I’m not a constitutional law expert but I think it’s common sense to believe that there’s a limit to the presidential pardon power. It’s true that the president can pardon whomever he wants and there’s nothing people can do about it as far as undoing the actual pardon. We can’t for example, reimpose penalties on a convicted criminal just because we determine his or her pardon was corruptly obtained. But I also don’t believe that the only penalty for a corrupt pardon is or should be for Congress to use its impeachment power. If the president issues a pardon with the clear purpose of obstructing justice, particularly if they do so to protect themselves from either prosecution or impeachment, then I think they should be brought up on criminal charges, and we shouldn’t have to wait until after they’ve left office to see those chose charges pursued.
With news breaking that the president’s former lead attorney, John Dowd, floated pardons to Paul Manafort and Michael Flynn’s lawyers, this is no longer a theoretical conversation. On the one hand, we have here a case where the pardons had a corrupting influence even though they haven’t yet and may never be issued. On the other hand, we can now more clearly imagine what it will look like if they are issued.
The New York Times piece on this emphasizes that scholars and experts of two minds about what the president can and cannot do.
But even if a pardon were ultimately aimed at hindering an investigation, it might still pass legal muster, said Jack Goldsmith, a former assistant attorney general in the George W. Bush administration and a professor at Harvard Law School.
“There are few powers in the Constitution as absolute as the pardon power — it is exclusively the president’s and cannot be burdened by the courts or the legislature,” he said. “It would be very difficult to look at the president’s motives in issuing a pardon to make an obstruction case.”
The remedy for such interference would more likely be found in elections or impeachment than in prosecuting the president, Mr. Goldsmith added.
But pardon power is not unlimited, said Samuel W. Buell, a professor of law at Duke University.
“The framers did not create the power to pardon as a way for the president to protect himself and his associates” from being prosecuted for their own criminal behavior, he said.
Under Mr. Buell’s interpretation, Mr. Dowd’s efforts could be used against the president in an obstruction case if prosecutors want to demonstrate that it was part of larger conspiracy to impede the special counsel investigation.
Since Jack Goldsmith (along with John Yoo) was the legal architect of torture during the administration of George W. Bush it does not surprise me that I completely disagree with his interpretation of the president’s pardon power. I find it impossible to disagree with the logic employed by Mr. Buell. It simply cannot be the case that the Founding Fathers intended to give the president of the United States a weapon that could be used to obstruct justice or to run any kind of criminal syndicate without any fear other than impeachment. At best, they simply failed to account for the possibility that we’d ever face a situation where the pardon power would be used in this way.
Congress could end this controversy right now by simply asserting that pardons in the Russia investigation that amount to efforts to protect the president and obstruct the prosecutors will be considered a slam-dunk impeachable offense. But if they won’t exercise their oversight responsibilities, then I see no reason why the president should be able to hide behind his absolute power to pardon to argue that he has an absolute right to be completely above the law.
I’m sure a lot of the people who read here often are already aware of this, but there are at least two limits on the pardon power that you don’t mention in this piece. One is a legal limitation, and the other is kind of a de facto limitation.
The legal limitation is that he can only pardon federal crimes. Mueller’s office has been working with (at least) the NY state AG, presumably because a lot of these crooks broke state laws as well and they are well aware of the possibilities of a pardon.
The other limitation is that, depending on the scope of the pardon, recipients of the pardon lose their right to plead the fifth when testifying. Of course, there’s not really any way to make sure they don’t do their best impression on the stand.
Oops – that was supposed to read “Jeff Sessions impression” but I have a Chrome extension that has a weird side effect of occasionally stripping politicians’ names out of text input boxes.
Its hard for me to believe that this is true, given the federalist bent of the Founders and the tricky histories of royal prerogative in England and France.
I also find it problematic that it was Dowd, in his capacity as personal lawyer, that was doing the talking rather than Don McGahn, the WH legal advisor. That fact alone can easily translate into obstruction rather than a president exercising his powers.
By now Flynn & Gates have already let a huge amount of detail flow into Mueller’s ledger. Much of that will implicate Manafort. I do wonder if one of the reasons that Mueller has held out some of the charges against Manafort is so he could have a 2nd go at him if a pardon showed up and the crimes couldn’t be tried in State filings.
That news comes out that the latest Gates paperwork indicates that he and Manafort were in contact with a GRU operative, and knew he was a Russian operative, during the ’16 campaign sure smells like conspiracy.
I just heard one insider pundit posit that Manafort had been turned by the Russians and put into the campaign by them. And once he was there, the comment became, ‘ok, our guy is in place, let’s roll’.
A pardon isn’t necessarily a one-shot deal. Trump could just pardon him again. Or, pardon him for everything he has done to date on the first go round, eliminating the need for a second pardon.
A pardon might very well put him in a worse situation
.
What I don’t get…Why would Manafort want a pardon? It only forgives federal charges. If found guilty of NY state charges, he could end up doing time in Attica. A deal with Mueller he could get months at club Fed paying checkers with Madoff.
An excellent point.
If it was me I’d rather be in a dormitory with Bernie Madoff at Butner than any NY State facility.
And Trump, in his ignorance and narcissism, considers himself to be an absolute monarch anyway, not an accountable executive so, of course he will misuse his pardon powers and, of course, the GOP Congress will back him 100%.
One obvious way to prevent this misuse is for Mueller to dole out the indictments against any individual slowly one at a time forcing Trump to order an immediate pardon (in order to obstruct justice). Then Mueller brings a subsequent charge against the same person that no longer can be pardoned. (I believe the pardon power is not a blanket one pardoning an individual of any and all federal crimes.)
But even if I am wrong, the individuals would most likely get nailed at the state level (i.e. NY). I thinking of Manafort, Gates, Kushner, Sessions, Dumbass, Jr. and Wonder Boy Page. Of course others.
. . . jsrtheta upthread. Think he’s right on this.
Case in point, if I’m recalling the details correctly: didn’t Ford’s pardon of Nixon extend to any hypothetical past crimes that may not have been uncovered and/or charged yet? So, indeed, a more-or-less blanket pardon. May have been limited to crimes arising out of his presidency or “Watergate” writ large? But not, IIRC, to crimes already exposed.
Guessing the president can’t pardon future crimes not yet committed, though. Cuz that would be absurd.
I, from my perch in Canada, have been shocked at the state of democracy in the U.S. – the country we abroad all look to and acknowledge as THE beacon, as the originator of modern democracy. An ingenious, progressive achievement for which we are all grateful. And believe me, it is, or was, all that, and we free people owe your founders a huge debt, no doubt about it.
Still, there are now glaring indications that the U.S. version of democracy should be considered Beta 1. Originator? Yes. Perfecter? No. I submit that there are clear reasons that the US system has not been copied anywhere else. From the separation of the executive from the legislature, to the two-party system that empowers a veritable political oligopoly, to the ridiculous Electoral College, to this seemingly unlimited pardon power, it all seems, now, uniquely susceptible (especially post-attack, where once the oceans could isolate and protect), to corruption and political hysteria. The US underbelly sits nakedly exposed.
I am not saying this to be superior. God knows we have our own democratic problems in my land. Still, the US systemic weakness, previously hidden to us when you had a rational populace and thus rational leaders, has been dissected for all to see and there is literally nothing I have seen in the past few years that leads me to believe that this statement has any more trenchant backing than mere hope: “It simply cannot be the case that the Founding Fathers intended to give the president of the United States a weapon that could be used to obstruct justice or to run any kind of criminal syndicate without any fear other than impeachment.”
I think it likely that they did not intend that. Still, I’m not confident that this current, highly polarized and broken US system any longer cares what the founders intended. Anything seems possible, from here.
You write:
Precisely.
Thank you.
ASG
I seem to recall Nixon being pardoned by his incoming VP, so methinks that searching for limits on the pardon power arising from obstruction of justice may be problematic. In any event, it is almost inconceivable that Der Trumper will fail to use the pardon power to obstruct Mueller in the coming days. Indeed, he will likely blather that he is doing it to “make a big problem go away!” or some such open confession of impropriety. Ryan’s Reprobates will be forced to turn their gaze away again….
The issue ultimately will get to the Supreme Court, where it will be decided in Trumper’s favor by the 5 conservative activists masquerading as Justices. If we could get a Dem house this year we might at least get to have a senate trial on the national nightmare of Trumpism. That’s best we can hope for and it certainly would be a better use of the time of our failed and broken Congress than anything else that can be imagined in the next 3 years.
The essentially unlimited presidential pardon power is another 18th Century artifact lodged in our failed Constitution by the Founders because the British King had such power, so our chief executive should as well. It has thenceforth been abused by presidents exactly as the royal power was abused. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. It should be amended out of the constitution and replaced by a federal statute laying out a proper and reviewable procedure that the executive must follow to ensure the power is not abused–as our political criminal Trumper most surely intends to do. Such a statute would make crystal clear that pardons to protect presidential lawbreaking and cover-ups are improper and void. Another fond dream, alas…
There, FTFY.
Let’s hope we never have to explore the constitutional limits of the pardon power because, like many issues, the result might come down to the individual justices’ political philosophies. The text of the Constitution imposes few limits, but there are enough ancillary sources of information about views of the pardon power at the time that the Constitution was drafted for one to tease out some theoretical limits. That said, a self-avowed textualist might argue that s/he should not look to those sources in interpreting the pardon power.
So following Jack Goldsmith’s logic, it would be perfectly legal for the president to hint that he wanted an opponent assassinated, and give the promise of a pardon as an incentive. I sincerely doubt he’d make that argument if Hillary Clinton were sitting in the White House.
It doesn’t help that Trump pulled the rich man’s version of this during the campaign, telling his riled up crowds to “knock the crap out of” protesters an promising to pay any legal bills. Trump already thinks he can get away with murder. Conservatives are playing a dangerous game not shutting him down.