In our history there have been political assassinations, which can be a kind of coup, but there has never been anything like a classic coup d’etat. No doubt, there was some discussion during FDR’s first term. And the drafting of Eisenhower over Taft represented a coup of sorts. JFK’s election was famously corrupt, and his assassination still arouses suspicions of a domestic conspiracy. Nixon sabotaged the Paris peace talks, undermining Humphrey’s position. And many people think that Nixon was taken down by an inside cabal. Reagan probably made a deal with the Ayotollah to undermine Carter’s position, and there is little question that Linda Tripp entered into a conspiracy to expose the Lewisnsky affair in an attempt to end Bill Clinton’s Presidency.
Looking back, our elections and our politics have been a lot dirtier than most of us are willing to admit. Kingmakers, dirty tricks, ballot stuffing, voter suppression, nefarious plots, and, perhaps, even an assassination have all played a role in the selection of our Presidential leaders.
Maybe that is why we have suffered such a long string of terrible presidents. But the question before us now is, is there a concerted effort underway to bring down the Bush presidency?
Think about that statement to the President—”you were right to fear the agency.”
Here we have a columnist for a major paper saying that the CIA has been acting independently of the elected President of the U.S., and that Bush had reason to fear it. He said the CIA had engaged in “hidden management of the criminal justice system and the news media.” In effect, he is saying that the CIA is pulling the strings behind the scenes, and that reporters following the Wilson/Plame storyline are CIA puppets. He went on to say that the CIA also “triggered the investigation” into the CIA leak about Valerie Wilson by itself leaking. That is, the CIA leaked to the press the fact that it had requested an investigation.
Hoagland also declared, “One lesson available in this story is that amateurs are no match for the CIA in disinformation campaigns. The spies are far better at operating in the shadows than you politicians will ever be. They have a license to dissemble.”
Hoagland’s column was an eye-opener. Here was a major columnist acknowledging a CIA covert operation against Bush using lies and disinformation…
In a column in the Wall Street Journal, appearing on the same day, Victoria Toensing said the Wilson affair was so sordid that the Congress had a duty to investigate. Toensing is a former chief counsel for the Senate Intelligence Committee and former deputy assistant attorney general in the Reagan administration.
Analyzing the Wilson affair and the CIA role in sparking the investigation, Toensing said that “The CIA conduct in this matter is either a brilliant covert action against the White House or inept intelligence tradecraft.” The latter was a reference to the fact that Valerie Wilson could not possibly have been a true undercover CIA operative, and if it was the CIA position that she was, then the agency’s methods for concealing its agents are laughable or incompetent.
Of course, what Hoagland ignores is that there is a similar and separate possibility. Perhaps an element of the CIA, or even the broader intelligence community, is engaged in an operation to expose the truth. And maybe the truth is so damaging that its revelation would amount to a coup by leading directly to impeachment proceedings. This is what appears to have happened in Watergate. And we could be seeing a repeat performance.
It is certainly true that we have seen a lot of damaging leaks coming out of Downing Street. We have seen Joseph Wilson come forward, with a lot of behind the scenes Niger forgery leaks working in concert. Someone leaked about the August 6th 2001 Presidential Daily Briefing. There were damaging leaks during the John Bolton nomination. Now we have the NSA leaks. There are a lot of whistle blowers coming from a lot of different sources and departments. And it all has had a cumulative effect.
Today, the New York Times editorial staff writes about Dick Cheney’s abuse of power.
Virtually from the time he chose himself to be Mr. Bush’s running mate in 2000, Dick Cheney has spearheaded an extraordinary expansion of the powers of the presidency – from writing energy policy behind closed doors with oil executives to abrogating longstanding treaties and using the 9/11 attacks as a pretext to invade Iraq, scrap the Geneva Conventions and spy on American citizens.
It was a chance Mr. Cheney seems to have been dreaming about for decades. Most Americans looked at wrenching events like the Vietnam War, the Watergate scandal and the Iran-contra debacle and worried that the presidency had become too powerful, secretive and dismissive. Mr. Cheney looked at the same events and fretted that the presidency was not powerful enough, and too vulnerable to inspection and calls for accountability.
The Editorial Board used extraordinarily strong language. Accusing this administration of, among other things:
champion(ing) the abrogation of the Antiballistic Missile Treaty with Moscow in order to build an antimissile shield that doesn’t work but makes military contactors rich
gather(ing) (their) energy industry cronies at secret meetings in Washington to rewrite energy policy to their specifications
(after 9/11) agitating for an attack on Iraq immediately, pushing the intelligence community to come up with evidence about a link between Iraq and Al Qaeda that never existed
writing the legal briefs justifying the abuse and torture of prisoners, the idea that the president can designate people to be “unlawful enemy combatants” and detain them indefinitely, and a secret program allowing the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on American citizens without warrants
and:
pack(ing) the judiciary with like-minded ideologues
Let us compare these charges with the the charges Thomas Jefferson leveled at King George III:
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers. [going around the FISA court]
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries. [packing the court with ideologues]
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power. [engaging in torture, asserting extraordinary wartime powers]
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States: [a few bad apples]
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury: [Jose Padilla]
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences: [extraordinary rendition]
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments: [treaty violations, wartime powers]
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever. [once again, assertions of immunity from Congressional statute]
If there is a concerted effort to bring down this administration, that effort is in the best traditions of the founding fathers.
“Give me liberty or give me death.”- Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.)
Indeed.
Bush et al have been shitting on the intelligence agencies since they took office. And the intelligence agencies don’t take too kindly to it (with maybe the exception of DIA). There’s only so much abuse someone’s gonna put up with before they start springing leaks.
All I can say is to these brave whistleblowers – keep the leaks coming. It’ll be like Chinese water torture for Bush.
the truth is that the intelligence agencies told Bush that al-Qaeda was our biggest threat and counterterrorism was downgraded as a priority. Then the CIA lost institutional power due to is supposed failure.
They told him that Saddam had no nuclear program and that his chem/bio posed no serious threat. They told him that Saddam and bin-Laden were enemies. They told him not to invade Iraq. They told him not to invade Iraq with so few troops. They offered a plan that was rejected. State was passed over for the Pentagon. And they got all the blame all down the line.
Poor tradecraft, bullying analysts. stovepiping bogus intelligence.
Etc.
Powerful people want this administration in jail.
Powerful people want this administration in jail.
And we wish them every success in their efforts! 🙂
Powerful people want this administration in jail.
And we can all help if it will get them there faster. Perhaps we can turn the fact, that as Oui said, there are 25 black prisons to our advantage. We can do a wholesale house cleaning and then ship them to various places so they cannot regroup to figure out how to make a come back.
AHHH my favorite daydream!! Yes indeed if there is one, it is definitely A Conspiracy of Patriotism!!
I believe Nixon was taken down by a power-struggle that pitted his administration against much of the intelligence community. It is even likely that his Plumbers were thoroughly infiltrated and left tell-tale clues behind that helped lead to their exposure (the piece of tape at the DNC; Ellsburgh’s file left sitting oh his shrink’s desk instead of being returned to the file cabinet, etc.) Nixon’s “Huston Plan” was a blueprint for martial law, and the intel community feared being purged and de-fanged.
I think much the same thing is happening today, but it will take an awful lot to bring this administration down. The Republican leadership is so incredibly corrupt, and there are no Lowell Weickers to express outrage in the ranks of the GOP.
The key dominoe in all of this is Abramoff. He has the power to bring down half of the Congress and Executive Branch if he has a mind to. If that happens anything could follow.
we talked about this the other night. I don’t see the evidence for the plumbers being double agents, but I do see the number two guy at the FBI trying to destroy Nixon (with good reason) and I think there were other sources, probably throughout the government that were eager to feed the story. So, in that sense I definitely see similarities.
I think a very strong case can be made for McCord, Hunt, and Martinez being double agents, especially McCord who left the piece of tape on the door, and whose letter to Sirica blew the doors off the cover-up just when it was looking like it would succeed. Martinez was still on the CIA payroll while working for the Plumbers. Hunt’s allegiances and connections are too numerous to count.
the tape on the door thing seems innocent enough to me.
McCord’s role is very interesting but I still don’t buy that angle.
As for Hunt, what can we say? I’d love to know that man’s secrets.
Keep in mind that McCord taped the door not once but twice. The first time the security guard simply removed it without thinking too much about it. Then McCord re-taped it, and when the guard saw it the second time he knew something was up and called the cops. These were supposed to be pros.
I could write off the first taping to sloppiness or arrogance, but not the second.
I’ve forgotten more about Watergate than I remember, but I am convinced the Plumbers were infiltrated and that they were set up to get caught. McCord is the likeliest candidate in my book, but as I’ve indicated, I also have my doubts about Hunt and Martinez. Why was Matrinez still drawing a CIA paycheck when he was working for The Committee to Re-Elect the President (CREEP)?
fast-forward
“It’s a slam dunk, Mr President.”
If Abramoff were to apply for life insurance right now no reasonable insurance underwriter would issue the policy. I’d estimate his life expectancy as quite short.
I suspect he sits in a heavily guarded room with his back to the wall.
Hail to the truth tellers. What can I do to help?
If this is true – and I think there’s a good chance it is – then we are probably watching one of the greatest power struggles of all time: The Cheney cabal vs the intelligence community. I have some mixed feelings about the side I’m rooting for in this one – but I think we’re in for a good show.
I’ve struggled with that conflict of rooting for the CIA ever since I started digging around. That’s part of why the BushCo system worked so well. It played on preconceptions as a fine art. The history of psy-ops and those in charge of the BushCo are no secret.
I had to realize and came to learn that although I disagree with much of the history of it, many fine people have dedicated themselves to an honorable career of service in those agencies. Unfortunately Cheney and the PNACrs knew this too and knew they had to neutralize their influence.
It would be a perfect setup. Blame the CIA-Intel wherever you wanted to purge them of integrity and then slip your own folks in that are easier to control. The new ones would be more effective and the dirty work covered. Control the leads to pursue business espionage and control while still getting rid of the ones who have had honorable careers.
9/11 changed everything
Maybe there really are good guys at work.
I noticed something not too long ago that should be of interest to this community. I went back and read Nicholas Kristof’s original op-ed that started the Plamegate ball rolling. In the op-ed there are two main sources. One is anonymous, and we now know was Joe Wilson. Here is the other source:
“In this administration, the pressure to get product `right’ is coming out of O.S.D. [the Office of the Secretary of Defense],” Mr. Lang said. He added that intelligence experts had cautioned that Iraqis would not necessarily line up to cheer U.S. troops and that the Shiite clergy could be a problem. “The guys who tried to tell them that came to understand that this advice was not welcome,” he said.
The more I get to know Pat, the more I like him.
Valerie’s Wilson’s cover was a joke.
That statement alone, irrespective of the third-hand quotes from Jim Hoagland, is why it’s important to always consider the source.
You don’t have to focus on the intelligence community alone – although they are definitely fighting back – to find whistleblowers who, having met the brick wall of the Executive branch, decided to go public and/or to court.
Go back to The Fallen Legion, by Nick Turse, and his follow-up (Part II of III). Obvious that Shrub’s crew is an equal opportunity destroyer – no agency left unscrewed. Rather than one component of the bureaucracy, they have run roughshod over every single agency under their control.
The thing that history teaches, is that history should be taught. Guess they missed that part.
I agree! Only one thing bothers me about the Wilson’s being an intentional part of the conspiracy- Why on earth would they want to jeopardize the safety of their little boys??
That’s an interesting theory but I think there’s more to it than that.
The incident above happened after the Niger documents were widely circulated but I’ve seen some theories that say the ND were part of a sting operation.
I think it goes deeper to wrestling control back from a rogue group that had chosen GWB to play a role he fit perfectly.
9/11 changed everything.
If there is a movement to bring down this administration, I have to wonder if that movement has the blessing of a former CIA Director, George H.W. Bush. Could the father think that junior has gone too far?
Wow Toni…that is an interesting theory. I recently heard that he and dear old Dad do not talk much these days.
I thought that I had heard that, too. That’s why I floated this idea out there.
Wouldn’t it be interesting if that is why Daddy and Bill Clinton have been working so closely together these days? I do love a good conspiracy and that would be an awesome duel to take Cheney…er I mean junior down.
All of the prominent Carlyle Group people would now liketo see the neocons put back in their box, and Bush Jr. sent back to the farm where he belongs.
But they all seemed to be pretty tight when GWB chose Baker to negotiate Iraq’s debt especially when a big chunk was to be gained on behalf of their client Kuwait. That was a terrible conflict of interest that came straight out of the taxpayers’ pockets, American most of all. They were using their positions/influence to profit by playing both sides and double dipping.
That’s just one example and doesn’t even mention the history of the Saudis, bin Ladens, Vinnel Corp. and….
They might regret the individuals’ greed like Black and Perle but the team aspect was still strong.
Interesting link here.
Thanks for that one. I had just seen another article from the same author a few days ago. It was a well written piece on the immigration and craftwork of the senior Frank Carlucci.
For the past year or so, all of the major breaking developments or uncoverings in the MSM were around long before the MSM broke them. It’s almost like these are controlled leaks to condition the public a little at a time for a major revelation.
As evidence comes out that very few arrests, renditions, prosecutions or accomplishment in the GWoT since 2000-2001 have in fact been terrorist related, it will be seen to have closer ties to global business domination.
9/11 changed everything and while it had little to do with Islamic Extremism, it absolutely transformed the way the world perceives it. The ultimate psy-ops.
I can’t believe our career people in govt. conspired to execute this tragedy and then work so hard to ineptly cover up the evidence. I believe we have good people, or had good people in the intel agencies doing a nasty, but arguably necessary job…until..
9/11 changed everything.
I think rogue groups of some insiders here and from a few other countries conspired to execute the 9/11 tragedy. I think the subsequent inexplicable blocks of the investigations are a combination of the real criminals trying to conceal evidence and the need for genuine investigators of Justice Dept and others to keep it secret during the investigation.
I also think this would’ve come out before the 2004 election but the Abramoff scandal went deeper than they realized and Miller/Times really held things up.
Patriotism will never die, surrender or be silenced.
In my opinion it is the duty of every civil servant to react if they have proof of misconduct. They have sworn an oath to the system and at that to the Presidents office not the President personally. These people are employees of the USA and are paid to use their head not to be loyal stooges of a President and an administration in violation of the law and norms of State conduct.
If a President and his administration ignores vital information, customizes intelligence or even produces their own intelligence, of course people are going to react. A decision based on erroneous information might even jeopardize national security. The only thing to do is to inform the public and the opposition in the only way they can, through the supposed watchdog of society and the only non-covert information service available, The press.
Here are just 2 of several entries for the 12th of September 2001. This is from a comprehensive timeline that’s been complied throughout the time since then.
All of this has been in the press.
I tend to agree with you when you imply that you have to treat all information with an ounce of skepticism. That said I still say you have to go somewhere to obtain information, and the press is an excellent place to start. With a multitude of sources, newspapers, radio, TV and the internet I say you have got a better chance of rooting out erroneous information and putting together a more plausible picture of current events.
The people behind the site you pointed me to, also have certain views and biases, just like journalists have, even if the information has been complied over time. And according to their objectives they certainly seem to have an agenda and that is to help people understand current events better by reducing the noise that a multitude of sources provide.
Objectives
Reduce the fragmentation of the historical record
The Cooperative Research website seeks to help reduce the fragmentation of the historical record by connecting events whose temporal and spatial relationships are often obscured by a mass of contradicting and disconnected literature, the biases of the media, and the tendency for important past events to be relegated to the annals of forgotten history.
:“The idea that Mohamed Atta’s passport had escaped from that inferno unsinged [tests] the credulity of the staunchest supporter of the FBI’s crackdown on terrorism.” [Guardian, 3/19/02] I think this is an excellent example of good journalism because the Guardian in this sentence, actually provide the reader with ample cause to distrust the information. The sign of a truly critical press.
I don’t see the second paragraph as the press being contradictory. What I see is the press informing on contradictory views within the government.
Thanks for jumping in on those.
I just grabbed two quick examples that did turn out to be different in terms of usefullness.
The second paragraph may not be contradictory but that’s fine becuase it does bring to the public’s attention issues of contradiction within the government’s explanation. That information is also crucial to making informed decisions or opinions.
Yes you are quite right. That information can, and often does, explain a lot. In this case it seems to imply that the Bush administration was on a collision course with the intelligence community even from the start.
You know what’s so funny? When the CIA wants to overthrow a foreign government, they spread propaganda, finance a shady person for president, and woo the military.
In THIS case, in the case we’re talking about, all the CIA is doing is telling the truth. How is that a dirty trick?
The Bush administration made one fatal mistake – they blamed an unpopular war on intelligence failures. So when you call your intel laddies “failures”, they’re sure to return the favor. If he had actually looked at (and acted on) what they told him, there wouldn’t be any loose lips…
Pax
Where exactly is the CIA, FBI or other agency telling the truth in the past 5 years?
(…..)When the CIA wants to overthrow a foreign government,(…..)
The CIA has not overthrown governments at their on will. It has been done when ordered by the US government, mostly during the tenure of a Republican Presidents. Allende in Chile in 1973, The Mosadeq affair in Iran in 1951(?), United Fruit incident in Guatemala in 1953(?), and the Iran-contras affair in the 1980s (an atempt to destabilize the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua), just to mention a few.
The Bay of Pigs incident in 1961 is the only time I can think of when a Democrat has been in office.
To the extent that there might exist a high powered effort to remove the Bush regime from power before they do any more damage, it’s been pretty obvious to me that from the moment these lunatics seized the White House that there has been a non-stop battle royale for control of Bush Jr. between the neocon maniacs headed by Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, Tenet, etc. and the old-guard, Carlyle Group types like Bush the elder and Scowcroft and Baker and Powell and Bechtel and Vinnell and DynCorp, etc.
The neocons have been winning that battle, obviously, despite their near perfect record for failure in every strategy and tactic, every judgment, and every plan they’ve implemented for foreign and domestic policy. Now though, the weight of their own dysfunctional ideology is finally beginning to tear down their facade of sanity and competence.
Just as I believe the mullahs in Iran wil be the ones to take their bellicose and deranged president Ahmadinejad out of circulation pretty soon, so too do I think that even many of the big money international powerbrokers, (like Carlyle, like even Big Oil, who I think are even now beginning to realize that the unending war scenario that is the inevitable result of the neocon lunacy is going to hurt them in the long run rather than help them), will find a way to put the Cheney gang back in their box.
We still have to fight against the crazies as much as we are able, but I believe they’ve passed the point of no return on their race to the edge of the abyss.
Failure and success are terms of relativity. It may appear as failure to the public but as a goal of perpetual global tension requiring security, it’s perfect.
They already started the profit chain going for the next decade with these threats of bioterrorism now becoming more popular.
Cheney will get a position for life as reward for his hard work.
I’m defining failure as the inability of their actions to generate the results they claim they’ll generate.
Unequivically I have believed right from the start that the true goals of Cheney’s Bush regime was to establish a climate of perpetual war in the Middle East in order to help facilitate their eventual takeover of the energy reserves in the region.
The point I’m attempting to make about that idiotic rationale is that even the oil companies, (greedy as they may be), are perhaps beginning to see that the “constant war” strategy will wind up doing them more harm than good. Or in other words, it’s making it harder for them to secure reliable and predictable profits over a longer period of time.
The ideology of Cheney and the neocons is not pragmatic enough to sustain even itself, let alone the economics of a functioning society. And as the destructiveness of their insane agenda and flawed judgment becomes more evident to the busines community, they will lose support.
Make no mistake, I see the conflict in the Middle East as a result of their insanity continuing for decades, and this is what they should be arrested, convicted and jailed for; these crimes against humanity and crimes against America. But they are already starting to lose the unqualified support of a lot of their backers and as the situation continues the pace of abandonment will continue.
I don’t think popular support has ever mattered a bit to Cheney or any of the others behind the curtain. He does business with countries who have threatened to indict him. His companies have been involved in doing business around sanctions globally and profitting quite nicely from it. He helped draft the legislation when he was in office before to help secure the no-bid process of procurement. These guys are set for life.
One reason that Hal/KBR and other companies have been able to get around sanctions such as Iran, Iraq(Saddam) Lebanon, N Korea and others is because they were ultimately the sole supplier of necessary parts and technology.
The amount of technology ownership these groups have acquired under this administration gives global dominance to a relatively small collection of private organizations/corporations.
It’s no accident that the military realignment plan from Rumsfeld and ok’d by Junior relocated the offices of priority away from DC and to the suburbs where the real power brokers will be.
It’s not whether Cheney and the neocons are influenced by popular support. I agree with you that of course they’re not; these creatures are so crazy they’re barely even interested in whether Repubs keep the majorities in congress next year. They’re infatuated with their own delusional agenda and that’s about it.
No, my point is that as influential support backs off from them, the anxiety of Repubs in congress increases in direct proportion. Since elected officials, these days especially, elevate their own ambition over all principle and over any real concerns for the best interests of the country, there wil be more and more congress-critters calculating that standing firm with the Cheney gang might wind up costing them dearly both in the campaign fundraising department, (fundraising being their main job, after all), and possibly at the voting booth come Nov.’06.
With respect to the Iraq agenda, As an active protester of the Vietnam war so many years ago, I remember realizing that, in the end, our protests never changed the minds of the “leadership”, (of the aggressive lunatics like Nixon and Kissinger and Westmoreland and Laird, etc.) about the war, causing them to call it off and bring everyone home. No, we helped convince congress that supporting the war was not going to help members win elections, and it was congress who forced Tyrannosaurus Nix & Co to halt the war by refusing to fund it anymore.
For me, I believe this money/ambition-centric approach is the only way to force our own executive branch to reduce the intensity of their destructive juggernaut in the Middle East.
I’m not sure we’re discussing the same problems but I believe everything both of us are saying is true.
I’m not really addressing the political aspects as much as you are…no disagreement, just different parts of the animal. I agree that there will be a backlash and consequences but I also think that was known in the beginning by those who are after long term financial gain in the private sector afterward. This is also more than the usual greed. This really is about domination on a global scale in several different markets.
From that perspective, the change in leadership in office (some at all levels) will occur but will have even less influence over the foreign & domestic policy because the true power will be concentrated in private sector. Changes in patent laws, patents obtained by forcing businesses to divest or bankruptcy and guiding those assets to the desired hands…combined with some laws, like medicare, that benefit business but even if changed in the future, will still benefit business.
The true power has been concentrated in private hands almost exclusively since the 1940s.
What I’m saying here is that the agenda of the neocons for hegemony through force over the Mid East and the world is being interrupted, derailed, by reality.
The Carlyle Group types are competing for many, but not all, of the same slices of pie, the same booty, as the Halliburton/neocon group is, but they are doing it in different ways. I view these two forces battling with each other like I view the turf battles between the Mafia and the Columbian drug lords. Both are bad, but the Mafia (Carlyle) sought to establish control by making deals their co-conspirators and victims were reluctant to refuse while the Columbian gangs (Neocons) want to machine gun to death anyone who stands in their way, including any and all innocent bystanders.
The Carlyle guys are beginning to reassert their authority and influence, slowly and unobtrusively, as the neocon fantasies continue to collapse under their own weight. They are dangerous and greedy bums too, but somewhat less murderous, more pragmatic, better able to organize functional economic structures, and ultimately less crazy in the long term.
I agree that the power has been concentrating since at least the forties but actually began before that.
The power groups are all the same and don’t compete with each other. Instead they work together and benefit each other. These are the same ones that have been in power all along. There are elements of organized crime networks and families mixed in with all of them. Another factor involved is the influence of the longstanding secret societies that perpetuate their own power.
What appear to be battles between groups are just the low level participants, like the Republicans and Democrats. Evidence of this comes out any time either side’s existence is seriously threatened. That’s when the ones at the top close ranks and give us something to chew on for a while to pacify us. We’re less likely to do serious harm to their plans, anything more than annoy them, when we have some catastrophic conflict to keep us busy.
I’m talking about the groups who influence events to run up our deficit while lending us the money they will collect back one day. They win all the way around. When it’s time to draw down troops the profits will still roll in by the side results that need their business.
It’s the product of a New World Order and it seems to work.
I strongly disagree with what you say here,
If the Carlyle gang had managed to beat out the neocons for control of the Bush White House’s foreign policy agenda, the US would never have invaded Iraq. Of that I am convinced.
The Carlyle Group is comprised of several neocons and has strong ties to that ideology. Pax Americana is not a goal of the Carlyle Group but was stated as a goal of both in PNAC. It’s a perversion of the ideology in some ways and when it’s exploited, it’s done for profit. Many of the goals are the same but for different reasons. All Carlyle members are not neoconservatives and vice versa. The members are mostly exleaders from around the world and their acquisitions are generally related to the defense, pharmaceutical, technology and finance industries.
Conrad Black and Richard Perle are good examples of the convergence and influence they held in promoting the PNAC. Still, when push comes to shove, the Carlyle bottom line takes priority. There will be plenty of wars in the future. They have their own armed forces now.
While it is true that the Carlyle crowd has been making money hand over fist because of the so-called “war on terror”, they would have preferred that Iraq not have been invaded, as this has made it harder for them to peddle their long-term influence in the region, and it is their influence peddling, especially as regards Saudi money, that is at the center of their economic strength.
And, I cannot identify one single known neoconservative who is part of the Carlyle Group,. Not one, (and certainly not Perle, who, despite having the ocassional confluence of interest with Carlyle, has a completely different ideological position that is ultimatelyincompatible with Carlyle’s long-term philosophy).
This might be a good time for us to clarify some other factors that influence all of it or take it to a different diary/discussion, now or later, so we don’t hijack this one beyond repair.
The point you just brought up is too crucial to other issues involved to just graze over it. I don’t agree that it’s completely correct but it does give a different perspective and removes the ‘evil empire’ stigma that most people associate with the Carlyle Group.
It’s definitely a pleasure having the chance to discuss these issues in an atmosphere of considering various points of view.
Of course there are people inside the CIA and the NSA who are trying to embarrass Bush.
But their motives are far from patriotic.
Rather, these people are more likely to be acting out of self-interest. The CIA and NSA insiders don’t want the scandals regarding their activities to result in something like the Church Committee of the 1970s, which investigated decades of abuses by the CIA and other government agencies–and resulted in the passage of laws like the 1978 FISA, which Bush has now broken with his illegal order to surveil Americans without seeking warrants.
Remember, all Presidents are temporary. Four years. Eight years. But the NSA and the CIA go on and on. They are the permanent government, the unelected government, that stands (mostly) outside public and even congressional scrutiny.
I doubt that most Americans could even tell you what the NSA does, or is supposed to do. Read James Bamford’s “The Puzzle Palace” and you’ll have the beginning of understanding.
Of course the demise of King George and big Dick would only be too welcome. However, one part of the establishment overthrowing another part of the establishment doesnt exactly fill me with hope or joy.
The People’s license to dissemble.
There is no reason that a massive conspiracy of citizen patriot intelligence agents in concert with political and military wings could not bring about meaningful correction to the nation’s course.
As others have pointed out on this Blog, these folks really appreciate weapons more than anything.
Army of the Twelve Monkeys to the rescue. They are willing to use force. Are you? Find out about them.
The Bushites (and the CIA) need to feel like they are looking down the barrel of a gun they DON’T control.
Do you really think that the Black Panther’s role in the advancement and enforcement of Civil Rights was really so small as is depicted to all of us in school and on TV? How about the riots that decimated so many American cities in the late sixties? That didn’t scare anyone into submission. No, not at all.
Certainly, every struggle needs it’s MLK to lead them out of conflict and into acceptable history. But it also needs it’s Malcoms,Carmichaels, Browns, Hamptons, Newtons, Cleavers, Hilliard’s and Huttons to lead us into the conflict, not just prepared to fight and die, but fight and WIN. Ask England about the IRA.
We need a new conspiracy of patriotism, a new intelligence AND a new military to move the America beyond the reach of all these freaks. Political leadership and intelligence communities are more and more in the service of the Military Industrial Complex, which I think we can all agree is not some conspiracy theory, but really the ruling trade guild of the 20th and 21st Century. But their time has come and gone.
Army of the Twelve Monkeys to the rescue. Find out more about them, we need them and they are coming.