Congress has initiated a new Blue Ribbon Panel to:
study the U.S.-led war in Iraq and to make policy recommendations for both Capitol Hill and the White House.
The bipartisan Iraq Study Group — led by former Secretary of State James Baker, a Republican, and former Democratic congressman Lee Hamilton — is designed to focus “fresh eyes” on the war debate from people who “love their country more than their party,” said Rep. Frank Wolf, R-Virginia, during a Capitol Hill news conference.
It’s a doozy of a Blue Ribbon panel, with the following members of the permanent government.
James Baker
Lee Hamilton
Robert Gates
Rudy Guliani
Charles Robb
Alan Simpson
Vernon Jordan
William Perry
Leon Panetta
Sandra Day O’Connor
These commissions have been a sham ever since Earl Warren and Arlen Specter invented alternative physics. But this one is not charged with uncovering a mystery (something Lee Hamilton has a very poor record on), but with finding a way to get the fuck out of Iraq without the Establishment losing all their credibility and many of them, their jobs.
It’s good to know that Dick Cheney’s best friend Alan Simpson will be on the panel, as well as election fixer James Baker. Rudy’s mob connections are a big comfort. It’s nice to have Bush pere’s CIA Directer on board, as well as Clinton’s Defense Secretary. Above all, it is good to know that Vernon Jordan can both get the President’s girlfriend a job AND solve major foreign policy conundrums.
I wish them luck. But I don’t expect to hear any realism out of this bunch. We’d do better to pull ten people off the street. At least they wouldn’t have all kinds of financial interests in making PermaWar.
Hamilton said the group will travel to Iraq and may produce interim reports before issuing a final report but he declined to give a timeframe for release of those reports. He said the group would make every effort to reach bipartisan recommendations.
Wolf said Congress will appropriate $1.3 million to fund the group, which will work under the auspices of the congressionally chartered U.S. Institute for Peace and three think tanks.
It really is 1984. This U.S. Institute of Peace is the same organization that Bush recess appointed the loathsome, Muslim hating Daniel Pipes to. War is peace. Lee Hamilton is a Democrat. Rudy Guiliani is clean. And so on. We’ll be waiting to hear your collective wisdom.
What a waste.
It is a waste, put it is an especially putrid collection of people. Panetta, Jordan and O’Connor are okay, but the rest of them are just oil mavens and defense contracters.
I’m sure when it comes to final voting on whether or not the war was illegal, James Baker will just stop the count.
A $1.3 million joke. Too bad it’s not funny.
lol
He said the group would make every effort to reach bipartisan recommendations.
This means the Reps will profit and as much of the blame as possible will be placed on the Democrats…the greedy ‘ol pricks.
Can’t a screening for blatant conflict of interests be enforced?
Damn, if we aren’t a cynical bunch here…
😀
is no phrse sacred to these peopel?
I suppose the good news is, it doesn’t really matter. The facts on the ground are established. We lost, and there’s no recovery. Post-mortems in this case are a waste of time, unless they draw a moral, which seems unlikely given the cast of characters. Let’s just hope none of them gets killed while they are over there. It’s about the best one can hope for.
Tonight I started one of my new books, Gore Vidal’s “Imperial America” (2004). He claims there is only one real party in the United States, the Property Party, which has two right wings, the Republicans and the Democrats.
That way is despair, and I frequently stand up and oppose people who attack the Democrats, because I think the good Democrats are our only hope–and it’s a very small hope.
But then I look at those panelists, and I think, shoot, Gore Vidal is correct once again. This is one of the most bogus supposedly objective bipartisan panels I’ve ever seen. Four or maybe five (Gates?) of the panelists are nominally Democrats. But the truth is that the whole panel has zero credibility.
Just as the establishment press, especially the Washington Post and the New York Times, have zero credibility.
I used to work with Vernon Jordan. Let’s just say I don’t think he has ever had an anti-establishment thought in his life, although he has created an elaborate alternate universe in which he is the king of resistance. He’s not a real Democrat.
Who came up with this idea? I read news obsessively, and this is the first I’ve heard of this, on the BMT.
In conclusion, let me say with a big harrumph: What a crock!
As much of a joke as this panel idea seems to be, I nevertheless find it extremely significant that there is not one bonafide neoconservative on the panel. plenty of rightwingers certainly but NO NEOCONS!
I’ve postulated for some time now that I thought the Carlyle Group gang and their ilk, (i.e. Baker, Scowcroft, Carlucci), the gang that used to control US policy for decades before the neocons seized it from them; I’ve postulated these guys are now making a serious run at the neocons to recapture that control now that the gulf between neocon rhetoric and the results of their actions at the helm of BushCo is so wide and deep.
Also today, a second day of appearances by Gen. Bernard Trainor and Michael Gordon touting their book “Chaos II”, about the Bush regime’s catastrophic failures from the top down. They reserve particular scorn for Rumsfeld and Tommy Franks.
Now these guys wouldn’t be getting all this airtime on the cable news shows if there wasn’t some serious clout behind them and I surmise that this too may bepart of the Carlyle gang’s push to drive the neocon interlopers into the ditch. (I look for Rumsfeld to be out by October of this year, maybe sooner.)
This panel will very likely be meaningless in and of itself as far as accomplishing anything that might result in a signoficant change in the status and direction of the wars in the MiddleEast, but, if my suspicions are correct and this is a serious play by Carlyle’s so-called “realists” against the neocon interlopers, it is big big news and will likely lead to a dramatic winding down of US military aggression in the MidEast and a complete change in US foreign policy posture before the end of the Bush term.
These Carlyle types are scumbags too; criminal lifeforms barely desrerving of being regarded as human. But if they can drive the even more loathsome and dangerous neocons from power that will be an improvement.
In any case, IMHO, this is the ground where the real battle, the main event, is being fought now; Carlyle vs the Neocons.
Speaking of the Carlyle gang, lets not forget that the Dubai Ports thing, contrary to popular impression, is still not a settled thing. I’ll be looking to see if the name Bechtel surfaces soon as the “US entity” Dubai Ports World intends to turn over the US port operations to. (If it’s Bechtel, that’s Carlyle. If it’s Halliburton or one of it’s subsidiaries like Vinnell or Dyncorp, then it’s the neocons.)
okay. you are definitely onto something. But let’s be careful here. We have Alan Simpson on this panel, and we have Rudy Guiliani. They are the most interesting members to me.
But, the group is basically a early 1990’s version of the consensus government. So, yes, it predates the rise of the Vulcans.
I think Simpson and Guiliani, because they are widely, (if inexplicably, IMHO), regarded as being men of stature and integrity who can relate well to the common man, are on this panel primarily to put more of a “human face” on it. Same with Lee Hamilton, though of course Hamilton is not a craven and duplicitous shitbird like Guiliani and Simpson are.
This little panel deal came out of the blue just like the Dubai Port deal did and I suspect Carlyle is responsible in large part for both initiatives. (Carlyle has a huge investment portfolio with Dubai which they are looking to expand significantly. James Baker’s pals at Bechtel, (a nexus of robber barons with close affilliation to Carlyle, actually built all the Port facilities in Dubai itself not that many years ago).
I’d say something is seriously up with this stuff!
click on my link to lee hamilton and peruse. I think you’ll find out why he is the Dem of choice to whitewash Republican crimes (going all the way back to 1986).
Ah yes. The “Let’s let the bums running the country get away with their crimes for the good of the country.” defense. The poor public; we don’t want to traumatize them with more unpleasant truth.
I see a lot of merit to those theories but the Carlyle has been profiting and guiding the foreign wars all along, haven’t they? I thought a big factor in getting Blair’s cooperation was a bright Carlyle future. Dyncorp is also picking up new millions in the Gulf Coast reconstruction as paid police forces. I just can’t see any true power struggle especially with the way Baker screwed the American taxpayers in the Iraq debt reconstruction. I also can’t see any military-defense-security exploitation in our name diminishing with any of those entities participating.
Carlyle was by and large against the invasion of Iraq, as were, (seemingly unbelievably,) some of their bigoil pals who preferred the status quo of relatively stable dictatorial regimes they could easily buy off with simple foreign (military) aid payoffs.
And Carlyle’s bid to give Blair a cushy sinecure with them was an attempt to buy Blair, to “win” him away from the neocons pulling the strings on the imbecile Bush.
Yes, Bechtel, Carlyle’s long term international-asset-looting machine did get lots of contracts in Iraq, but they were a distant second to those awarded to Halliburton. Had Carlyle been actively complicit in the architecture of the Iraq fiasco they would have gotten many billions more than they did.
Don’t get me wrong on this. I’m no fan of Carlyle and that whole ilk. They deserve to roast in hell almost as much as the neocons, but, in this instance, in this deadly “here and now”, if they can defeat the neocons for control of the White House and Pentagon, it will be a vast improvement over the current state of affairs. It is an extremely sorry state of affairs when creatures like Scowcroft and Baker and Carlucci and Odom look good by comparison, (to Wolfowitz and Cheney and Perle, etc.), but we live in a world right now made incredibly ugly by these psychopathic neocons and it looks like the only ones able to disrupt their insane agenda before it moves to the next stage, (an air attack on Iran), might be the Carlyle gang.
No, the Carlyle interests were planning the rebuilding, armament and coalition support before the war was launched. I can’t believe they were against going into Iraq. The profits to be gained were too high and too diverse for them to not want to go in.
Maybe they just wanted a quick war.
It’s more than the US $ and it’s more than defense spending that they were after. This is pennies compared to what they set up for the future.
None of the articles you cite here provide any factual indication that Carlyle had anything to do with either the planning or the weaponizing of the Iraq invasion.
They made money through their private equity management operations involving Bechtel and several other companies buit they did so only after it was clear that the war was gooing to happen.
Neither Bush the elder or any of his gang of Carlyle handlers approved of this invasion. I’ve looked in the past and not found a single verifiable piece of evidence indicating Carlyle had an active role in the prosecution of this debacle. Scowcroft, Baker, Odom, (their part time ally in the state department Colin Powell) all expressed serious disagreement with the plans to invade. And they were all overruled by the neocons.
You want me to believe that the Carlyle Group didn’t want the Iraq war and they were helpless to have any influence to stop it? The same lack of influence that helped secure hundreds of billions in contracts after the fact? One of their top guys used his position in the Bush admin to renegotiate the Iraqi debt in favor of the Carlyle clients and still, they had no power to head off the nutfucks who did want this war?
I guess they don’t want war in Iran, either.
I’m sure you’re right. What do I know but what I see.
Pretty much that’s what I’m saying. Carlyle is an extremely opportunistic operation that will always take advantage when they can, but they were not enamored of the idea of invading Iraq, seeing such a move as a disaster just like they did back when Bush Sr. had the opportunity to march deep into Baghdad and they made sure he didn’t do it.
As I said before I’m no cheerleader for Carlyle, but unless someone can provide me actual evidence that they sought out, helped plan, provided weapons for, or otherwise supported this war in any demonstrable way, I cannot make the claim they advocated this war. (And renegotiating the Iraq external debt with European and Arab countries after the invasion and occupation might represent a form of war profiteering, (though I have to say I don’t recall the exact details of Baker’s position except that it did have to do with getting important countries to forgive Iraqi debt, rather than enriching Carlyles subsidiaries or investment partners), but such acts are certainly not war-making.
I can’t imagine Carlyle wants the neocons to get their war against Iran either. They were making lots and lots of money in Iran and elsewhere in the Middle East and if the neocons keep blowing everything up the profits will begin to disappear. Even the big oil companies know that, and are starting to turn against the neocons.
You say,
Maybe you see some factual evidence of Carlyle complicity in the execution of this war, and if so I hope you’ll share it here.
What does this mean? They had power to influence events from the early days of their group forming?
just like they did back when Bush Sr. had the opportunity to march deep into Baghdad and they made sure he didn’t do it.
I usually respect your comments, but on the Carlyle Group, you appear to be insincere to the intentions of their actions.
The Carlyle Group did not have the power to stop the neocons from launching the invasion of Iraq because the neocons controlled the dim and dysfunctional mind of George Bush in his capacity as president and with all the power inherent in that office.
Bush was completely under the control of Cheney and his gang and they made sure to discredit and/or insulate George the imbecile from them at every turn. This is why Colin Powell and the State Dept. were sidelined completely as far as playing any role in policy formulation. Like all cults, the neocons rigidly controlled the environment around Bush and strictly limited what information he was exposed to to only information coming through the neocon pipeline itself. And Bush was compliant because he’s an arrogant imbecile.
I guess you’re right. We should pity the impotence of the Carlyle Group. They were clearly outfinanced, outwitted and overpowered.
You seem to be implying that I am advocating on Carlyle’s behalf despite my several statements to the contrary in this very thread with you.
The points I’m making have nothing to do with sympathizing with Carlyle or extolling “virtues” that some might believe these mercenary shitbirds have.
All I’m trying to do is accurately represent the facts as to Carlyle’s position vis a vis the Iraq war because I think if we are better informed as to the facts, (even when we may not like those facts), we are better prepared to counteract the forces arrayed against us.
I believe that the Carlyle gang is pretty much the only group of people right now that might be able to depose the neocons from power in the White House before they attack Iran. For me, this would be a good thing.
If you are happy believing Carlyle are in bed with the neocons and operating from the same page, more power to you. I simply see these two groups as virulent adversaries with different operational ideologies, (nietherof them good),competing for the same large piece of the pie.
I don’t insult you because you apparently disagree with this view, and I see no need for you to insult me in return with your uninformed snark and false representations of what I’m saying.
I didn’t insult you but I don’t need your bullshit condescension either.
Would uninformed snark be better if we talk about how much the US taxpayers are getting screwed through the cia-bcci hamilton bank – Saudi -9/11 financiers manipulations and what effect that has on the Dubai port deals? How about the unholy union that’s forming of the Greens-Neocons-Carlyle Group and intel agencies to continue the fucked up foreign policy that devalues life?
You’ve worn me out.
Good luck!
Rumi, I believe you are on to something. This link and the embedded sub links in the article show that Carlyle definitely has deep interest in war. Bush Senior arranged his “fixer” Baker III to head this “commission?”, since the boy kings ratings have tanked!
I am with Booman on the fact that Jordan, Panetta and O’Connor are okay.
What I’d like to know is WHO in congress voted for this? WHEN did it come up for a vote?
There is this pesky little clause in Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution: No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
I am so ripped about the awful waste of money, that I would like to see a swelling of ranks to DEMAND a full financial statement encompassing ALL DoD expenditures, and the cost of all these special “WHITEWASH” Commissions, since January 2001.
This way we could translate the waste of money into health benefits cuts, school funding cuts, money to states cuts, and etc. Maybe some of the lawyers online could help all of us in the netroots and grass roots file a class action suit(s) against these bloody vampires, who bleed OUR treasury dry, so that eventually some of them may hang for Criminal Fraud by misappropriating taxpayer funds.
Look at what happened to Bunnantine Greenhouse. She blew the whistle on Hali overcharges, the IG found evidence of fraud-disallowing hundreds of millions in payments and the Pentagon reinstated the payment.
I’m beginning to think…again…there is no answer until the ones who profit lose what they have. Mid level private security and tech businesses are making way too much money to let it go. They’re pushing for the same agenda that the top tier that profits globally wants.
I’m truly curious about your take on him.
I don’t think the odious lunatic Daniel Pipes is still a member of the “US Institute for Peace”. If I remember right he’s been gone from there for at least a year.
What’s the secret?
Well, sunshine and rain- plus we fertilize with ground up money and the corpses of our children.
The only answer that that crew will look for is how the end the war while keeping defense spending at war time levels.
exactly.
Let me see if I remember this correctly: Sandra Day O’Connor resigned from the SCOTUS for health reasons/cancer. But, she can be on a panel to ivestigate the bs in Iraq?
And now, representing the best interests of the Bush family and friends.
Yes, Virginia, there IS a 1984.
It started in earnest in 1963, and it will never end until the key is finally turned in the lock that keeps the assassinations of John F. Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr.from public view.
Unbelievably, we still have people who are in the know regarding the beginning of this endless year in positions of power and influence in our government.
If we lose the coming battles for the Congress and Presidency…and by “we” I do NOT necessarily mean “Democrats”…then we can (as the old Mutually Assured Destruction days joke would have it) bend over, put our heads between our knees, and kiss our asses goodbye.
You know those newest images from Salon? The ones from Abu Ghraib?
When I saw them, I thought “If only that was Arlen Specter, Henry Kissinger and George Bush Senior in those positions. Maybe THEN we would recover as a nation. Maybe THEN we would awaken from this nightmare.”
Not until.
If ever.
AG
disgusting….and here I thought that I could go the rest of my life and maybe not have to see his sick HeMan woman hating mug ever again.
sbj – You seem to be implying that I am advocating on Carlyle’s behalf despite my several statements to the contrary in this very thread with you.
Yeah, I guess I am but I didn’t start with that intention. I think the problem I have is that your reasoning on this doesn’t seem logical for everything that’s known about the CG’s operations.
It does appear to me that you are defending the CG and I think there are different arguments that can be made for other areas of their influence. As for the Iraq war, I believe they wanted it and allowed it to go, if not indirectly influencing it. If they really felt it shouldn’t happen, it wouldn’t have.
my comment can’t be sanitized and made fit for a public forum.