Thank you everyone. Sorry I am late getting back to you – us older folks need our sleep, so I just learned about Iowa results this morning. I will answer some of you individually in the comments of my original diary, as I am genuinely impressed with the thoughts brought forward. I have decided to use a new Diary to respond in summary to all your great comments. And in all honesty, I have never used update before and I cannot figure out how to change the title.
In general, the answers given as to WHY in choosing Obama were mostly based on Charisma, Personality and Rhapsody. In summary – He is charming, he makes us feel good, his speeches and writings give us hope!
What I was truly hoping for was substance and depth, as well as strong character attributes. Please – Bear with me here. Now I would like to play Devils Advocate – again no fighting – this is a discussion, not another war.
In fairness, before we go further, a bit about me. I taught many years at the College level. I DO keep up with young people. I have also had the unique advantage of working with the former head of Save the Children, Dave Miller, for 7 years. His cousin was Abby Hoffman. Dave was my touchstone in learning and understanding about the customs, culture and personalities of people from the Middle East and Southeast Asia. Not being one of the top 75 Colleges in the country, Bush I, believe it or not, had recruiters in the most ghastly parts of the world, who would send students, on easy to get I-9 (student) Visa’s, to the lesser rated colleges. We ended up with a 39% ratio to our overall population; mostly from the Middle East, West Africa, the Pacific Rim, and South East Asia.
To address those of you specifically on inspirational reading, no I did not read Obama’s books and let me explain why. Right after the DNC Caucus with all the candidates, I sent each of the Democratic Candidates a list of questions. Some answered, others ignored me. Obama sent me two pictures of himself, in lieu of responses. Rather arrogant I thought, so I decided to wait and see.
Yes, I have read many, many inspirational books, e.g. `The Road Less Traveled’, `The Bagda Gita’ many of Norman Vincent Peale’s books, and I even own a specially translated version of the `Quran’, given to me by students. I have been reading inspirational books from all over the world for well over 25 years.
Again, as to the quality of speeches. Yes there are many very good public speakers. Most recently, Hukabee, James Dobson, Pat Robertson to name a few. Oral Roberts even got his followers to cough up 8 Million dollars in a short span, threatening that otherwise God was going to call him home. Each of these individuals is VERY charismatic and have great personalities, but they use that talent, for what I consider, rather nefarious personal gain. Yet each has a broad, but unfortunately gullible, following and now they receive over 300 Million a year from our tax dollars.
Charismatic, personality, Inspirational, – choose your adjective. In the span of MY lifetime, there have been only TWO world leaders who were charismatic, intelligent, and inspirational. They differed from Hitler, Stalin, even Churchill, and others, who also had those abilities, in that they chose to use those abilities to better their countries and mankind in general.
One was John F Kennedy (whom I met personally, as my father helped out behind the scenes in the Kennedy Organization) Under inordinate pressure regarding the Bay of Pigs JFK put the well being of his people and the world ahead of personal enrichment and called off the invasion of Cuba.(WAR always has such great profit for those few you know). In the end he was murdered for his choices.
The other person is Mikhail Gorbachev, who used `Glasnost’ to break down the walls of communism in Russia. By some miracle, is still alive and still working to better the world for all mankind.
I had several opportunities to meet Benazir Bhutto, at the home of the sons of one of her bothers, who lived in Manchester NH in the late 80’s and early 90’s. While the press portrays Benazir as `charming, likable, warm, I found her to be a demanding, imperious Witch (The W should be a B at the beginning of the last word). I won’t express my opinion of her husband.
So while Charisma may help one advance, and is definitely the frosting on the cake. Competency, experience and intelligence are much more crucial. to REALLY accomplishing anything and moving forward.
Although he likes to portray himself as the NEW JFK, Obama, other than being nearly as young and also a Senator, is NO JFK Obama’s comment about invading Pakistan, on Bhutto’s death left me cold. It also put a tremendous chill on the Pakistani’s who own “Mom and Pop” stores in the Manchester and Concord areas of NH. Juan Cole clearly lays out the challenges of America’s Mid-East conundrum, which must be tackled beginning the first week of the new presidency, or we are really in deep doo doo.
Now on strength of character. Tragedy, and the school of life experience seems to make people either smarter, wiser and more compassionate, or, it breaks them and leaves them angry and bitter. The Left Coaster does an excellent analysis about this topic and Obama. Please read the embedded links. Some of you will recognize Armando (now posting as `Big Tent Democrat’) and other well regarded leaders of the blogosphere.
Honesty, not `Truthiness’ is a characteristic I value above all else. Lies, even small white ones, eventually go to a place where denial sets in, and people do not realize they acquired this attribute. Again, Disingenuous, mendacity, or whatever noun you like, the ability to deceive by any means, can never be fully trusted.
Steve Clemons, a well known MODERATE foreign policy expert, does NOT believe warm and fuzzy Bipartisanship, touted by the Village DC pundits, will work I strongly believe, compromise, tried for damn near 20 years, has gotten us nothing but our teeth kicked in, our lunch money stolen and thousands of soldiers and probably over a million Mid Easterners dead. And strangely, despite not having 60 votes at any point during their period of rule, the Republicans got through most of what they wanted when in control of congress and the WH. Key to getting Republican votes isn’t to come forward sniveling on ones knees asking what the price for the votes is. I suggest the key is to have a president with a strong character, who can aggressively, but intelligently, make the case that the American people deserve health care, deserve lower oil prices, deserve fairer credit card policies – and a president who is willing to go the wall for the millions of us “WE THE PEOPLE”
So I ask each of you to focus your rebuttals on why you think charisma, good speeches, writings, trump character, experience, solid policy, and honesty. Dig deep prior to responding. It’s understood the links in this diary will be read, prior to responding. Lets make a game out of it and the best responses get one of Atrios’s “Ponies”, if I can figure out how to steal one.
As stated earlier, our European allies are stressing publicly, this truly is THE most important election of America’s existence We can either show the world we have matured and learned from our previous mistakes, and are willing to delve deeply into issues, character and strength, or, we can have a crashing end to empire that will be very painful indeed-for all of us.
l think in many ways the hysteria surrounding his candidacy, especially among the younger voters…< 30…is naiveté in action…the kindest expression l can find at the moment.
having cut my political teeth during the 60’s and 70’s, the term co-opted springs to mind. l’m of the opinion, at this stage of the process, that obama has assembled a very media savvy group, and are exploiting the angst that that young people feel, with reason, at the moment. he has mobilized a powerful segment of the population, and is to be commended, but that segment has not proven itself to be reliable at the ballot box. perhaps this has changed, l hope so.
beyond the stirring rhetoric, and soaring oratory, he’s just the latest reincarnation of clinton v 1hillary lite. l worked long and hard on big dogs initial campaign in 92, after having dropped out of politics completely following rayguns election in 1980, going so far as leaving the country for a significant amount of time. l was, and am still, seriously disappointed in his presidency. frankly, l’d prefer to not suffer that again, and l see obama as a very similar president.
ThatBritGuy over at ET had a comment today that sums up my opinion rather nicely:
one need not look much farther than his sound bite, vis a vis a different kind of politics to see a lack of depth, imo.
his bi-partisian rhetoric really makes me question his so called progressive/liberal beliefs. there is no room for negotiation at this point in our nations history, we need a strong and determined voice in the bully pulpit, someone willing to take on the powers that be, both demoRAT and RATpublican. in my opinion, he’s not got what it takes to do that.
imo, he’s spent his time in the senate avoiding issues and difficult votes, preferring to not make waves, as opposed to being actively supportive of issues that l consider important. his foreign policy conduct, especially in regard to his lack of action re: his stewardship of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee’s Subcommittee on European Affairsr, l find particularly disturbing.
another fear is that he made his bones in the rough and tumble world of the chicago machine with all it’s accompanying patronage and deal making. l don’t want deals,and l don’t want conciliatory gestures to the people who have driven this country to the edge of the cliff wrapped up in pretty, hollow rhetoric of in the interests of healing the country. l want serious change, and people in chains, in short l want a fighter. and l do not believe obama meets that basic criteria.
my 2¢, ymmv
lTMF’sA

Wading through your links, and then some, and there is a lot to cover in terms of ground regarding Obama. Almost made me want to vote for Hillary. I don’t know if I will vote…btw. But I’m all about learning about the candidates.
Here is this gem on Obama:
Andrew Sullivan supporting Obama, and wanting to take down Clinton.
From what I am seeing right now of Obama, he has created an illusion:
Because one speaks often of change, does not mean “change” is the primary goal of that person. Often, when someone constantly brings up a particular topic, there can either be an unhealthy obsession, or an underlying fear of the topic, or both.
From what I am seeing of Obama’s stated policies if elected, he fears change, true change.
Edwards: on raising taxes on the rich:
Obama on raising taxes on the rich:
A big fat nothing. He says he’s for eliminating tax breaks for the wealthy and giving them to the middle class, but when you examine his stated policies if elected, nothing there on taxing the rich. This is what he says:
I tried to link to “The Plan”, Obama’s economic plan, but the link doesn’t work. Here is the link:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/ObamaPolicy_Economy.pdf
I was able to link to “The Speech” on his economic policy:
Notice in the speech, he never says he will close “special-interest loopholes and giveaways”. This may be why Wall Street has been willing to embrace him. He derides some aspects of the culture of greed, yet is not courageous enough to demand true change. He does offer tax cuts for the middle class, but if taxes aren’t raised on the rich, well, you all know where that path will lead us.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, if anyone has info on Obama’s plan to raise taxes on the wealthiest.
.
TPM By Eric Kleefeld – September 18, 2007
Barack Obama unveiled his tax plan today, combining his proposal to roll back some of President Bush’s tax cuts on the top earners with tax cuts for middle and lower-income workers. The tax cuts would cost up to $85 billion per year. Obama would also raise the tax rates on capital gains and dividends, and close the carried interest loophole. The overall effect would be to increase the progressiveness of the tax code.
Obama tax plan review
● Democratic Economics Platforms
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
Well he does pander with tax cuts to the middle class. We don’t need anymore freaking taxcuts. Many people need out and out help from their government but nobody needs a tax cut. The dollar is going to collapse this recession will expand the deficit to numbers even the suuplyside idiots won’t be able to ignore.
Then again he does see that interest income and capital gains are severely undertaxed. That is where the majority of revenue was lost when Bush’s criminal taxcuts were passed. Capital gains, dividends and interest should be taxed as income. No average working man is getting a significant break from those cuts. Only the wealthy benefit.
Oui always right there with the info its amazing.
I’m torn on this but hopefully he’ll pander to the middle class and then drop any tax cut stuff period.
Dada, I think the Obama is ducking this a bit but he does see the interest taxation problem. Which benefits the solely the rich. Clinton balanced the budget in 91 with tax increases and then was freaking crucified by Ginrich and the idiots. We lost congress in 92. Have to tread a little lightly as the Repugs do not care about the country’s economic health only there own wallets. We are going to pay in a big way. $100 a barrel oil is only the beginning of the dollars fall.
I think it’s easy for the politically young to latch onto the superficial and idealistic message that Obama brings to the populace — aren’t young people superficial and idealistic by nature? Unfortunately, once you’re out there and PAY ATTENTION, and think out of the box (the TEE VEE that is), you learn that rhetoric and propaganda are supposed to sound convincing, but beneath that sugar coating is a bitter pill indeed.
Obama is a second DLC candidate, Hillary the first, and Edwards the third. If Hil doesn’t make it, Edwards or Obama will. Obama represents corporate amerikkka, takes their money, and is BEHOLDEN to corporate interests, and always will be. (that includes the bomb makers and other weapons companies, aerospace, oil, and military contracting firms — uniform makers, agribusiness, etc.)
He’s no leftie, no radical, and that makes newbees’ feel comfortable — they aren’t going out of the box, and Obama also represents the multi-culti environment they have grown up in that I didn’t 40 years ago. Shit, the man is Caucasian and African! Fits right into the multi-culti world of younger Americans.
That’s why. IMO (not humble).
Because they have looked around, are sick of the status quo, and a ready for a fresh start.
ya know folks, from comments posted, it seems we’re looking for the perfect candidate and we’ll never be satisfied or come together. So let’s keep Bush and the dynasty going.
Some opine there are no progressives in this race. Well, Yglesias directs us to Hillary Clinton’s aides on the attack in New Hampshire:
Just imagine. A dem denigrating another as too liberal. Says a lot about the Clinton camp doesn’t it?
Also, I recommend we review the Clinton years by Robert Parry on what we’re leaving behind.
Bush-Clinton Duopoly Loses in Iowa
Something historic is happening. We’ve truly turned a page and should all be proud.
Let’s not be blinded. We have a political insurrection here. Let’s not embrace the staus quo. The Clintons have not been good for the party. Do read the whole Parry piece.
Also, Obama’s Iowa caucus win has telegraphed a message around the world that puts America in a different light. Whatever your skin-tone, it’s Damn Unbelievable.
Agreed. Obama warts and all.
New Rasmussen Poll in N.H. has Obie 10 points ahead.
Believe in Hope. Change
NYT has more on the Clinton fatigue via Andrew Sullivan