And missing lots of trees and the freaking forest as well.
Two articles. The New Yorker, David Remnick’s Obama Reckons with a Trump Presidency and The Intercept, Glenn Greenwald’s The Stark Contrast Between the GOP’s Self-Criticism in 2012 and the Democrats Blame-Everyone-Else Posture Now
Those that have President Obama up on a giant pedestal and believe that the Democratic Party is still swell will love Remnick’s piece. It’s not without real merit and I appreciated that he does highlight and reinforce the “No Drama Obama” perception (or is it a meme?). After nine years on the national public stage, I’ve never seen any reason to doubt the President Obama’s equanimity is anything other than authentic. Evident in many of his candid and not so measured comments in the article. The quality of his basic temperament was, IMHO, a major factor in why he beat Clinton in the primaries and McCain in the general and has continued to figure into his favorable public opinion ratings. Given a choice between a hot-head and one with a calm but not weak demeanor, a majority of the electorate will choose the latter. Particularly when it’s combined with a wry and sometimes witty sense of humor. (That was one of the keys to the success of the senile Reagan.)
Unfortunately, Obama’s equanimity may also have been his Achilles heel. (Combined with his high self-regard.) He would be the bi-partisany President that Democrats since 1972 believe is what the majority wants and most importantly, what they’ll vote for.
It’s as if Obama learned nothing from his 2008 campaign, but perhaps his campaign was too much of a marketing effort and nothing below the superficial was worth bothering with or reflecting on after the fact.
(As I said in a comment a few days ago, winners that don’t study why they won, all too quickly find themselves in the loser’s circle. A mere two years later after both of Obama’s presidential wins.)
Obama covers the Henry Louis Gates, Jr. issue and from this angle: The biggest drop that I had in my poll numbers in my first six months had nothing to do with the economy. It was `the beer summit.’ Regardless of whether or not that was the sole, or even a major, reason for his loss of public support at that time (and I don’t buy that because congressional Democrats were getting an earful from their constituencies in the summer of 2009 on jobs and the economy and after reporting that to Obama, he dismissed their concerns), had he handled the Clinton and media attacks on him over Rev. Wright the way he handled the Gates matter, he would have lost the nomination.
Some seemingly small matters are embedded in large issues that vex this country and the world. Deflecting that small with a two or three sentence response, regardless of the correctness of those sentences, can not only not make it go away but also make that small seem larger and on its own, important. From the campaign trail that’s exactly what he did until he seized the opportunity to confront the raw politically driven brouhaha to confront it head-on and in its largest scope in his televised A More Perfect Union speech. Brilliant, but one great speech — with an implicit message that this is something we need to talk about — doesn’t make the broad issue go away. The Henry Louis Gates, Jr. arrest called for another “we need to talk about this” speech. Not a private “beer summit” with Obama and Biden acting like conflict resolution counselors between the two parties. The outrageousness of being arrested for doing nothing other than having difficulty in getting into one’s own home isn’t beyond the ability of most Americans to appreciate and have empathy for anyone put in Gates’ position. If its properly articulated as something that could happen to anyone under the right circumstances and at the right time.
Nobody told him that his job as the first black President would be easy and as that person he would need to address one issue again and again as it surfaced in various guises. And do so with the same gravity, thoughtfulness, and on the largest possible venue so that the “let’s talk about this matter” doesn’t end up as a sound-byte that opponents can use for their own advantage. The conciliatory “beer summit” may have contributed to further feelings of being disrespected within the law enforcement community. Not because in words Obama put the police officer in the wrong, but because the staging of the “summit” implied that to police officers.
Belaboring the “beer summit” as a criticism of Obama is not the reason I’ve done it. The Gates’ arrest and subsequent handling of it by the WH is of minuscule importance. Perhaps, a lost opportunity for Obama and the country, but not much more. What is disturbing is that over seven years later Obama cites it as the reason his poll numbers dropped and denies any responsibility on his part for this outcome. While my guess is that it was completely unintentional on Remnick’s part, Obama’s own words repeat his “denial of responsibility” for negative outcomes.
That is particularly disturbing as it appears along with signifant inflation of Obama’s Presidential accomplishments.
…we accomplished as much domestically as any President since Lyndon Johnson in those first two years. But it was really hard.”
Wrong. Only someone that doesn’t have even a superficial understanding of LBJ’s domestic accomplishments would view Obama’s in the same league as Johnson’s. Correct that it was “really hard” for Obama, but LBJ spent eight more years toiling and tilling the soil in the Senate before he made his move for the WH than Obama had. Unlike Obama, he didn’t get lucky in his first run for a Senate seat and had to cool his heels for seven years in the House before he could make another run at that. When he did go for the big job, he was knocked down by a young whippersnapper and then accepted the consolation prize of VP and was humiliated by JFK’s inner circle after that. And when he did get there, he wasted no time in getting going on his agenda because it wa still “really hard.”
That comment and other comments in the article reveal that Obama doesn’t know what progressivism is and uses it interchangeably with liberal and Democrat.
Obama insisted that there were gifted Democratic [progressive] politicians out there, but that many were new to the scene. He mentioned Kamala Harris, the new senator from California; Pete Buttigieg, a gay Rhodes Scholar and Navy veteran who has twice been elected mayor of South Bend, Indiana; Tim Kaine; and Senator Michael Bennet, of Colorado.
Kaine and Bennet progressives? Oh, dear.
Remnick is on solid ground in the first part of this excerpt:
Obama is a patriot and an optimist of a particular kind. He hoped to be the liberal Reagan, a progressive of consequence, but there are crucial differences.
Then he goes off into how Obama is more more intellectually sophisticated. That Obama publicly asserting that America is the exceptional world nation for eight years now, he doesn’t really see it that simplistically. What Remnick chose to ignore is that to be a “liberal Reagan,” a President would have to go about the task of dismantling what Reagan Republicans had built. Except they haven’t built anything. Their agenda has been to tear down and rip apart what Democrats built from 1933 through 1973. Obama’s “Grand Bargain” was furthering the objectives of the so-called Reagan Revolution. As neither Remnick nor Obama seems to understand that, it’s not surprising that the 2016 election results stunned them.
What is revealed about Obama is that he’s in line with other elite Democrats in blaming others and scapegoating for Democratic Party failures of their own making. He soft-peddles some of the blame game compared to others currently so engaged, but not when it comes to Putin. He asserts as fact that Putin and Russia were instrumental in the election losses. Even if true (and I’m still a “doubting Thomas” on this because the requisite tech capacity required to break into the DNC and Podesta emails isn’t all that rare or even high level), maybe he should have reconsidered treating Putin with raw contempt from day one. He’s not quite old enough to have absorbed and fully integrated a blind hate for all things Russian from the Cold War propaganda. So, where did he get this antipathy?
One odd note from Remnick:
The party of F.D.R. and Robert Kennedy was at its weakest point in decades and had been cast as heedless of the concerns of white working people.
In real time, nobody ever referred to the DP as the “party of FDR and Robert Kennedy.” Diehard Kenney supporters may have spoke as if it were the FDR and JFK party, but that wouldn’t even have been accepted by all Democrats. That sentences says something about Remnick, but I don’t know what it is.
———
Greenwald adequately addresses why the Democratic Party is in serious need of a thorough and analytically tough review of what went wrong in the 2016 election and all the prior elections as far back as four decades ago. He’s correct that the GOP did perform such a review after the 2012 elections and issued a sobering, hard-facts report. However, praising the GOP for their effort is a bit like praising the CIA for its Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US. Both ended up in the round file because their was no buy-in among decision-makers for what was being said. Even with GOP openness and willingness to change, they had no clue as to how to effect it without losing the next election, more likely several future elections, and conceding power is simply not how the GOP rolls.
(Greenwald gets a C for this effort or far below whatever grade I would have given Remnick for his piece.)
As Obama’s comments in Remnick’s article should make very clear, the Democratic Party decision-makers believe the party is just fine. That fmr SOS was a good candidate and ran a good enough campaign. The only reason Clinton lost was unfair interference by … and Republicans got lucky because an ignorant loose cannon seized control of their party. We can win back power (even as it’s been eroded in the last three national level elections and for much longer at the state level) by doing more of the same, only effecting it much better.
This attitude is common to institutions. Oh sure, when they’ve had a major setback or have been in a slump for some time, they all commission a review or study and get a report. Outside consultants are hired by larger institutions to perform the task. (Recall that the Pentagon Papers was Robert McNamara’s order for a review of the Vietnam War. Deep-sixed when completed.) If, and that’s a big if, the report details serious changes that can and must be made for the survival or renewed growth of the institution, the buy-in hurdle is enormous. Not infrequently because the smarty-pants consultants don’t know what they’re talking about. But mostly because there are too many high level stakeholder in not rocking the boat and they all aren’t about to go quietly into the good night (although many would welcome a recommendation to can those they view as troublesome nemeses).
A modern day FDR could try to seize control of the Democratic Party and would be beaten back. That’s not going to change as long as the big money keeps rolling into the coffers of the national party and those occupying the congressional seats with some power as the minority party. (Soros has been holding his post-election summit and David Brock has issued the invitation to his.) As we’ve seen, change is even more intractable when the DP has its brief periods of being in the majority. Democratic voters get one message: STFU and 1) don’t make us lose what little power we have and get to work to get us more power or 2) protect our majority even if you think we’re a bunch of DINOs because the GOP is craaazy.
This is the thinking of the 2016 Democratic Party; Chuck Schumer July 2016
He suggested that the electorate’s sense of economic gloom was actually working to his party’s advantage: “The electorate is moving in a more Democratic direction. When middle class incomes decline, people tend to move in a more progressive direction.”
…
…”For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”
IOW, pray for economic gloom and for Republicans to rescue the Democratic Party. (And people have the audacity to accuse me of being cynical.)
Guess it will be safe to point out the deliberate framework of Republican neoliberal programs and how they are designed to be taxpayer moneypits.
Seeing that upcoming in Trumps infrastructure schemes.
Not to confuse or disturb partisans, perhaps we should use R-neoliberal and D-neoliberal to differentiate between who initiated and who passed the garbage. There are some differences between the attack points that D and R go after. (Well, not so much for Bill Clinton; his was nearly all R-neoliberal.) Still, it won’t stop those that claim neoliberal has no meaning and only sloppy, ignorant leftiss use the term.
I expect nothing but bad out of the Trump thugs. But perhaps their ignorance and incompetence will minimize whatever they can manage to complete.
What I hope for is that this will Americans (both sides) fascination with no political experience (and usually ignorant nincompoops as well) wanna-be-presidents. While lightweight political creds (time pubic office and/or accomplishments in office) are better than whatever a neophyte has to offer, that’s not good enough and should be shunned — with a “come back and ask again a few years from now when you might know what they hell you’re talking about.
LOL Yep.
Marie3, no desire to get into a pissing match about “neoliberal”, but I think you’re perhaps being overly analytical about parsing the uses of that term. My own feeling is that for many users of the term on this blog, “neoliberal” has been emptied of meaning and has devolved into a term of abuse. This seemed pretty apparent during the months of mounting rancor as November 8 approached. Good lord, I was reading stuff in which Hillary Clinton was condemned as simultaneously a neoliberal and a neoconservative (the latter another term of abuse). I get that the very careful writer might use those terms simultaneously, with “neoliberal” expressing economic dogma and “neoconservative” expressing a foreign-policy perspective. I’d say that you’re a pretty careful writer. I would not say that for a number of other purveyors of “neoliberal”.
I sincerely hope you are correct about the ignorance and incompetence of the “Trump thugs” being their undoing, but I am not sanguine about this prospect. Trump combines ignorance with a complete contempt of democratic norms. When did we last have a president who manifested this sort of contempt? Not in my lifetime. Not even that venal bastard Richard Nixon.
Many people throw out “neoliberal” and “neoconservative” as a pejorative. As is highly likely that the speaker doesn’t fully, or for some even partially, comprehend the meanings and how those political positions operate in reality. However, have yet to seem anyone using them inappropriately in applying them the public figures. Thus, they aren’t ignorant, even if they rely on those with a better understanding as guides.
Your comment reminds me of something Chalmers Johnson said in one the books in his trilogy. In the 1960s he was a Japan, and to a lesser extent, Asian expert. A Berkeley professor who consulted with the CIA. His real time opinion of the DFHs and anti-Vietnam War protesters was the they were ignorant and naive. Some were because it was hip. Some were glomming onto a position because they were draft age vulnerable. However, many had done their freaking homework and/or listened to those that had done the work. And seriously, how much education does need to recognize that there was something seriously wrong with a war for which the USG used slogans instead of logical rationales.
In public forums, again in real time, Johnson used his stature as someone with superior knowledge to dismiss those in the anti-war movement and offered complicated evidence and rationales as to why the war was appropriate. So, he didn’t come like the knee-jerk war mongers. Yet, he still infuriated me because I wasn’t ignorant and the war was the wrong. While back then it was suspected that Johnson did work for the CIA and/or Pentagon, it wasn’t an acknowledged fact. A couple of decades later, he had an epiphany. All his knowledge was useless because he was blinded by the Cold War. That’s what led to his further study that resulted in his trilogy that include his mea culpa.
While the thought or world view embedded in “neo-conservative” and neo-liberal originated about the same time without the terms being used, the former gained public acceptance more quickly because it exploited the divide within the Democratic Party base. The latter did a round about from ostensibly liberal thinkers to the GOP as the means or the road-map to do what the GOP had failed to accomplish over forty years. What was required was to make a piecemeal sale to Democratic VIPs and the general public by employing simplistic language that sounded sensible.
Apparently, I have more faith in the basic decency of Americans than you do. They can get it either by having it explained to them or experientially through very negative outcomes from “doing it the President’s way or the way forward promulgated by one of both political parties. On the right, Trump succeeded because those that lean right acknowledged the Bush failures. They couldn’t shift left because whatever real differences that exist between the D and R VSPs have been blunted and the candidate an offer in ’16 was unacceptable to them.
Trump himself with fail, but the open question is whether he succeeds in dragging the D party and its politicians down and the country and world with him. Numerous examples of how GOP politicians accomplished that beginning in the mid-1970s. Democratic politicians seem to be incapable of explaining or better still, providing the narrative that people can hear. Bryon Dorgan succeeded on cogent explanation as to why repealing Glass-Stegall was a terrible idea, but he wasn’t heard and nationally a majority of Democrats favored whatever Bill Clinton supported. Gore adequately explained why invading Iraq was a terrible proposal but he too was dismissed by DP VSPs. Demonizing Trump is no substiture for explaining and story telling. Right now Trump is telling a story. Not a good one because it’s nothing more than a bull in a china shop, but when half the people have come to loathe the shop owner and china manufacturers, getting rid of both does fill the vacuum.
Democratic politicians seem to be incapable of explaining
They have run out of new bottless for the same old whine “We’re better than the alternative”.
The only growth happening is going to Hillary’s Wall St. cronies, Silicon Valley, National Security, and deathware.
How can you keep spinning that to flyover country and the Rust Belt, coalmining communities and the bible-thumpers after so many years of seeing jobs leave for abroad and gone to automation?
The only solution so far? Hire better liars!
That’s why Hillary was chosen. Even El Trumpo didn’t make up whoppers as egregious as telling she was attacked at the airport.
The public may be dumbed down in many ways, but they have some intuition left.
What folks love about Bernie is how rumpled and real he was compared to the rest.
Unfortunately too many can’t tell the difference between glitter and gold, and went for the glitter.
Now it’s Rhinestone Cowboy’s turn to boss around the sandbox, all because the Dems had sold voters out with Bill and Barack repeatedly and kicked Sanders in the nuts when he offered them a chance at rebirth.
Running a lesser good against an even greater evil was never going to be a shrewd move, especially when they can’t seem to come up with any epically great liars lately.
Obama-calibre or better.
So this is pretty brilliant:
It’s why people who make predictions based on demographics or ideology are always over confident. Michael Dukakis lost because he could not explain in 2 sentences what happened with Willie Horton.
That skill, the ability to turn off a minor controversy in a sentence, seems so crucial. Obama’s election was meant to be about racial reconciliation – that he was unable to bring that about – no one can – did hurt his perception.
The quote you highlight is revealing – meant to convey an underlying direction in the shape of a progressive future. This is behind much of Obama’s thinking – a confidence about the shape of the future that regards people like Trump and Putin as bumps in the road that will lose in the end.
It reminds me of a quote from Arthur Schlesinger about the promise of JFK – of an America no longer trapped in “Bourgeois culture”.
Elite educational institutions – I went to grad school at one – convey a certain world view. A kind of moralistic progressivism intertwined with a sense of condescension. It explains much of Obama’s thinking: technocratic and driven by the social sciences. It is why he is for free trade – that is what the academy teaches is right – I have no doubt he believes in it.
The condescension teaches that the uneducated are unenlightened. But it really keeps those who imbibe the teaching from listening. It causes disagreement to be ascribed to bigotry or a failure to study hard enough.
Of course he is wrong: he only went to XXX State.
For all his failures Clinton never fell into the trap at a personal level. Or if he did he hid it. But both Hillary and Obama were steeped in it.
And it blinded them and us. The technocrats missed the urgency of the moment in ’09 and then missed how big the consequences of that failure are. It blinds us even now: many seem unable to leave the safe cocoon and look at reality.
An example. During the campaign Trump suggested crime was getting out of control. The social scientists said no, you are wrong. Crime is going down.
But the social scientists never connected the dots. In places where the opiod epidemic was ending lives, arguing crime is declining is actually absurd.
I think the whole Dem establishment has that blind spot–distribution.
Yes, you just highlight something for that I left at the level of “we need to talk.” Story telling that practically anyone can understand that doesn’t patronize and isn’t condescending.
All of them use sound-bytes to hit an emotional nerve and then people blindly follow that “gut” sense. Obama does seem better than most politicians at recognizing how those sound-bytes operate on “conservatives,” and has a glimmer of awareness how the same thing is done on the left. (Not his own practice of it, but none of us are all that good at seeing what we don’t like and can analyze in others.)
I’m reminded of Obama’s “eat your peas” and other daddy knows best scolding of AAs. Somewhat surprised that he didn’t attempt to craft it into a story/narrative. Not just for AAs but everyone. Wonder if that was how FDR’s fireside chats were delivered and received.
To avoid misinterpretations, I’m referencing Obama not to single him out for criticism but to use him as an example of how far short Democrats in general fall. Also, we can’t put the whole burden of the work/talks on one person. And Obama wasn’t always the right person to lead some of those needed talks during the past eight years. For example, the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre. As President standing, mourning, grieving with the families and all those shared in this was appropriate. Then, “we as Americans need to talk about guns and violence and how and why guns and violence lead to such unspeakable tragedies. I wish I were the person that could initiate such a national dialogue, but I’m not. Someone better than me is needed and I hope and pray that person graces us with his or her presence and voice ASAP.” I have no idea what that story would be, other than knowing that repeating the story of the latest mass killing isn’t cutting it.
Michael Dukakis lost because he could not explain in 2 sentences what happened with Willie Horton.
Could anyone? If my memory is correct, even though it was touted as fairly successful by liberals, there were numerous critical news stories in Massachusetts led by the Lawrence Eagle-Tribune. The program had a very lax mechanism for correcting any mistakes by its accelerated reintroduction into society. Horton was on furlough just a little over a decade after his brutal stabbing murder of a gas station attendant. Horton left his victim to bleed to death.
They had months to prepare for it, since Gore asked about the program, with no mention of Horton specifically, right before the New York Primariy. Lee Atwater racialized it. Chris Matthews still occasionally blames the race baiting on Gore and chastises the Democrats for pointing out it was Atwater and Bush.
Bill Clinton went to public school in a small Arkansas town. That gave him an understanding of ordinary people that was priceless.
Yes indeed.
So that he could use them better.
The prime directive in con games?
Bet on it.
Politics is mostly just legalized con artistry.
Why is it legal?
Because the politician cons make the rules.
Duh.
Mark Twain knew this well over 100 years ago.
Absolutely nothing has changed except the size of the con.
Witness this latest PermaGov tap dance:
Biden changes tune on Trump administration: ‘Everything will be in good hands’
Right out in broad daylight!!! Two old con men making nice after the marks have been fleeced.
Twain again:
Yup.
AG
maybe [Obama] should have reconsidered treating Putin with raw contempt from day one. He’s not quite old enough to have absorbed and fully integrated a blind hate for all things Russian from the Cold War propaganda. So, where did he get this antipathy?
This article may give you an answer to that question. The basic idea is that Obama has a vision of the West as multicultural, and Russia is the only Western country (in the sense that it is part of European civilization) that has the power to resist multiculturalism. I won’t say any more or quote from that article because I don’t want to get banned.
That’s certainly part of it. Also relevant is that Putin is an autocrat who has been supporting right-wing movements across the West in order to weaken NATO.
Interesting website.
Figment of imagination …
Putin has been supporting right-wing movements across the West in order to weaken NATO
Care to back this statement with arguments, examples or a link to an excellent article?
Looking at most of “New Europe”, it’s the other way around … fascist states allied with Nazi Germany against communism, participating in massacres of Jewish fellow citizens and functioning as a spearhead for US intelligence against communism after the defeat of Nazi Germany – see Gladio. Now used by the CIA in the coup d’état in Ukraine in Februari 2014.
Ahhh … searched for it myself, a paper written earlier in 2016 … how convenient!
○ Putinism and the European Far Right | IMR|
The paper, authored by Alina Polyakova, Ph.D., deputy director of the Dinu Patriciu Eurasia Center at the Atlantic Council , was originally presented at the 2015 ASEEES Annual Convention.
Policy set by the Atlantic Council years ago: make Russia a pariah state. Written about it many times. BS and more western propaganda. The West has aligned itself with jihadists across the globe, Chechnya included. Same as in Afghanistan, these terrorists were called “freedom fighters”. See John McCain in northern Syria with same cutthroats.
Absolutely outrageous! See her twitter account with followers/participants Anne Applebaum and former and now discredited Poland’s FM Radoslaw Sikorski.
Pitiful and so uninformed!
I’m glad I don’t need to do research for you into whether Putin is an autocrat or whether he really wants to weaken NATO.
Normally, you are well aware of global stories so I find it odd you seem unfamiliar with this trend. Since you consider it a figment of my imagination I’m not inclined to indulge you here.
These guys are so forgone man. I didn’t agree with Booman in his talk of Pravda, but now I totally agree with him. It felt inflammatory for some aspects of it before because I didn’t agree with US policy, but now it’s overtaken every aspect of their being with respect to Syria and Russia as a whole.
Well, I just find it strange that critics of American imperialism and war crimes now provide cover for Russian imperialism and war crimes. Everything is a Western conspiracy and Russia must be defended at all costs.
We can be critics of the excesses of both nations’ foreign policies without everything said being dismissed as anti-Russian or anti-American.
Yes. Exactly.
If you’re going to throw out claims such as Russian imperialism and war crimes. in your criticism of anti-imperialist US lefties, back it up with evidence.
Exactly what countries has Russia taken over in the past twenty years? And I don’t want to hear about Crimea. It’s analogous to US naval bases in Japan — and if Japan suddenly aligned itself with China and said, “we’re taking over your military bases and we don’t care what seventy year old agreements we had with you,” do you really think the US would say, “okay — we’re out of here?”
Do you have any idea how many military installations scattered throughout the world the US has? Thousands.
As for war crimes — please present the list under Putin. Considering those of the US in the past twenty years, none of which any senior US official has been held to account for, sure hope your list is longer and more significant than ours. (Don’t neglect to include the hundreds of thousands that died in Iraq under the Clinton/Albright “oil for food” program.
Sorry, I won’t be doing research for you as you’ve limited the terms of the discussion and made it an issue of the US versus Russia. That’s not a game I’m ever interested in playing with internet lefties.
That is a giant cop-out, ishmael. Marie pinned you. Put up or shut up.
AG
Is that what she did, Arthur? I wasn’t going to get into it but since you’ve decided to join the “leftiness” choir I’ll clue you in.
Marie asked for the list of Putin war crimes. How far in the bubble do you have to be to forget that the Russian Air Force has been bombing civilians in Syria for over a year now.
She proved my point with her response. A certain type of lefty only considers it indiscriminate killing war-crimes when its an American airplane dropping the bombs.
Oh wait.. the casualties are just collateral damage, right?
What’s the difference between Fallujah and Allepo, Arthur?
Wake the fuck up.
The “differences” between the two guilty nations are ones of scale and intent, ishmael2. And while I am at it…would there even be mass civilian casualties and human suffering in the Middle East if the U.S. had not pursued its Blood For Oil wars there since Bush I?
I think not. Just the usual push-and-pull between minor states.
It’s on us, ishmael2. Sorry, but there it is.
AG
Arthur, do you even know why we’re having this discussion?
It happened because Marie’s head exploded because I dared to put US, Russia, war-crimes, and imperialism in the same sentence.
This type of lefty is as guilty of looking at the world in a US-centric fashion as anyone else. If you’re only going to pay attention to US misdeeds then you’re not much of a lefty.
If you’re going to ask for proof of Russian war-crimes but then go silent when reminded that Russian bombs have killed thousands of civilians in just the last year, then you’re a selective lefty.
Arthur, you’re as guilty of the same deflective “leftiness” crap as the others. No shit, the US started all of this with its wars in the ME. Is that your default response to every thing that happens there?
Search for my rants here against our host in the archives because left-leaning bloggers are silent about some of Obama’s terrible foreign policy decisions. You’ll see some of Marie’s 4-ratings on my posts.
I’m as willing as anyone here to call out the US when it does evil stuff like supporting Saudi Arabia bomb Yemen to shit or stupidly arm rebels in Syria. Don’t get pissy when other nations get called out for their destructive behavior.
All I’m asking for is some consistency.
Why should we “lefties” respond to anyone wearing blinders that prevents seeing more than a millimeter in front of their eyes where they can only take in mainstream American PR.
Can you not even discriminate between a foreign power invading a country and a foreign power being asked to come to the aid of an allied country? Technically, what are considered war crimes are nearly impossible to avoid by the most responsible of those that enter an armed conflict as an invited defender. I’m sure we wouldn’t have to look hard to find US war crimes in France during WWII. And we know such crimes were perpetrated by the allies in Germany and Japan. (The fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo are in that category.) In wars, defenders aren’t held to the same standards as aggressors because they aren’t responsible for the existence of the armed conflict.
Pure pacifists (who only number in a few thousand compared to the seven billion in the world) would never under any circumstances kill another human being or not object to those that kill in their name. For everyone else, killing in self-defense is supported and allowed. It’s the rationale used by LEOs whenever they shoot and kill anyone and even when the evidence that they were under threat is non-existent, almost all are given a pass.
Citing Russia in Syria during the past betrays your ignorance of that conflict. And the US has been bombing there as well — and only a fool would claim that US bombs didn’t hit innocent civilians. So, in this instance, if you are going to assign “doing evil stuff” to Russia, then in the same breath you have to say the same thing about the US.
How many times was Yemen raised as an issue during the year and a half long presidential election cycle? How many times was Russia, Iran, and Syria raised? Good on you for describing the US support for KSA’s aggression in Yemen as “evil stuff.” But once again, being on the side of an aggressor is at the leading edge of what should be condemned. And how many Americans are aware of this? Was it even reported in the US that Russia rescued Americans trapped in Yemen?
Jake Tapper tweet:
Glenn:
Obama does like to look forward and not back. But it was in his interest to look away from the BushCo and bankster thugs — and it we’re completely honest, their behaviors made his presidency possible. However, his publicly stated beliefs, offered as fact and not belief, about Russian interference in the jeopardizes his legacy which he’s so keen to preserve that he stumped for HER.
My question was more rhetorical than looking for an answer. IMHO it’s an article of faith (not for public consumption) of the Clinton party and Obama adopted it as his own because he lack knowledge/education in that area and it filled that blank. Still interesting that it’s so visceral for him because he’s generally quite skilled at masking his personal feelings.
IMO that article goes on those leaps of fantasy about Obama that others such as Souza have made. It’s hogwash. Obama is a product of diversity and of course it feels natural for him, but to posit that he wants to remake the world into a rainbow in every hollow and city hellhole is to say that in this one area he cares and is also stupid, ignorant, and monomaniacal. He’s just running with something that he knows and thrills the liberal intelligentsia. A crowd hooked on its own self-importance and are low in racial/gender bigotry but high on class bigotry. As the latter must be preserved, they are left with shoving the former onto the masses so that they are kept busy resisting a seeming injunction not to be so low class and overlook that wealth and power is the real dividing line.
The white liberal class plus POC who hear their diversity speak and take that to mean that the liberal class is on there side was projected to keep them in power for a few decades. Surprise! A tough talking, ignoramus with the vocabulary of a ten year old bested the nannies with graduate level vocabularies that not even most Democrats if they listened understood all the big words, much less the meaning of what was being said.
Diversity is simply more interesting, but most people prefer boring.
I don’t think it’s personal. Obama inherited the hostility towards Russia, just as he inherited the all of the US alliances and hostilities.
Russia was on friendly
Apologies, hit post by mistake.
Russia was on friendly terms with the US when Putin came into power. The Moscow bombings were treated as Chechnian terrorism and any other theories were treated as conspiracy theories. The war in Chechnya was treated as Russia restoring order and western governments collaborated in keeping information from Chechnya from forming a narrative of Russian aggression. Just as is done today with Saudi Arabia’s war in Yemen.
From what I can tell, the new cold war started when Russia nationalised oil and gas.
I would say when he invaded Ukraine, but most here do not believe that ever happened. They probably still believe that Chinese troops in the Korean war were volunteers.
He didn’t, but that doesn’t seem to compute for some.
it is in both their interests to appear not to get along. is there any basis for thinking the don’t? they did/ do spend a lot of time on the telephone [they were talking on the telephone when the plane was shot down; that’s how Obama learned about it] and worked out some major agreements together, but who knows?
I have another view of “why” Obama acted as he did…mistakes and not-so-mistakes.
The best early description of Back Obama came In The Village Voice dated January 16, 1996. Adolph Reed Jr. (currently a professor of political science at the University of Pennsylvania and formerly of Northwestern University, where he met the up and coming Obama.) said of Obama:
My own take on Obama has been that helargely is blocked by his own self-regard…a truly gifted man whose gifts caused him to become a narcissist. And why not? Kind of understandable if you look at where he came from, his African/Muslim name and his rapid and steady ascent into the upper classes of academia and later politics.
And therein lay his downfall.
The whole word is not “like him,” but he thought that he could talk people into it.
Shallow, for all his gifts.
Maybe he simply spread himself out too thin in order to be able to get over in the academic/power politics/corrupt DNC worlds.
I repeat:
Like dat.
Once Trump gets through trashing the (still rickety) “liberal” social efforts that Obama did manage to get through RatPublican opposition, his legacy is going to be that of a failed president with good intentions.
Good intentions, those paving stones on the road to hell of which we have all been warned so many times.
Gotta have good tactics, too.
Not just good looks and a glib tongue..
AG
Reed’s opinion, from two decades ago, has been spread far and wide on the internet for the past eight years. What makes it problematical for me is that he chose to hold Obama to some standard different from that of white centrist/corporate Democrats. Bill Clinton isn’t an arrogant narcissist? GMAFB.
What’s problematical for me is that his critique sounds so race-based. How many AA politicians or wannabe politicians aren’t envious of Obama’s ability to hustle both AAs and whites? The rich white guy, Trump, hustled white people of every stripe. (And Mitt is green with envy that his white-Xtrian-folk hustle wasn’t as successful.)
At least half the members of Congress wouldn’t be there today if voters weren’t so easy to hustle by race, gender, birth-class, etc. Almost all promise the same thing and almost none deliver. While Obama didn’t succeed in getting elected to the House, the authentic progressive Jesse Jackson, Jr. did, but that didn’t end up working out well either. It’s tough to remain a progressive living on an upper-middle class income while most of those around one are living so high on the hog.
Reed was writing from a black, inner city political perspective. Nuts and bolts. Day to day help!!! He wanted better representatives for the people in depressed neighborhoods of Chicago. What did those neighborhoods eventually get from Obama? Emanuel Rahm.
“The Rahminator”
That says it all.
Reed didn’t know Obama was going to be president! He was pissed that Obama was part of an establishment movement that was taking over black politics and social action in general. He…rightfully, as it turns out…distrusted Obama’s sincerity and commitment to the neighborhoods of Chicago, and sensed that he was on the make for himself.
AG
I get that (and still don’t like it), but he was also writing at the time Obama was a state senator. So, the question is what did that district get from the prior and subsequent state senator compared to what Obama “brought home” during his tenure? Reed doesn’t say and builds his case on the fact that Obama isn’t of the black community and culture.
We all want better representation, and more often than not the choice is between not much or less.
AAs seem to believe that they have gotten something from Obama, and white GOP and Trump voters seem to believe that AAs got a lot from Obama and that Obama took from them to bestow more on AAs. Medicaid expansion (in the states that accepted it) did give something of value to very low and no income people that previously didn’t qualify due to income/asset tests or no qualifying child. That did disproportionately go to POC because POC are disproportionately low/no income. The white people are correct that they got nothing and incorrect that they’re paying for expanded Medicaid.
White people got nothing because the South refused to accept expanded Medicaid.
Or in Kentucky’s case their governor did and they voters chose a successor who vowed to take it away and when he did they were shocked that he actually meant it.
Here’s the expanded Medicaid map. A whole lot of white people in “red states” got their’s and apparently, based on the votes for Trump, want him to take it away from them.
The thing is that people don’t always reward politicians for giving them a goodie. But, they punish those that take away a goodie.
I said “South” not Red State. Look at that line from Mississippi to Virgina. Stars and Bars country. Even Florida that surprises me.
Well, it’s not like voters in the South were ever going to vote Democratic anytime soon anyway. Not getting Obamacare reinforced their resentment towards Democrats not doing anything for them. Plus, anytime people in certain regions can push back on something that could help some of their own but help a large number of AAs, they’re going to be against it.
It’s the red and purple states that took the expanded Medicaid and keep on or switched to voting GOP that are in deep denial. More of the “I got mine; screw everyone else mindset.”
Sounds like old time Republicans.
Then, now, and forever the Republican mindset. Even among those that never got anything but just know they’ll be the next big jackpot lotto winner and they’ll get to keep what they get. (Or maybe not on that last point because most lotto winners squander the money so quickly that it doesn’t take long for them to be back where they were to begin with and sometimes worse.
Yes, by “Old Time” I meant to distinguish from the “movement” Republicans who are not necessarily rich but ultra-concerned with their neighbor’s private business.
They just layered the old-time puritan and racist position on top of the GOP “greed is good” foundation.
I want to add something to my above comment.
Adolph Reed Jr. also used the phrase “…the predictable elevation of process over program.”
This is such a fine, concise précis of the entire system that has been set up by the Clinton/Obama forces on every level!!
“Programs.” The organizations that were supposedly set up to administer said programs have taken over most of the attention and finances that should have been used to ensure the success of the programs that those “processors” were supposed to be processing…with entirely predictable, disastrous results to the programs themselves. The monetization (and thus bureaucratization) of liberalism, in a few words.
You want a perfect example of bureaucracratic rot?
Sure.
The DNC tself.
The Democratic National Committee is supposed to work to ensure the success of the Democratic Party…top to bottom, local, county, state and national… so that so-called “liberal” programs will be passed that will work for the good of all. Instead, it has evolved into a bureaucratic, DC revolving door-staffed enterprise that serves only the gatekeepers of those revolving doors.
And look what happened.
Governmental stalemate on every level under Obama.
The same can be said of Obamacare.
The same can be also be said of financial and banking oversight, Elizabeth Warren’s efforts excepted. (And her much ballyhooed Consumer Financial Protection Bureau will die a quick death under Tyrantasaurus Rex Trump. Bet on it.)
In fact, the same can actually be said of almost every Permanent Government-approved operation, soup to nuts, RatPub or DemRat-instigated and supported, DC janitorial systems right on up to the vast State Department/CIA apparatus. (What? You didn’t know? Almost every CIA chief of station has State Dept. cover. Or is it the other way around? Please…)
A PermaGov mass media headline recently blared about how now that Trump is president, Diane Feinstein (!!!) will be the leader of the “opposition.”
C’mon, now…she is the essence of PermaGov compromise. That’s why she’s lasted so long in big-time DemRat politics.
Senator (D-CA) since 1992
Previous offices: Mayor of San Francisco (1978-1988), San Francisco Supervisor (1970-1978)
Feinstein/Schumer. “Our” leaders. Opposing anything other than fiscal sanity and a reduction of support for Israel?
I don’t think so. Not in the back rooms where stuff really gets done. bet on that as well.
Just look where all of this has gotten us!!!
Up Shit’s Creek with neither a paddle nor a canoe.
And I took heat here…including images of Ron Paul in Confederate gear…for saying that the whole Libertarian/small government thing might be a good idea considering the disastrous results of Big Gov sprawl since Clinton I took office in 1992.
Oh well…
Another day, another WTFU call.
Have a wonderful Turkey Day.
Whichever “turkeys” come to mind.
Later, fellow inmates of the about-to-be-reoganized U. S. Turkey Farm…
AG
Dan Cohen tweet
Glenn:
Yeah, and Dershowitz is cool with Bannon.
Way back when Dershowitz was an icon of left-liberals. So much so that his lectures and books were featured as premiums in Pacifica fundraising drives. So, there I am in the early 1990s sitting the the phone pledge room waiting for the phones to start ringing and the pledges to roll in when the programmer put his latest lecture on air. Within a minute the jaws dropped of all us in the room and then the phones went wild. Not with pledges but irate listeners that couldn’t believe something so despicable was being aired by the station. He got the hook within five minutes. So, he’s been an fascist Israeli-firster for at least well over two decades.
Counterpunch by Vijay Prashad —Last Stand at Standing Rock
Local law enforcement along with the National Guard attempted to clean out the camp last night. Echoes of OWS (but military style equipment took the place of the National Guard in those raids and avoided another Kent State).
The article doesn’t include the opposition by Iowa farmers. The IA GOP state government effectively squelched that.
Would that they had treated Bundy like that.
Thanks — did mean to include that in my comment. Unarmed, peaceful protesters, well, TPTB know how to take care of them. (Kent State may have depressed liberal/left protesters from showing up for a couple of generations. So, other than some initial pushback, the rightwing won that one.)
LEOs will even invent weapons that some liberal allegedly carried to excuse the LEO violence. (Or plant an agent provocateur who is carrying.) But they sure do wimp out when it comes to armed protesters engaging blatantly illegal activities or no legitimate or legal claims wrt the underlying dispute.
A reason why people don’t listen to “experts” – 20 Ways to Stay Fit and Healthy This Thanksgiving.
The “experts” seem to lack the ability to shut up when the stakes are low and people don’t like being hectored when it means they’ll feel deprived if they follow the injunctions and guilt if they don’t. “Happy Thanksgiving.” Take particular pleasure in the foods that you like and only see once a year” should suffice. Overall, it’s one of the healthiest feasts in the American tradition.
The Guardian — Pope Francis cements priests’ power to forgive abortion
A small step. And still casts women as sinners. As they impregnated themselves and are making a choice based on their own, their family’s, and even the sperm donors best interests. Would guess that the anti-abortion Catholic women that have availed themselves of a legal abortion will be the first to seek absolution.
and HIGHLY RECOMMENDED — The Guardian — `Please, I am out of options’: inside the murky world of DIY abortions
Emails to Women on Web:
That gd Hyde Amendment that for forty years the DP hasn’t overturned.
And I’m currently not able to make nice with Planned Parenthood and NARAL for jumping into the 2016 Democratic primary election to support the one with lady parts over the one that was equally strong, if not stronger, on the issue of women being able to access and afford medical attention that they need.
Open Secrets: Planned Parenthood
Total [2016 as of 10/28] Lobbying Expenditures: $857,739
PP contributions: to DNC, PACs, and candidates: $1,328,654. (Hillary got $97,268
Ouside Spending by Planned Parenthood in the 2016 election: $16,214,744 (or approximately 25,000 abortions that PP could have covered instead and more if they were very early term and medication to terminate the pregnancy was appropriate).
I resigned from NARAL because of it.
NPR — Could A Trump Presidency Be Pro-Israel And White Nationalist At The Same Time?
Could NPR have buried its head in the sand for thirty years? Only reason I can figure out as to why they would pose the question as if they don’t have a clue as to the answer. Hint: evangelical Xtrians are pro-Israel (Armageddon requires its existence. White US evangelicals are white nationalists and they supported Trump. A plus, Trump’s sil is white and also in the pro-zionist camp.
Schumer is a piece of work, isn’t he?
Marie, totally OT, but I’d like your take on his slant about why tax breaks for the rich are immaterial to T voters. We constantly get the “don’t vote their economic interests” meme. (Not that either party shows much interest these days unless it can be yoked to a corporate give-away…)
Shiller article
“Those on the downside of rising economic inequality generally do not want government policies that look like handouts. They typically do not want the government to make the tax system more progressive, to impose punishing taxes on the rich, in order to give the money to them. Redistribution feels demeaning. It feels like being labeled a failure. It feels unstable. It feels like being trapped in a relationship of dependency, one that might collapse at any moment.”
“In the twentieth century, communists politicized economic inequality, but they made sure that their agenda could in no way be interpreted as creating alms or charity for the less successful.”
“It is certainly not just in America that people desire a sense of vocational accomplishment, rather than simply money to live on.”
Saw another piece on how static our population has become in the last few decades. Only ones leaving are the educated young for the cities.
It’s somewhat complicated, but at the core I’d say that Democrats haven’t for decades had the ability to articulate all the goodies the working/middle class gets from progressive taxation.
One reason for that failure is the spending choices Democratic politicians are forced to make when tax revenues on the wealthy are cut. The “goodies” that low/middle income people get are not as easily quantified by those people. Not like that for low income and poor people for whom the “goodies” are more a matter of survival. So, everybody loses on the “goodies” that are indifferent to income and class, but those losses are differentially experienced by class.
For example (and I’m broad brushing taxation and spending at the local through federal level because they do interact with each other and taxation/spending mindsets also interact), reduce spending on public transit both in service and equipment maintenance and replacement. Middle income people don’t use it often enough for the cuts to impact them (except in emergency situations and then they scream). Low income people adjust to less service and rundown accommodations, but they can still manage to get by.
Reduce low income housing subsidies and food subsidies, low income become homeless and hungry. Again doesn’t personally impact working/middle class, but Democratic politicians are mindful not to cut so much that it appears cruel to the have nots because the majority of Americans can’t tolerate seeing very high levels of cruelty.
What’s much easier to cut is infrastructure spending and maintenance. And while this is a wk/mid income goodie, it’s not so easy to see the cuts for some time. Cut government loan guarantees and interest rate subsidies for housing purchases, and the wk/mid class would see that if they understood them to be a government benefit. Instead they’ve been led to believe that it’s something an individual earns, and therefore, those that already have aren’t empathetic towards those that can’t get after the cuts are imposed.
Another example, all employer health insurance policies are government subsidized by waiving the taxes on that income. The ACA subsidies for the purchase of insurance extends to others a benefit that others already enjoy and enjoy not because of the largess of their employer but by government. (An accident of history that in multiple ways has contributed to the inefficiency and high cost of our health care system.)