I wonder if it occurs to right-wingers that most of the early white settlers to these fair shores were fleeing religious persecution and religious wars.
William Penn, for example, was expelled from Oxford, disowned by his father, imprisoned in the Tower of London, and arrested several more times before being granted land in America as a way to rid the British Isles of the pesky Quakers. And he’s hardly a hard-luck case.
There’s a reason people fled Europe in droves to come to an unsettled country across a deadly sea:
The major impact of the Thirty Years’ War, in which mercenary armies were extensively used, was the devastation of entire regions scavenged bare by the foraging armies. Episodes of widespread famine and disease devastated the population of the German states and, to a lesser extent, the Low Countries and Italy, while bankrupting many of the powers involved. The war ended with the Treaty of Münster, a part of the wider Peace of Westphalia.
During the war, Germany’s population was reduced by 30% on average. In the territory of Brandenburg, the losses had amounted to half, while in some areas an estimated two thirds of the population died. The population of the Czech lands declined by a third. The Swedish armies alone destroyed 2,000 castles, 18,000 villages and 1,500 towns in Germany, one-third of all German towns. Huge damage was done to monasteries, churches and other religious institutions.
There’s a reason that Thomas Jefferson wrote the following in 1782 in his Notes on the State of Virginia:
“Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity…
“…But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
The idea for America was that we would not fight and kill each other over our religious differences anymore. But that doesn’t mean that some of us wouldn’t enslave people because of them.
America as we know it would not exist without religious war and persecution because it wouldn’t have been necessary. And America wouldn’t have been riven in two if Christianity hadn’t served to both justify and to condemn slavery.
And if right-wingers want some evidence that Christians have killed even one person in recent months over their religion, they can go look at Breitbart News’ coverage of the conflict in the Central African Republic:
After Djotodia’s coup took place in March 2013, Muslim Seleka militias began committing atrocities, particularly targeting the Christian constituencies of the deposed Francois Bozizé. In December 2013, French Foreign Legion peacekeeping troops arrived to disarm the Seleka militias, but then the Christian anti-balaka militias “rushed into the vacuum,” and began committing atrocities in 2014, for revenge against the Selekas.
Here’s a less biased source:
By Sudarsan Raghavan February 7, 2014
BANGUI, Central African Republic – Tens of thousands of Muslims are fleeing to neighboring countries by plane and truck as Christian militias stage brutal attacks, shattering the social fabric of this war-ravaged nation.
In towns and villages as well as here in the capital, Christian vigilantes wielding machetes have killed scores of Muslims, who are a minority here, and burned and looted their houses and mosques in recent days, according to witnesses, aid agencies and peacekeepers. Tens of thousands of Muslims have fled their homes.
We can quibble about “who started it” but the reality is plain enough.
Thomas Jefferson would recognize this as quite familiar, but I can’t imagine what he’d think of Fox News and Eric Bolling.
There are so many head-slapping, outrage-du-jour moments in America these days that one is never quite prepared for the next flare-up of boobery and mendacity. The American Right simply cannot allow the mildest and most routine “critical” comment out of the mouth of the hated Obammy to go un-outraged, haha.
If one is actually completely unaware (or willfully ignorant) of Christianity’s bloody history, that’s bad enough. If one is aware of the rivers of blood shed by Christians in the name of Jesus, but thinks that this is now “ancient history”, that’s ignorance compounded with missing Obama’s point. And anyway, who do today’s Christians think was (overwhelmingly) carrying out the 20th century Holocaust against the Jews–Wiccans?
Speaking of the poor Wiccans (real or suspected), they were just another group of victims, apparently another era of American Christian history that today’s Christianists are oblivious about. Jeebus, I KNOW there will be something stupider than this in coming months and years, but the bar keeps getting set ever higher….that’s “conservatism”!
I attended college when I was in my mid 30’s. I fell in love with History courses and I even helped the Professor setup for the classes. I found it very interesting how when we covered the time periods that dealt with religious Wars, persecution of citizens by Churches. How shocked these much younger college students when I made the statement that religion has caused more death and destruction through out history the any other event. These young people stood up and denied it and several left the class when the truth about religion and it’s numerous negative effects on different societies. They just could not handle the truth.
In high school, I found a fascinating history of the religious wars between Catholics and Protestants in France, written by Dumas Pere (the older Dumas; the younger is the more famous; he was half-black, BTW). In this amazing series (it was a number of books), the truly dreadful atrocities of Catholic on Protestant, and visa versa, were chronologued. Things like driving entire villages into the village church, and setting it on fire. Fun stuff. There is nothing more to incite atrocity than religion.
Of course, with the Crusades, there were endless examples of dreadful cruelty and religious murders. The Crusade, after it was announced, would be followed by a general slaughter of the local Jews. They held the notes for the various nobles, and you couldn’t go to kill the infidel Turk with a load of debt in the homeland. After then 2nd Crusade got to Constantinople, they captured and sacked it. Of course, at the time, it was a Christian town. The 1st and 2nd Crusades were the most successful. After those, the others were more ridiculous and idiotic. The Turks eventually figured out how to destroy the Europeans, and did so. Several battles were epic moments of ineptitude and incompetence for the European side.
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” ~ George Santayana
Although “condemned” isn’t quite the right word here; I suspect today’s Christofascists would very much enjoy carrying out auto-da-fes of their chosen heretics.
Modern auto-de-fe-Waco TX-1916
The Hundred Years’ religious wars were one of the proximate reasons for the anti-clericalism of the Enlightenment. The intentional amnesia of the conservative hagiography of the Founding Fathers (capitalized) has become a matter of breathtaking cynicism.
Meanwhile, the Congressional Democrats can even muster a boycott of the speech of a head-of-state who dissed a sitting President of the United States of their own party. The Congressional party leaders either have no control anymore or do not understand how this action betrays the voters who voted for them in spite of their lack of support for Democratic solutions. The donkey is truly dead.
Even Alan Grayson is squishy on this. Only the strong members of the Congressional Black Caucus (including John Lewis) understand the significant bigotry involved in the hissy fit over the National Prayer Breakfast and the sychophantic response to the Republican’s invitation of Netanyahu. We know who think they are the Knesset West and it isn’t just Jewish members of Congress.
There is a race in Congress as to which party is going to be worse. So far the GOP is winning hands down. But the Democrats are working hard trying to outdo them.
But Brian Williams is no longer polluting our airwaves. Good news for David Gregory or Chuck Todd?
Oh, be serious, the Democrats, as spineless as they can be, have been lapped so many times on the track for being the worst that any comparison that ignores that is frankly silly. You’re smarter and better than this comment.
One would hope they would notice when they are being lapped again and not collaborate in blatant bigotry. Netanyahu and Boehner thought that this stunt would be cute purely because President Obama is first black President.
What exactly is the bridge too far for Democrats when it comes to disrespect for the President?
I have the feeling that there’s no party unity, no strategy, and just individual politicians scrambling for the exits.
As for the comment, it’s neither here nor there because it will not change Democratic behavior. And yes, I’m in a funk because of the Netanyahu visit and because we seem to be on a slick slide to military confrontation with Russia–again.
Fair enough. I’m in a serious funk myself or I probably wouldn’t have commented like that. You’re normally so careful and insightful even when I don’t agree with you, that I felt that was pushing it a little far. Mea culpa for overreacting.
I have to think today’s Rep Party would be hard pressed itself to find any shared ideals with any of the Founding Fathers once the bs was shoveled away.
Phooey.
A few decades of Muslim attacks and anybody will fight back, anywhere in the world.
Including Christians in Africa.
The continuing and spreading wave of Muslim violence that more or less started just before the end of the Cold War will continue to cause non-Muslims to organize in self-defense, and they will generally be led by fanatics as bad as the leaders of the Muslims.
Liberals like you will look at all that and declare moral equivalence, much as you looked (and still look) at the Cold War and did the same.
Can you imagine a continental war lasting thirty years in the modern world? I understand that the length of the wars had largely to do with logistics, but still.