!! Shopping for something good at Amazon is like going to its sister company WAPO for the truth.
False news is all you really get.
In both places.
JFC. You do know there’s a difference between consumer goods and boutique luxury items, right? If I want a handmade guitar I’m not buying it online, and online shopping isn’t competing with people who handcraft luxury items for wealthy dilettantes. In fact it benefits them by providing more discretionary income for their services.
Yes, marduk.
Sigh…
I do know and wrote about that in my post. You know…the one upon which you are supposedly commenting? (Emphasis mine)
There are about 500 words in that post, and you have the gall to comment upon only 30 of them and think you have said something of use?
Get real.
You and your little De, centrist compatriots here…do us all a favor and keep downrating anything of any real progressive substance until Booman either decides to throw you all back into the shallow dKos-ish tank from whence you came or surrenders to your bullshit and turns this place in dKos Jr.
People wonder how the Dem Party fell so far so fast?
You and people like you.
AG
How odd that I would pick the few words out of your word salad that were actually relevant and responsive to my original post to respond to. Must be part of that conspiracy to something something dkos that you’re on about I guess.
Wonder what happens when Post Office is privatized? Monopsony ensues? That is going to be a rural issue…
If the choice is lower prices and more convenience, or local jobs, the jobs are doomed. It’s not that what you’re saying is wrong, but I suspect it’s irrelevant. The chain stores are here to stay. How do we work with that reality?
You used the key word…’compete’.
An insight…..the ‘jobs’ are not coming back. I’ll say it again….THE JOBS ARE NOT COMNG BACK.
The economy has undergone a transition, and that transition is ongoing and unstoppable. Like Clinton’s loss, it has many causes…automation, unwillingness for companies to be in the hinderlands, and most importantly….mobility. Some want to blame trade agreements, but that mobility has been going on between states for a hundred years, ever since the railroad and the interstate highway system. But mobility also has to do with international markets. You make something where it’s easiest and cheapest to ship to your market.
The world is smaller, and getting smaller every single day.
.
I would counter that in person retail has many advantages that Amazon doesn’t. While they have started a “fashion” or clothing boutique, many women want to see, feel, and try on clothing before purchasing; at least the tailored/semi-tailored types. Jeans, tshirts, trendy throwaway types …sure.
Same can be said for furniture. While “urbanites” may pick style or look over construction and order online; they are the IKEA type to abandon items when they move next year. So cheapness, then style are their top priority. And while its easy to return a pair of mis-matched shoes to ZAPPOS, its harder to return a damaged dresser or sofa bought from Amazon or Wayfair.
So for standardized items, online is ok. For more personalized items, local is still best.
R
Your chain stores sell all that crap that is make in China/Mexico/Asia. We all know the donald has proposed a 10% tariff on imports. A good dem would be on twitter asking the donald what is an import in the 21st century? Is an major home appliance with parts imported yet assembled here an import? Lets all see how the stock markets around the world react to the donald’s reply
I forgot. Will the donald’s tariff apply to companies who import workers or use foreign worker to do customer service?
The lure of WalMart in small towns were the variety and low prices. But now people realize they are machines to suck money out of communities and send it to Arkansas. I hear people in my small town daily say, “I hate going to WalMart”. Or “I want to shop local.” But for many items, its the only game in town since they have shut down local retail. They are also a major factor in the loss of domestic manufacturing.
All in all, they have been a blight on Small town retail and manufacturing for the nation. They are subsidized by the states as they pay so low, that workers have to go on food stamps and assistance.
But even WalMart is in trouble. Dollar Stores and Family Dollar, Ollie’s…etc… are taking the market for “basics” in small towns and rural areas; leaving WalMart with Grocery, toys and electronics.
R
And because a price increase in Obamacare premiums was announced at the same time.
Obamacare is considered a success due to the number now insured. My two children who have low-paying jobs cannot afford coverage due to the price. I hope that they are not injured or come down with anything.
My two children who have low-paying jobs cannot afford coverage due to the price
Explain. Obamacare subsidies make coverage easily affordable for people with low-paying jobs. For example a person making 20K would owe about $83/mo in premiums, approx. 5% of income.
It’s only at higher income levels where you might see some price increases compared to status quo ante.
Even with the subsidies, things are costly.
Also these kids make dumb choices at times. It’s enough to make you annoyed. Or make me annoyed. But you can only say so much.
It is also co pays and deductibles.
Yes, but
It’s been reported that insurance may not be used because of the deductibles. Seems to me it falls into a category of better something than nothing. There must be a better way to handle a basic need like health care.
My “favorite” report from an Obamacare beneficiary in Kentucky is that she did not use the free preventative care tests her plan was made to cover by the ACA. Why not, she was asked? Because if the tests had shown an early problem, she believed she would have been unable to pay for the follow-up care.
I’ll just say this bluntly: ten seconds of thinking through the potential outcomes there should have allowed this beneficiary to understand it would serve her physical and financial health to get her free care. What it that held her in this state of skin-singeing stupid?
Propaganda, it’s a helluva drug.
And what was her response to that ratfucking? I missed it.
I guess you did.
OH yes, that link says Podesta fired off a memo but Clinton did not address it at her rally in Iowa and did not discuss it with reporters. Great response, I’m sure everyone heard that. Now please ask yourself what would Trump do.
Yeah, back in 2008 I said fuck the south because we didnt need them but it looks like we still do. Fine.
I will come right out and say it. I do think we need to compromise our values on civil rights or rather, hold the line where it is instead of pushing. Then push hard on actually fighting for non-rich people, not just poor people but everyone getting squeezed and make sure those benefits are evenly spread out, not mostly to whites and trickle down to others like the new deal.
I will point out it took 15 years from 1980 to 1994 for the presidential switch to hit down ticket. So suburbs may move toward Dems in the future.
Where suburbs go is ENTIRELY based on property tax.
I have said it before, and will repeat it – watch IL. The pension crisis (caused almost entirely by Democratic underfunding of pension fund obligations over the years 1980-2015) is coming to a head. IL has billions in obligations. The obligations are coming due.
IL has 3 political areas – Chicago (D, 40% of the state), downstate (35% of the state, R), and the collar counties (15%, counties around Chicago). There are 2-3 other places, but they have gone more and more R, so I no longer consider them separately. The collars are the deciding area in the state. As they go more R, the state becomes R.
If the property taxes go up to pay the pension obligation, you will see a huge reaction. IL already has HUGE property taxes, and the pension crisis will increase these levies to unaffordable levels. My mom was paying 15K for a big house in a Chicago suburb, and that was with a reduction for seniors.
I think it would be a mistake to attribute any long term effects to Clinton gains in the suburbs. For all we know, her suburban gains were more anti-Trump than pro-Clinton or pro-D (and their downticket R vote supports that).
The FDR coalition was an urban-rural one, and it gave Democrats control until CRA though at the price of including Dixiecrats. I couldnt care less about Dixiecrat spawn, but there is nothing in the rural vote that is inconsistent with what FDR (and MLK while you’re at it) stood for. Thesse are voters that see nothing from Ds and end up opting for some words about god and military from Rs.
I have been saying that the flippers have been driven by their pocketbooks while Davis X Machina answers that Trump hates the same people they do. Booman is right about not being able to disentangle race and economics.
This Vox article talks about a woman’s struggle with the Obamacare repeal talk –
“I guess I thought that, you know, he would not do this. That they would not do this, would not take the insurance away. Knowing that it’s affecting so many people’s lives. I mean, what are you to do then if you cannot … purchase, cannot pay for the insurance?”
http://www.vox.com/2016/12/13/13901874/obamacare-trump-voter-health-insurance-repeal
So why did she vote for him?
“Well … we liked him because he just seemed to be a businessman.
We’re in a small, rural area where there’s not a lot of businesses right now going on, and so we can’t really have anything else shut down, because it affects everybody.”
I read this article right after talking to one of my racing buddies in Wisconsin. We talked about one of our friends in Fon Du Lac who not too many years ago was laid off when his job was out-sourced. He was then hired back to train the foreign brown skinned folks to be able to do his old job. Talk about a slap in the face!!!
These people who live in mostly homogenous white towns have felt they have had no one fighting for them for years as they watch their communities whither. So when faced with the establishment candidate, HRC, or the “outsider” who is telling them he will fight the people to blame – elites, non-whites criminals, Wall Street, immigrants stealing our jobs, foreign interests ripping us off and stealing our jobs… is it really that surprising?
So I think Davis, Booman and I are all correct. Trump managed to create a series of villains that white people could hate and a number of different reasons for them to hate them.
As my liberal friend from WI said: “For the people in our towns – his message got through, her policies didn’t.”
It’s really not hard to understand.
Trump promised to bring the jobs back.
Clinton told us those jobs were never coming back.
So, if you are going to buy either hope or pessimism, which do you buy?
I find hope in acknowledging reality, and working from there, but apparently that’s not how many people think.
This election had many poisonous issues. The loss of jobs to trade agreements was one of them. So it should be no surprise TPP was opposed by working people. Clinton said at one point she opposed it, but she was not convincing IMO and since this was one of Obama’s signature issues it didn’t play well for her.
I think, though, that this is one of the issues – jobs- that the democrats can not afford to downplay. It also runs to one’s standard of living as does the minimum wage. I think there is a core of issues around economics that the democrats can ill afford to abandon. No doubt these may be a problem in the suburbs in some cases but leave it behind and you risk losing.
No one gives a shit about anything except jobs. Jobs are the key.
Democrats spend a lot of time talking about other issues.
We need to find a way to talk to rural people.
I have an idea which I have been thinking about. Integrated hydrogen economy:
This is self-sufficiency. It is good use of resources. It is reducing dependence on petroleum. It is all good. It solves 6 problems at one time.
Yep. Jobs is the key. The dems need a real jobs plan and not pipeline of Canadian oil to be turned into $4 a gallon gasoline. Why aren’t there solar farms in Arizona/New Mexico selling power or charging Musk’s batteries? Most of the Appalachian range is prime area for generating wind power. That is the start of a 21st century jobs plan. The right has made the use of solar/wind a war on coal when it is really about jobs….a wind farm will bring what kind of jobs to a rural coal WV town? It sure will have nothing to do with men working under ground with shoves and picks.
The Dems and progressives have suffered a catastrophic defeat, have been routed, and are in total retreat. The defeat is doubly disastrous since it was completely unexpected. They have no plausible strategy to address the disaster, and aren’t even sure who or what caused it. They control no arm of the federal government and can “do” nothing. The Dem army has effectively dissolved.
So at this point, it’s Der Trumper’s war to lose, obviously. What HE and Ryan and McConnell do in victory will determine what the defeated Congressional Dems can do. Repubs have total initiative now.
Will Dems begin to react by uniformly confronting the parade of unqualified clowns who will now make up our nation’s cabinet and run its agencies? Will they emphasize the Der Trumper’s weak “victory” and seek to delegitimize him 24/7, as Repubs did from day one with Obama? Or will they begin by treating him as a “normal” prez that “patriotism” requires they treat respectfully in order to keep the 80,000 white defectors in WI, MI and PA happy? Once you’ve acted as though Der Trumper is “normal”, you can’t turn around and try to delegitimize him.
Will they start confronting their secondary enemy, the useless corporate media, and accuse them of bias at every appearance and opportunity—as Repubs did for years? How are they going to show they are “fighting” for Joe and Jane White Working Class, whose incompetence as citizens now requires tender loving care in return?
The “action” in Congress is pretty slow motion, and its grinding operations are not usually big news. Trump has the initiative and will set the daily, weekly, monthly agenda, We have no national leader, no acknowledged spokesperson. It’s difficult to ascertain if the disemboweled DC Dem leaders have even begun to formulate a coherent and cohesive strategy of opposition, such as Repubs very quickly did when they had been routed in 2008. I’m surely hoping they have and are just not communicating it–it’s not like Repubs trumpeted their Obstruct Everything Obama strategy, they just implemented it, and it became clear over time.
Repubs can take action now, and we have words at best, words that rely upon the useless corporate media. And in any event we have just seen that presentations of “policy” are meaningless when confronting an incompetent electorate–they vote for a party that promises (for 8 years) to repeal Obamacare and then bleat that they “hope it isn’t repealed”. Reason has been tossed into the garbage, and that seems to require a new understanding of “fighting”. And a new leader, from somewhere.
“We have no national leader, no acknowledged spokesperson.”
That is telling. And what we do have are now dying out.
They were always dying out. National leader Humphrey ran in the same primaries as fresh-faced outsider Carter,
Sanders is 75, Biden is 74, Clinton is 69. Warren is “young” at 67, though she looks great for her age.
Obama is finishing up 8 grueling years as President at 55.
Where are our “Young Guns” and up-and-comers? Why haven’t democratic party leaders nurtured and encouraged young leaders?
Will they start confronting their secondary enemy, the useless corporate media, and accuse them of bias at every appearance and opportunity…
The problem with that is that the media, in the aggregate, couldn’t have been more biased in ’16. More so than in ’12 and maybe similar to ’08. Had it even been neutral in ’00 Gore would have won.
Yes, Trump got more media attention but most of it was negative. Even Fox. Obama’s personal negatives were non-existent except for the doofuses that ate up the birther nonsense. As for his performance in office, it was mostly superficial and he was given a pass. Clinton dragged around her own personal and performance negatives that were reported, but did any of that rise to the level of attention and extremism as whatever Kerry did or didn’t do in Vietnam in 1969?
Hillary’s media coverage was relentlessly negative, far more negative than Kerry’s. The media also largely ignored or lightly covered her campaign appearances, sometimes preferring to show Trump’s empty podium as they waited breathlessly for the next entertainingly outrageous Trump appearance. Even MSNBC did this.
It’s been heavily reported than many voters were largely unaware of many of the candidates’ policy positions. That’s because it was horse race and scandal almost all the time. It’s a horrible way to pick our leaders.
And then, this:
“The Shorenstein Center has published its analysis of 2016 election coverage, and the main takeaway is that it was very, very negative–but not uniformly negative. For most of the campaign, Donald Trump’s coverage was more negative than Hillary Clinton’s, but that suddenly turned around after James Comey’s letter about Clinton’s email was released. In the final two weeks of the campaign, more than a third of Clinton’s coverage was devoted to scandals. At the same time, coverage of Trump turned suddenly less negative.
The result is that during the crucial closing stretch of the campaign, Clinton’s coverage was more negative than Trump’s…”.
The Shorenstein study also documented that Trump always got more coverage, every single week of the post-Convention general election campaign.
The study also shows that the media covered the 2016 election much more more negatively than the 2004 election, in line with a half century-long downward trend. 29% of the coverage this year was positive. 65% of the 1968 POTUS campaign was positive; 62% of the 1976 POTUS campaign coverage was positive. Stay with that for a minute.
You’re wasting your time, however noble the effort.
You can’t refute a theology.
It is a noble effort.
But if it’s one thing we know, republicans create their own reality.
.
the most interesting comparison to 2016 imo. Did Shorenstein do a comparable study of coverage of that campaign? Reading this, I found myself wondering which was worse, the Worse-Than-Useless Corporate media’s animus and bias and journalistic malpractice against Clinton . . . or against Gore?
Based on nothing more than my impression from memory, I find myself leaning (a bit to my surprise) to thinking they were even more abusive to Clinton than to Gore (which is sayin’ sumthin’!).
Click the first link in my post upthread and you’ll see that your memory is not deceiving you- coverage of the 2000 POTUS campaign is the only year which saw the media produce a higher percentage of negative coverage than 2016.
What do those two elections have in common? Hmmmm, I know it’ll come to me…something something popular vote something?
was even worse (liked the “bait for Bob Somerby” line; and I consider Somerby a National Hero — I learned a lot from reading the Howler — though he does get obsessive sometimes).
However, I did note KD committing an error — a pretty egregious one — he should know better than to do: using data reporting % “positive” coverage to draw conclusions about negative coverage, under the undisclosed (and wrong) assumption that what wasn’t “positive” was “negative”. Too lazy to look it up, but I think such studies, including Shorenstein, generally also have a “neutral” category into which they classify some coverage (pretty much malpractice not to at least allow for that possibility in establishing your classification criteria). So you can’t directly infer how much was negative from reporting of how much was positive, as Drum appears to have done.
“the Press” stands out uniquely, clamoring for special condemnation.
These might be those voters you are speaking of, Booman. The disaffected, not the “mad dogs”.
The 20% Clinton was drawing from will always be exceeded by the 80% who are feeling the pain. Our present economy has been kicking folks down at a faster rate than they are being killed off. Suburbs are decaying. And I have a real question about Dem’s devotion to increased education levels…
“Democrats have relied on a “demographics-is-destiny” approach that seeks to take advantage of increasing urbanization, increasing racial diversity, and increasing education levels for party growth while moving away from traditional constituencies like rural and white blue-collar voters. One goal of this plan has been to turn dynamically changing states like Texas, Mississippi, North Carolina, and Georgia into blue states in short fashion. But the hemorrhaging of blue-collar white voters keeps pushing the timeframe back.” (iow, we are creating poors faster than they are dying off.)
http://www.dailyyonder.com/analysis-giving-up-on-rural-is-not-a-winning-political-strategy/2016/12/2
1/16862/
Booman-you write:
For the Dems???
No!!!
The answer is to become less cohesively and coherently wrong!!!
Ot to put it positively, cohesively and coherently correct!!!
And I don’t mean PC “correctness.”
i mean morally correct.
As in doing the right things for the 99.99%, not the .01%
Geez, Booman!!!
DFUH!!!
Branding and advertising techniques are not going to work here.
Really.
Only a charismatic figure who states his or her goals…morally correct goals…in a cohesive and coherent manner and then convinces the voters that she/he can and will back them up has any chance at defeating Trumpism.
Everything else you are saying sounds like more like it might be the rantings of the ghost of David Ogilvie the so-called “Father of Modern Advertising.”
Content, Booman.
Not political operative gobbledegook.
Only content can save the Dems now.
ASG
Morally correct goals, huh?
Like destroying Medicare/Medicaid/the ACA, doing away with unemployment insurance and other social welfare programs, stopping enforcements of civil and voting rights laws and making those laws more regressive, all while rhetorically supporting and enabling racists and sexists?
What the fuck does AG have to bitch about? Trump and the Republicans want to implement Arthur’s highly immoral agenda. Terrific content he’s got.
Arthur’s got a brand, all right. It’s one belligerent, contrarian/libertarian HOT TAKE after another. No coherent, appealing governing vision whatsoever, and white hot hate for anyone who offers any dissent from his highly immoral worldview.
Happy Holidays, everyone!!
“Mr. Trump won 20 percent of self-identified liberal white working-class voters, according to the exit polls, and 38 percent of those who wanted policies that
were more liberal than Mr. Obama’s.”
If the democratic party had at least performed according to baseline expectations of a major political party, Trump would not be President, but then neither would Clinton. But we would have a democratic president, regardless of the shenanigans of Comey or Putin. Recent history has shown that WWC voters will support ANY candidate who they believe will represent the interests that matter most to them, and race isn’t always at the top of the list for many, if not most of them.
What’s the difference between “Make America Great Again” and “Yes We Can”? Not a damned thing. At least not to all those former Obama voters who supported Trump. The democrats didn’t have a message like that in 2016, and even if some voters were able to suss out some semblance of a message along those lines from Clinton, they didn’t have a candidate who could credibly deliver it. Not when she’s fighting to keep secret the texts of highly paid for speeches to Wall Street benefactors and having supported TPP. The democrats never came up with an answer for this, other than Clinton was “the most qualified candidate in history,” which wasn’t enough to prevent Trump from using the speeches to blunt/neutralize his refusal to release his taxes. Calling this out to many in the democratic party is taken as a form of “Clinton hatred,” when in reality its just common sense when the only answer you have for this and similar situations is essentially my opponent is worse than me.
Race is decried as The Problem, but for democrats it cuts both ways. Quiet as its kept, there were Clintonites in the democratic party who, at least in my own personal experience and that of others I know, who would say that Clinton will gain more white votes by being a white candidate herself. And that black voters will support her at the same levels as Obama, just because. This was folly on the part of some democrats who STILL do not understand the black vote. During the campaign, I give Clinton credit for understanding the significance of black radio, and she did make appearances on several popular shows. One theme among hosts was getting her to speak more specifically on why blacks who supported Obama should support her, besides Trump being who he was, and the premise underlying much of democratic strategy that black voters have no where else to go. (with the implication that, beyond “race” we don’t need to do anything to address your specific issues, and believe me, black voters care about much more than “race”) This effort was undertaken by black radio hosts who wanted Clinton to win, and knew that for her to get out the black vote to the levels Obama did, she needed to sell them. Needless to say, Clinton did not do well, but having exposed this blind spot, the response from many Clintonite dems was not to work to address it, but to tell black voters that they must get out and vote. Just because.
WWC voters who previously voted for Obama had no problem voting for a black man. They were won over on message, even though they may have been repulsed by the candidate (many were) and decided (incorrectly, unfortunately) that, Clinton was the “crony” candidate. When it came to “Yes We Can” or some approximation of that as an ideal, Clinton was just not believable to too many voters as that candidate.
“A simple way of looking at it is that the Democrats must win the economic message with working class whites to avoid getting slaughtered on the identity issues.”
I agree, but would add that Democrats must get away from cherry picking when it comes to relating issues to constituencies and work to develop policy and craft simple messages that support them, that cut across all of their constituencies. This is how you get the Obama voters back. Yes We Can!
This is what many have been saying, that there are core American Vaules and concerns that cut across racial and eonomic lines.
As you so rightly observed, many of the Trump voters had no trouble voting for Obama, twice. But they couldn’t pull the trigger for Hillary. That tells anyone who wants to look that it was both message and messanger that failed, not the voters.
(We could start a whole snark thread about various blocks in the Establishment Dem Party who reisit those facts to retain their modicum of power in the Party; demanding even greater segmentation and “identiy”politics”, not less. Like the GOPers demanding an even more conservative candidate when they lost in 2008 and 2012. Their agenst can be found on various “progressive” sites.)
R
So, why did all those ’12 suburban voters prefer Mitt to Romney and then flipped to Clinton in ’16?
Thinking…thinking.
Alternatively, why did more rural voters go with Obama in ’12 and then Trump in ’16?
Who did better economically between ’08 and ’12; white folks in the suburbs or in rural areas?
So, if you’re a financially struggling white rural voter that has seen little or no economic improvements since ’08 and twice voted for the black man and this year were called racists or deplorables by the Democratic nominee, why would you vote for Clinton?
Alternatively, life has improved economically in the past four years for many of those suburban white dwellers that shunned the black man in ’12. A bit like having your cake and eating it too.
Curious about what you think of this?
“Unions ought to be concentrating almost all their efforts on organizing more people, as Hamilton Nolan argues. Spending tens of millions of dollars to elect a candidate who barely cares about unions, who then proceeded to lose to the most unpopular presidential nominee in the history of polling, was a mind-boggling waste of money. They didn’t even manage to deliver their own members, who only went to Clinton by 8 points.”
http://theweek.com/articles/661874/how-democratic-party-become-labor-party-again
I’d say unions have a real problem with their leaders again, as they often have. Co-opted for no benefit to rank and file.
And different trades have very different agendas. ie, Teamsters.
This is complicated because worker’s (as contrasted with public employees) unions have been shrinking since the 1960s. Mechanization reduced the needs for labor, moving plants to the south reduced the clout of unions and then for the past two decades much of this work has been off-shored. Unions have no place other than the Democratic party to go, but as unions shrunk, in part because Democrats didn’t have their back, Democrats felt less need to advance union interests. Then, of course, union bosses moved into protecting their ever shrinking turf which maximized corruption — or corruption that became more obvious — and that eroded workers support.
No strong evidence that the DP has much interest now in even defending public employee unions. That’s when they’re themselves aren’t attacking them through support of charter schools. However, at the root of this disinterest is Democratic fealty to neoliberal economics. Everybody can become a white collar worker and work in rainbow environments.
We need to come up with new ideas of how to organize for the gig economy, which is overtaking the old one.
Cause state leges and small ball govt is where labor can flex its influence, at this point.
I think the author is right when he posits…”without unions, there is no prayer of restoring the party’s broad competitiveness. Hillary Clinton did win the popular vote, but at the state and local level the party has been virtually annihilated. Without an organized core of support, they simply cannot contest the right-wing advantage in money and their associated army of ideologues. And when it comes to bedrock left-wing institutions, it doesn’t get any more foundational than unions. For centuries they have been the signature way the working class makes its political presence felt.’
How else do we pull the Dem party out of Wall Street’s grip?
The word “gender” comes up once in the post proper, and not at all in the comments.
The big-L left won’t talk about it because Marx didn’t — nor Marxists, except a few pesky gadflies like Luxemburg and Goldman.
The right won’t talk about it because they like things the way they are right now, and would walk them back to 1950 if they could.
The biggest, bestest middle class job opportunities for females has always been govt work.
Which we cannot afford, because austerity…
Who gets to tell Sen. Klobuchar, and Sen. Gillebrand, and Sen. Baldwin, and Sen. Harris, and Sen. Duckworth and Sen. Harris “Thank you for your service, but we have to ask you to abandon any dreams of higher office, as we attempt to soothe the WWC voter.”
I don’t want to.
Er, those jobs look like govt work to me. But what do I know?
You think Heidi would be acceptable to Mass voters instead of Liz?
Warren aged out of my list.
I think women have permeated the economy to such an extent that even Republican women would laugh at any attempt to push them back in the kitchen (outside nut job religious sects). They hold political posistions up to VP and Pres., and if the candidate had been a different woman or a better compaigner, that office would have been attained.
So, I think any vote against Hillary becasue of gender was miniscule compared to those who voted against her because of WHO she is. (which, if you want a gender bias neutral society, is exactly correct).
While the stereotype of “red state” voters is one of ignorant, bible thumpting, mysogany; in reality it is women who are running businesses, towns, state offices, and usually the State House, in those states. Late night preachers and provocative radio hosts may say otherwise, but every voter there knows the truth.
Ridge
We need to make sure that they see us on their side again against the big monied interests they’ve always opposed.
Er, that is different from ‘make sure we are on their side’.
Clever wordings don’t play in Podunk.
Pity it took a Trump to make that clear, and conjure an imaginary way out of the mess.
When image trumps reality, it reeks of marketing.
Maybe someone has already noted this and if so apologies. But the Huff Post has an article up about a Washington Post story that Comey may have known about the later dumb of e mails on October 7 and not October 27. Either that some NY agents withheld the info and leaked it earlier to Rudy Guiliani. Talk about ratfucking. Take your pick.
I agree with your conclusions in the last three paragraphs. In fact, that’s been my default position for a long time. To me that spells the need for more Sanders/Warren/Ellison influence in the Democratic Party.
These more labor- and consumer-oriented Democrats are neither wild-eyed radicals nor McGovernesque losers. They are core Democrats as that concept was understood before the Clinton era. Even if “those jobs are never coming back”, these people need help, and they need to see that they will only get it from Democrats. We need to create new kinds of jobs.
In many ways the split in the D party can be understood as globalist vs localist. “Green” jobs in energy, transportation, food production, etc, etc., employee-owned and cooperative businesses, tend to be local and to benefit local economies. Dems need to attract investment to these industries, which is what many countries today are doing a lot better than we are.
The other point I want to make is that the reason the Clinton suburban voters did not give commensurate support to down-ticket Democrats is some combination of the fact that Trump was her opponent and that these people are Republicans or lean Republican. Trump doesn’t appeal to these voters, and Clinton could be perceived as more or less a moderate Republican, which is another thing I’ve been saying for a long time.
Sanders/Warren/Ellison
One socialist, one woman, one Muslim.
And the socialist is Jewish, the Muslim is black.
That’s the way to win those key marginal exurban counties in the Rust belt.
You’re obviously far more into identity politics than any of thee folks are.
I’ll make sure to carefully avoid women, blacks, Jews and Muslims next time. Just for you.
In the mean time I’ll just remind you that actually, Obama and Bernie Sanders did quite well in the Rust Belt, and Ellison is actually from there and very popular in his district. By the way, Ellison proposes dropping the term “Rust Belt” and I agree with him.
I’m going to say a little more on this, because I have to admit, I was literally appalled by your comment.
It’s one thing to put candidates up BECAUSE they are minorities, or to appeal specifically to a particular identity group. I think the time for that kind of pandering is over.
But none of these candidates are like that. They really aren’t. In fact, they are the nearest thing to the opposite of that you will find in the Democratic Party today. What they actually do is, they speak to the working-class and middle-class interests of the region and of the country. With an effective track record.
What really bothers me is that you don’t understand the difference and apparently think the way to go is to be sure to nominate only WASP centrists.
It also bothers me that you really do seem to think white “Rust-belt” voters are racists and see candidates only as stereotypes. When you are the one who is stereotyping, including stereotyping the “Rust-Belt”. ANd Ellison’s right, the term “Rust Belt” itself is a stereotype. It practically screams “why bother with them?”
I also get the impression you think you’re being “realistic” when in fact you’re just continuing the pandering attitudes that have gotten us to where we are now: USCWAP.
You should familiarize yourself with Davis’ oeuvre. It’s wildly entertaining.
working class’
These terms look more and more like a “tell” to me the more time passes. And a very telling one at that.
Because the only concerns/interests unique to, specifically, ‘white “rust belt” voters’ or the now-legendary ‘white working class’ are . . . well . . . racist. (Pretty much by definition!)
Otherwise, they are indistinguishable from the interests/concerns (e.g., economic) of, simply, ‘”rust belt” voters’ (or whatever they’re to be called once the “rust belt” descriptor has been banished) or the ‘working class’.
So why is “white” even in there???
Certainly Dems need to be addressing the interests/concerns of “rust belt” and working class voters (and non-voters!). (Of course, they’ve been doing so all along FAR better than the right wing/GOP have or will, as they are about to demonstrate all over again. But still not nearly well enough.)
The compulsion to force “white” in there says something very disturbing and ugly to me, and Dems should absolutely avoid any such pandering. It’s not the answer. To anything.
Maha, as usual, says it better than I do:
http://www.mahablog.com/2016/12/24/what-to-do-now/
Since Lutz and Gingrich’s word list, the whole thrust of the Republican Party is to paint any Democrat as an atheistic, radical, Socialist, trator, baby killer. Doesn’t matter if its Clinton, Kerry, Gore, Hillary or Ellison. Its all going to be the same. And despite 30 years of this, Democrats had success in Congress and the White House. If Ellison is effective in rebuilding and implementing a 50 state strategy (as he has stated), then the attacks for the GOP and its Party Organs will be intensive; but most people won’t care, Most want results. Same with Sanders. Who cares. People way back in the hollows of WV supported him because he as speaking to their concerns. No one gave two f**cks if he was Jewish or Socialist or Martian.
R
Just a wild thought. What happens if we allow the suburban voter go his way and the party goes big on an economic message for the city and rural areas? I don’t see that as abandoning minorities. I also suspect a lot of suburban people will buy in as well. It seems this time around much of the working class felt left out. And those people live in the cities as well as the countryside. I even have family that lives out in the shire. And believe it or not they don’t much care for the alt right.
Elections are won and lost in the suburbs, for the simple reason that’s where the people are.
Five Thirty Eight, May 21, 2015
That doesn’t look good for my idea. But I am still betting that not all of that is really suburban. The idea was to target those in the middle and lower classes and not those in the upper middle and above, i.e. people who may be more interested in a higher min wage, better jobs and help with education – economic. Also, those areas that might have an interest in renewal projects like Detroit and Flint and many rural towns. The problem I am having is the comment about winning the top of the ticket and losing everything else. That just isn’t a winning strategy. The democrats seem to be always losing state and local elections and that seems on the backs of lower class people – thinking of Brownback in Kansas. I don’t mean to say we abandon everyone else, but if you have to choose who to support and work for, I know where I prefer. Whatever we are doing now doesn’t work.