The Destroyers Win, If anyone does

I don’t know how many of you watch Charlie Rose on his PBS show, but if you missed last night’s show you missed a lot.

His guest was John Burns, NYT Iraq reporter (on the ground for 4 1/2 years). He is often a short segment guest that Charlie checks in with live from Iraq about the latest happenings on the ground in Baghdad and other areas. John is particularly credible, articulate and talks to as many of the different factions that are involved there that he is able, including top US Military, Iraqi Government insiders, our troops, Iraqi troops, Sunni, Shiite, local citizens, et al. His reports are always sobering and informative far beyond anything we are hearing elsewhere in the media.

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John Burns

Last Night Charlie had John Burns in his NY studio for the hour. It was a very sobering hour during which Mr Burns laid out the complexities and difficulties of what the current situation is.

I can hardly give you any scholarly analysis of the content. Suffice it to say that we are exactly where we all think we are. . .in S**t up to our eyeballs with no satisfactory, doable, or good solution available.

I highly recommend that you educate yourselves by going to Charlie Rose and viewing the program on google video.

There is no sense of feel good about this situation no matter what “we” do this makes the “rock and the hard place” look like a 5 star hotel. You all surely know that I am against all war ever for any reason. And to know what many of us have known from the beginning,
that we should never have gone into Iraq, is no comfort what-so-ever.

John Burns explains in detail who the players are, what their goals and incentives are and emphasizes what any person with any knowledge of this area has known for a long time: This conflict between the religious/tribal factions has been going on for 1300 years and all involved are intent upon continuing it until “their side” wins or is totally wiped out.

On partition, he says it is not at all workable. Even if we could stabilize 3 sovereign provinces or areas, there is still Baghdad which is more secular and filled with people of all 3 influences plus Christians and other persuasions. And all in all, it is his opinion (and mine) that Blood/tribal bonds are stronger than national or country bonds.

This very complex situation (of our making) is a no win for anyone. On the surge… it is his thought that it might and that is a very highly doubtful might, bring a very short term calming down, but it is not sustainable and it will not last. These waring factions have been biding their time over 1300 years (with plenty of waring and battles intermixed over the centuries). . .do we really think they will mind taking a few months or years off to build larger support from their followers, gather more financial and military support from whomever, in effect re-group?

On the other hand, he says the “real” Iraqi people, especially those in Baghdad and nearby areas, are very glad the American troops are there and that they got rid of Saddam. The extremists on all sides want us out of there. The Syrian, Saudi, Jordanian, Iranian interests will flow into Iraq to protect their own sectarian interest as soon as we leave. Blood is thicker than Nationalism. . .remember? They are ALL related to each other.

Even the British finally understood it back in the 20’s or 30’s. . .we cannot win or solve anything here and it is depressing beyond all comprehension that the lives of our young troops and millions of innocent Iraqi’s are the cost of this murderous game.

Go view the video of last night’s show. You will be more informed about actuality on the ground than you ever wanted to be.

Frankly, I don’t even know how to have an opinion about what to do about Iraq. . .our Idiot In Chief has brought down the region, just as those wise people who tried to warn about this have said all along. I can no longer even envision a “solution.”

10 Comments

alohaleezy on January 25, 2007 at 4:51 pm

The only winners in this whole mess are the war profiteers and their cronies. Thee really is no solutuin other than redeploy the troops, do what we can to help Iraqis rebuild and use diplomacy within the region. You cannot just talk to your friends. You MUST talk with the enemy/bad guys too. They are the ones we need assurances from, help from. Mr. GoItAlone needs to be removed from office. Then and only then we will make any headway with this mess.

shirlstars on January 25, 2007 at 5:44 pm

The profiteers are exactly who I see as the destroyers. Along with their enablers in BushCo.

I hope I come to have some small confidence in even redeployed troops being of any help.

Thanks Leezy.
Militarytracy on January 26, 2007 at 9:20 am

Money solves nothing once you get past basic needs. It is their souls that are already destroyed by what they have done and now they must continue to live without one and that is often very very difficult.

idredit on January 25, 2007 at 7:49 pm

And there’s a new mission:

Iraq’s State of DisUnion is all leading to a

Surging into Iran.

shirlstars on January 25, 2007 at 11:43 pm

Sadly, I don’t think surging into Iran is anything new, I think it has been part of the overall plan all along. . .they just had some trouble coming up with a “justification” for it, they used up so many of them for Iraq. But chasing those bad guys back to Iran will work for now. They will do all they can to entice Iran into an attack on our troops and then feel free to nuke them from our carriers that are in the gulf. . .sort of why we have an Admiral now in charge of all combat in Iraq or is it all combat on our war on terror every where and anywhere we want to blow people up.

Thanks for the link id.
Shirl
- idredit on January 26, 2007 at 9:10 am
  
  Seriously,
  
  The War on Iran has begun: There is the,
  
  The Ad campaign Surprised by who’s behind it?
  
  followed by
  
  the ground campaign
  
  Troops Authorized to Kill Iranian Operatives in Iraq
  
  “The Bush administration has authorized the U.S. military to kill or capture Iranian operatives inside Iraq as part of an aggressive new strategy to weaken Tehran’s influence across the Middle East and compel it to give up its nuclear program, according to government and counterterrorism officials with direct knowledge of the effort.”
  
  And the Economic Pincer Move
  
  Israel tries to cut off Tehran from world markets
  
  “Israel is launching a campaign to isolate Iran economically and to soften up world opinion for the option of a military strike aimed at crippling or delaying Tehran’s uranium enrichment programme.
  
  Pressure will be applied to major US pension funds to stop investment in about 70 companies that trade directly with Iran, and to international banks that trade with its oil sector, cutting off the country’s access to hard currency. The aim is to isolate Tehran from the world markets in a campaign similar to that against South Africa at the height of apartheid.[.]
  
  New US strategy on Iran emerges from Davos
  
  [This] brings us to the final and most interesting strand in the anti-Iranian policy nexus: the price of oil.
  
  Iran’s economy depends entirely on oil sales, which account for 90 per cent of exports and a roughly equal share of the Government’s budget. Since last July, a barrel of oil has fallen from $78 to just over $50, reducing the Government’s revenues by one third.
  
  If the oil price fell into the $35 to $40 range, Iran would shift into deficit, and with access to foreign borrowing cut off by UN sanctions, the Government’s capacity to continue financing foreign proxies would quickly run out.
  
  Iran has reacted to this threat by calling on Opec to stabilise prices but, in practice, only one country has the clout to do this: Saudi Arabia. Earlier this month, in a highly significant statement, Ali al-Naimi, the Saudi Oil Minister, publicly opposed Iranian calls for production cuts to halt the decline in prices.[.]
  
  This policy was spelt out with surprising precision in an article by Nawaf Obaid, a senior Saudi security adviser, in The Washington Post: “King Abdullah may decide to strangle Iranian funding of the Iraqi militias through oil policy. If Saudi Arabia boosted production and cut the price of oil in half, the kingdom could still finance its current spending. But it would be devastating to Iran, …[.]
  
  Price of Oil: will be see the reduction at the pump?
  
  But
  Hmmm. Israel appears to be adopting several ideas from a time in South Africa’s Apartheid history

infidelpig on January 25, 2007 at 8:27 pm

Profiteers, Destroyers, one in the same.

We know what they gain, and we know what we loose, and the one’s to blame………

Thanks Shirl.

wado

shirlstars on January 25, 2007 at 11:46 pm

Infedel!! Amen, brother Pig Man, Amen!

Nice to see you drop by here.

Hugs
Shirl

Nag on January 26, 2007 at 8:42 am

Here’s a piece from Asia Times that spells out how the Sunni countries of the Middle East are aligning themselves against Iran, who is freshly empowered by the elimination by the US of two enemies: the Taliban and Saddam. Without lifting a finger, Iran finds itself a major player if not THE major player in the region besides Israel. It’s the new cold war and it’s all about the sectarianism. Bush just had to jab that stick into the hornets nest and he won’t take it out. All Bush’s posturing on Iran is accelerating the sectarian fears. The Middle East is a tinderbox and it’s all the fault of the US.

Thanks for this, Shirl.

shirlstars on January 26, 2007 at 2:23 pm

Thanks for the link, NAG.

Yep, GWB and gang have done a dandy job of stirring up the hornets nest. The cost of those actions will be an anchor around our necks for generations.

If we ever needed an intervention, we need one now.

alohaleezy on January 25, 2007 at 4:51 pm

The only winners in this whole mess are the war profiteers and their cronies. Thee really is no solutuin other than redeploy the troops, do what we can to help Iraqis rebuild and use diplomacy within the region. You cannot just talk to your friends. You MUST talk with the enemy/bad guys too. They are the ones we need assurances from, help from. Mr. GoItAlone needs to be removed from office. Then and only then we will make any headway with this mess.
- shirlstars on January 25, 2007 at 5:44 pm
  
  The profiteers are exactly who I see as the destroyers. Along with their enablers in BushCo.
  
  I hope I come to have some small confidence in even redeployed troops being of any help.
  
  Thanks Leezy.
- Militarytracy on January 26, 2007 at 9:20 am
  
  Money solves nothing once you get past basic needs. It is their souls that are already destroyed by what they have done and now they must continue to live without one and that is often very very difficult.
idredit on January 25, 2007 at 7:49 pm

And there’s a new mission:

Iraq’s State of DisUnion is all leading to a

Surging into Iran.
- shirlstars on January 25, 2007 at 11:43 pm
  
  Sadly, I don’t think surging into Iran is anything new, I think it has been part of the overall plan all along. . .they just had some trouble coming up with a “justification” for it, they used up so many of them for Iraq. But chasing those bad guys back to Iran will work for now. They will do all they can to entice Iran into an attack on our troops and then feel free to nuke them from our carriers that are in the gulf. . .sort of why we have an Admiral now in charge of all combat in Iraq or is it all combat on our war on terror every where and anywhere we want to blow people up.
  
  Thanks for the link id.
  Shirl
  - idredit on January 26, 2007 at 9:10 am
    
    Seriously,
    
    The War on Iran has begun: There is the,
    
    The Ad campaign Surprised by who’s behind it?
    
    followed by
    
    the ground campaign
    
    Troops Authorized to Kill Iranian Operatives in Iraq
    
    “The Bush administration has authorized the U.S. military to kill or capture Iranian operatives inside Iraq as part of an aggressive new strategy to weaken Tehran’s influence across the Middle East and compel it to give up its nuclear program, according to government and counterterrorism officials with direct knowledge of the effort.”
    
    And the Economic Pincer Move
    
    Israel tries to cut off Tehran from world markets
    
    “Israel is launching a campaign to isolate Iran economically and to soften up world opinion for the option of a military strike aimed at crippling or delaying Tehran’s uranium enrichment programme.
    
    Pressure will be applied to major US pension funds to stop investment in about 70 companies that trade directly with Iran, and to international banks that trade with its oil sector, cutting off the country’s access to hard currency. The aim is to isolate Tehran from the world markets in a campaign similar to that against South Africa at the height of apartheid.[.]
    
    New US strategy on Iran emerges from Davos
    
    [This] brings us to the final and most interesting strand in the anti-Iranian policy nexus: the price of oil.
    
    Iran’s economy depends entirely on oil sales, which account for 90 per cent of exports and a roughly equal share of the Government’s budget. Since last July, a barrel of oil has fallen from $78 to just over $50, reducing the Government’s revenues by one third.
    
    If the oil price fell into the $35 to $40 range, Iran would shift into deficit, and with access to foreign borrowing cut off by UN sanctions, the Government’s capacity to continue financing foreign proxies would quickly run out.
    
    Iran has reacted to this threat by calling on Opec to stabilise prices but, in practice, only one country has the clout to do this: Saudi Arabia. Earlier this month, in a highly significant statement, Ali al-Naimi, the Saudi Oil Minister, publicly opposed Iranian calls for production cuts to halt the decline in prices.[.]
    
    This policy was spelt out with surprising precision in an article by Nawaf Obaid, a senior Saudi security adviser, in The Washington Post: “King Abdullah may decide to strangle Iranian funding of the Iraqi militias through oil policy. If Saudi Arabia boosted production and cut the price of oil in half, the kingdom could still finance its current spending. But it would be devastating to Iran, …[.]
    
    Price of Oil: will be see the reduction at the pump?
    
    But
    Hmmm. Israel appears to be adopting several ideas from a time in South Africa’s Apartheid history
infidelpig on January 25, 2007 at 8:27 pm

Profiteers, Destroyers, one in the same.

We know what they gain, and we know what we loose, and the one’s to blame………

Thanks Shirl.

wado
- shirlstars on January 25, 2007 at 11:46 pm
  
  Infedel!! Amen, brother Pig Man, Amen!
  
  Nice to see you drop by here.
  
  Hugs
  Shirl
Nag on January 26, 2007 at 8:42 am

Here’s a piece from Asia Times that spells out how the Sunni countries of the Middle East are aligning themselves against Iran, who is freshly empowered by the elimination by the US of two enemies: the Taliban and Saddam. Without lifting a finger, Iran finds itself a major player if not THE major player in the region besides Israel. It’s the new cold war and it’s all about the sectarianism. Bush just had to jab that stick into the hornets nest and he won’t take it out. All Bush’s posturing on Iran is accelerating the sectarian fears. The Middle East is a tinderbox and it’s all the fault of the US.

Thanks for this, Shirl.
- shirlstars on January 26, 2007 at 2:23 pm
  
  Thanks for the link, NAG.
  
  Yep, GWB and gang have done a dandy job of stirring up the hornets nest. The cost of those actions will be an anchor around our necks for generations.
  
  If we ever needed an intervention, we need one now.

The Destroyers Win, If anyone does

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